• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

DP-28 Balance

ramboqa.jpg

+1, had me laughing in my chair for quite a bit. xD

It is a bit ridiculous, the thought of having 7 belts hanging off my back with one dragging between my legs as I'm firing randomly at whatever moves.

Funny, but not realistic by any means.
 
Upvote 0
People already leave the DP in the dust the second they unlock the MG-34 for the Soviet MG class. At least this way you could encourage them to use a Soviet LMG.

Needless to say, i don't think enemy weapons was a smart design choice either, as it only further diminishes the uniqueness of the teams, forces even more need for artificial weapon balancing, and makes it even harder to design the maps to create a working asymetrical balance.
 
Upvote 0
why do people think the DP is lesser than the MG34 still??? I think the DP28 is better. I can lead better with it at 100m+ with just a 2 shot burst I get kills consistently. I have even been accused of being a bot! Not sure but I find the DP28 easier to handle. The only drawback is the ammo loadout but that is a minor historical accuracy downfall. I actually think the DP28 needs to be dumbed down cause of its sniping like abilities at long ranges versus the MG34 even when using single shot.
 
Upvote 0
The DP and german MGs represent two very different theories and doctrines for infantry combat. I wish people would start to realize this and stop chatting about artificially balancing things. I play 99% german, and I hate the Mkb and Dual 40 precisely because they are failures at attempting balance, and only give axis a handicap they just frankly DO NOT need. The MG34 on the other hand, should be a beast to it's real form. Perhaps the clear best gun in the game, or at least for those who can properly use it. Unlike other axis weaponry the MGs of the wehrmacht was a real game changer and german units depended entirely on it's deployment. The 34 and 42 were both more than acceptable to be relied on in this manner, as the doctrine persisted until the end of the war. There's little denying that at the squad and small unit levels, the german won the day with thier emphasis on the MG. The fact they lost the war is not due to a lack of sound tactical doctrine, as many here already know.


Thus, I'm not sure people can complain of the supposed ammo disadvantage, the MG34 has a much higher ROF and burns through ammunition quicker. Thus it uses quick change barrels and easy to carry and distribute belts, where as the DP uses giant steel frisbees with only 47 rounds. Which is easier to carry, reload, and which was more effective do you think?


you could increase the speed at which the gunner reloads his weapon. In reality a belt fed reload is always slower than a magazine fed weapon.

Something the germans overcame with starter tabs, and I can assure you even without a tab, the DP is by no means quicker to reload. The pan magazines truly are a pain to reload, imho, and barring that, you still have many less rounds before you have to reload again.

Neither is easier to carry than the other, both are incredibly improbably ammo loads. 250 rounds in a belt is around 4 meters in length, it is a huge stretch already in game to have the MG34 belted with that load, let alone having the gunner carry another 4 meter belt.

Do you know how many times you would have to wrap 4 meters of belting around your torso to not trip over it? Even if it was in a box, how does one hold a box in one hand and a 27 pound MG with a 250 round belt (at least 8 additional pounds) wraped around it in the other? How does that person come into action as quickly as the gunner in game does? It may have been possible if the MG34 had a top mounted sling like the Bren or BAR did which assisted in walking fire, the MG34 (and MG42) have a bottom mounted sling which is of absolutely no use in action because the gun hands upside down.

It is not that the DP28 should have more ammo, the MG34 needs less, starting with a smaller belt. MG34 max ammo should be around 300 rounds at most, either 2x150 round belts or more realsitically 3x 100 round belt (because a 100 round belt can be kept from dragging on the ground without resorting to wraping the belt around the gun or yourself).

If you want to see what 250 rounds look like:
bullets3.JPG


Notice the 50 round belt alone (minus the pully thing) is about 3/4ths the length of the 1 meter long K98.



Again, it is not historical, a gunner did not carry 500 rounds on himself and move and react like the MG34 gunner in game does. He could not reload as quickly, he could not raise and fire as quickly, especially if that additional 250 rounds is in a box (because the rounds in the box are not evne linked into a single belt).

And I don't need to be told how to use the DP, I have a confortable 3 k/d ratio with it and routinely get 40-50 kills a map with the weapon.

This is a real cute post, but you are blinded by your own bias. It's not as if germans just start out with 250rd belts, it's the grand prize of being a hero, a supposed veteran and IC holder. That aside let's move back to the realm of real life...

The german ammo cans actually held 250rd belts of 7,92. A hefty thing to carry, as 3 men were responsible for carrying the bulk of the MG load of over. What was common practice was to have a 50 loaded and wrapped around the mg until you actually see combat and deploy. The reason for this was precisely to be ready to fire without using precious time finnicking with ammo cans and loading large belts. However, once in combat they would simply have loaders open the boxes of munition and help feed 250rd belts.

Something to understand is it takes under 5 seconds of sustained fire to go through a 50rd belt, it takes less than 20 using aimed 5-8 shot bursts as taught. I can assure you that decent mg-sch
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Right, well TL:DR for my above post... I think a 50rd starter belt would be good for spawn, but then have a 250rd belt in reserve on you.


This is at least more plausible than carrying 500 rounds upon your back. This is clearly doable, because if you notice the second belt in sequence as hero is in fact, not a 250rd belt. Yet, 250 rd belts are in fact realistic for use, as I showed earlier.

If you care for my opinions on this or are open to them anyways, this might be interesting to you, ideas I posted for a realism mod:

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=972069&postcount=208

*Make MG barrels last longer.
*Give MG gunners less ammo to start.
*Make teammates give less ammo to Mgers
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
The german ammo cans actually held 250rd belts of 7,92. A hefty thing to carry, as 3 men were responsible for carrying the bulk of the MG load of over. What was common practice was to have a 50 loaded and wrapped around the mg until you actually see combat and deploy. The reason for this was precisely to be ready to fire without using precious time finnicking with ammo cans and loading large belts. However, once in combat they would simply have loaders open the boxes of munition and help feed 250rd belts.
For starters the Germans could not just open the box and feed 250 rounds because (according to my understanding) the ammunition in the box could only be split into two different belts (one 100 rounds and the other 150 rounds) each facing a different direction. Because the 8mm round is wider at the back than just before the neck you can't close the box lid if all the rounds face the same direction. In fact this makes 100 - 150 round belts more plausible than 250 round belts because that was the only way they could be transported in the box. Otherwise you need to take both belts out, flip one over so it faces the same direction as the other, link them, then either spread it back on the ground or stuff it back into the box (which can't be closed again).

Yes in reality there would be an assistant gunner who could add onto the 50 round "ready for action" belt. But you know what, there is a disadvantage to having a loader, you need him with you at all time. Two people are more visible than one, and if the loader gets killed than the gunner loses the ability to have all his ammo. Yet the gunner in game does not suffer from this. He has the benefits of a loader while maintaining the advantages of being a lone infantryman. He can sneak into enemy buildings more easily because he is one man and not two. He can move at his own speed rather than waiting for the loader to catch up. He only has to worry about his own life to maintaining his combat effectiveness, he doesn't have to worry about the loader for assistance.

It makes him self sufficient in a way he was never in reality. And even with your bandaid's for using a 250 round belt, you can't act as easily as the gunner does in game with a 250 round belt around your neck. The gunner in game can burn through that full amount without pause, I'd like to see someone with a belt layered on their neck do that. I'd also like to see someone with a belt layered on their neck go prone and immediately open fire without pause like the gunner in game can. I'd like to see someone with a belt layered on their neck dive forward and immediately open fire. In reality there are things that would stop that, but not in this game.

For someone who told me we should "move back to the realm of real life", it is the MG34 gunner in game you need to tell that to. Because he is not grounded in the realm of real life, he is grounded in a fantasy word where he can run around with 500 rounds of ammo and a 250 round belt hanging form his gun as easily as the level 1 gunner with half that ammo and assault drums could. You can throw out plausible ways all day on how someone *could* do things but the simple fact is the gunner in game does none of these things because he suffers no disadvantages that would come with doing those things.

It's hard to replicate this in the game, and the idea of carrying several meters of belt loaded and dragging the ground is pretty silly, but equally as silly is carrying 100 round belts or 50 round belts exclusively for some balance effect, when such a configuration was beyond rare, despite the unique continueless belt ability had. And if you think about it, it's not all that unrealistic to deploy with such a large belt, as you can clearly see the hero carrying it amongst his shoulders. I would be in favour of a movement mutator for having such excess, but I would first and formost call for the 250rd belt to be his ONLY belt, thus relying on the team for supply, as I mentioned, IRL, 3 men beared the ammo of the mg.
If it can't be replicated in game than a compromise is needed. There is nothing right about giving people all the advantages of a 250 round belt without any of the disadvantages that would come from carrying one. A compromise is a 100 round belt, something that could be conceivably carried by one man without major interference but is not so short that the gunner will blow through the ammo too quickly (like a 50 round belt would be). Nothing else is practical for one man unless we start forcing movement and action limitations on the MG34 gunner. It is just easier to give them a 100 round belt, and quicker too.

As for the "Hero" line, no the belt is unlocked if you grind with the MG34 enough. You could pluasably be in any level for the MG gunner class (ie grind the MG34 on axis than play allied and get the MG34 unlock but not be a hero) and have the belt fed option if your MG34 is level 50. It has nothing to do with the presumed capability of a "hero", you get the huge belt because TWI set a magical kill/point limit when your guy decides to use a belt. The problem is he uses a ridiculously sized one.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Right, well TL:DR for my above post... I think a 50rd starter belt would be good for spawn, but then have a 250rd belt in reserve on you.


This is at least more plausible than carrying 500 rounds upon your back. This is clearly doable, because if you notice the second belt in sequence as hero is in fact, not a 250rd belt. Yet, 250 rd belts are in fact realistic for use, as I showed earlier.

If you care for my opinions on this or are open to them anyways, this might be interesting to you, ideas I posted for a realism mod:

[url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=972069&postcount=208[/URL]


I
 
Upvote 0
It may have been possible if the MG34 had a top mounted sling like the Bren or BAR did which assisted in walking fire, the MG34 (and MG42) have a bottom mounted sling which is of absolutely no use in action because the gun hands upside down.

Good post, one observation though, the MG.34 had a split sling that could be used as a carry handle, keeping the gun the right way up. Gunners were also trained on how to us the sling for assaulting (firing from the hip).

mg34101.JPG


By un-cliping the sling at the back the gunner could loop it over his head and support the barrel while shooting.
 
Upvote 0