I do not think there is poor hit detection.

[Josef Nader]

Quoting myself from the other thread about this:

The reason TWI don't have any answers for us is because we can't reproduce it with any consistency. It's impossible to fix a bug if you don't know how it works.

Until we can replicate the hit detection issue, TWI doesn't stand a chance in hell at fixing it.

It's like if your cell phone shocked you at random intervals for no apparent reason regardless of the circumstances. The manufacturer looked at it and says that they can't figure out why it would do something like that, and you don't know how to make it happen on command so they can figure out how to fix it.

 

[PapaGreg]

The fact is this : Hit detection sucks . anybody who played this game now it : in CQB so bad detection.

Thats not to the player to proof the fact, DEV just have to play in close range to see it. But are they capable to fix it ? i doubt

Anyway, if hit detection isnt fixed . this game will never be played for a long time.

 

[Stahlhelmii]

"nothing is wrong" dev post coming in 3... 2...

Hmmmmm ... no "nothing is wrong" post ... nor any post acknowledging it. Why am I getting the horrible feeling it's just being ignored because they can't fix it?

 

[Colt .45 killer]

Even if they were it woulden't matter, because you should still see the bullets hit a little above target, but there are no impacts at all, no bullets are getting fired there.

Yeah bullets can fail to fire at all, happened all the time in Ost aswell, and it was never more obvious than when tanking, because the tank shells where clearly visible in flight, so when you fired and nothing ever left the barrel, it was undeniable, you could see it wasen't working right.

Sorry to dig this from three days back, but this is really a game changer in finding the problem.

The issue isnt hit reg, it is weapons not firing, which might explain not previously finding it.

 

[Josef Nader]

Hmmmmm ... no "nothing is wrong" post ... nor any post acknowledging it. Why am I getting the horrible feeling it's just being ignored because they can't fix it?

This is what I don't understand. What do you want the devs to do? "Why yes, that doesn't look right!" They'll fix it when they know how to reproduce it. They can't go around to all the threads posting "you guys are right, this shouldn't be happening."

I'd rather they focus on actual bugfixing rather than acknowledging every little bug in the game.

 

[Stahlhelmii]

This is what I don't understand. What do you want the devs to do? "Why yes, that doesn't look right!" They'll fix it when they know how to reproduce it. They can't go around to all the threads posting "you guys are right, this shouldn't be happening."

I'd rather they focus on actual bugfixing rather than acknowledging every little bug in the game.

This "little bug" gets me repeatedly killed every game. FWIW, YES, I want them to acknowledge the bug and commit to trying to fix it. I paid for the game. I'm asking that it work as intended for me. Is that asking too much in your opinion? If it is, then that's tough. I already paid a 25% premium to be a "beta" tester. I didn't pay to be a permanent beta tester or qc consultant for TWI. They released the game without conducting a proper, wide scale beta. This is their fault, and they ought to acknowledge the problem, apologize for it, and commit to fixing it. That's not just called fairness, it's called good business sense.

 

[Golf33]

I recall problems with hit reg at close range in the mod and ROO as well, and they were reported and as far as I know investigated. I don't recall a fix ever being found though and for me personally the problem was never that severe - for others it was much worse. Ijust used to put any weird short range behaviour down to my crappy internet connection, but plenty of players with perfectly good connections saw weird stuff too. It's probably not relevant anyway as RO2 is based on a divergent version of the engine and for all I know uses totally different hit reg systems than ROO and the mod.

One question: does anyone know if RO2 uses the same ballistics and spawned projectiles at close range as at long range? If there's a simpler abstracted model at close range, that could account for problems in close combat that don't occur in medium and long range fire.

The whole thing is complicated by what I think are bugs on the wounding system where hits that should be fatal do no actual damage at all, and by bandaging and slow death systems that make it hard to tell if a shot has registered correctly or not.

 

[Reddog]

One question: does anyone know if RO2 uses the same ballistics and spawned projectiles at close range as at long range? If there's a simpler abstracted model at close range, that could account for problems in close combat that don't occur in medium and long range fire.

You're spot on mate, I've been told by people who have looked at the code that the game actually uses hitscan up to about 20m, then a projectile is spawned at that point to continue on out to long range. Apparently it was also like this in RO1.

I think that this is probably a major component of what is happening with missing bullets at close range.

 

[Lt.PeterStegman]

Best thing is the ground stabbing vid.

Thats such a major effect it should have been cleared out in the pre beta state of the game.

Do they need a science team to reproduce it ?

How can such thing slip through any beta .. seriously how ?

Its not like this game was for free , then id surely understand why its in such a shape.Its like you go and buy a car with missing tires , engine and steering wheel on it.Would you go to your car manufacturer and handshake him for his brave work and be happy if been told that maybe in some time stuff would be fixed and or added ?

When i see such bad work .. i dont know.

 

[Nenjin]

You're spot on mate, I've been told by people who have looked at the code that the game actually uses hitscan up to about 20m, then a projectile is spawned at that point to continue on out to long range. Apparently it was also like this in RO1.

If this is true then it makes a pretty damn good explanation of the straight bullet weirdness you experience. Tonight I was firing my AVT and I had it spew 1/2 of its rounds without hitting the wall, let off the trigger, fired again and suddenly the wall lit up with impacts. I mean....if the hit scan is failing...that means sometimes our bullets are actually appearing on the other side of guys we're shooting at, which would explain why can shoot a guy in the chest at 20m and see the impact on the wall directly behind him.

 

[Josef Nader]

This "little bug" gets me repeatedly killed every game. FWIW, YES, I want them to acknowledge the bug and commit to trying to fix it. I paid for the game. I'm asking that it work as intended for me. Is that asking too much in your opinion? If it is, then that's tough. I already paid a 25% premium to be a "beta" tester. I didn't pay to be a permanent beta tester or qc consultant for TWI. They released the game without conducting a proper, wide scale beta. This is their fault, and they ought to acknowledge the problem, apologize for it, and commit to fixing it. That's not just called fairness, it's called good business sense.

You're confusing them saying "We can't reproduce this" with "we don't care/it's not a problem".

They've been asking us to get videos, pictures, or better yet, circumstances where the hit detection happens.

Yes, it is too much for them to scour the forums and give every user a pat on the head and a glass of milk to reassure them that all the bugs are getting fixed. They didn't respond to 95% of those "FIRST CLICK DOESN'T SHOOT" threads, and bam, they fixed it this last patch.

Have a little confidence. They're working on it, but it's not easy. They don't know how to make it happen on command, so they can't be sure how it works. I'd rather they spend time re-reading lines of code than reading the forums.

 

[Stahlhelmii]

You're confusing them saying "We can't reproduce this" with "we don't care/it's not a problem".

They've been asking us to get videos, pictures, or better yet, circumstances where the hit detection happens.

Yes, it is too much for them to scour the forums and give every user a pat on the head and a glass of milk to reassure them that all the bugs are getting fixed. They didn't respond to 95% of those "FIRST CLICK DOESN'T SHOOT" threads, and bam, they fixed it this last patch.

Have a little confidence. They're working on it, but it's not easy. They don't know how to make it happen on command, so they can't be sure how it works. I'd rather they spend time re-reading lines of code than reading the forums.

Well, here's why I don't have "confidence." [URL="http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=938319&postcount=20"][URL="http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=938319&postcount=20"][url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=938319&postcount=20[/URL][/URL][/URL]

This has been widedly reported since early in beta, yet they STILL refused to acknowledge it. "We can't be certain it's actually a problem if we don't have hard evidence of it's existence." Well, now they HAVE that hard evidence and -- suddenly -- they're dead silent on the issue. They haven't even acknowledged the evidence. Why???

I mean, really, what is THAT?

 

[Kreon]

I am pretty sure I never had a problem with hit detection. I'm not denying that there is a problem for some people but if the devs say they have a problem with reproducing this problem I believe them.

The funny thing is: In some of the videos I've seen, you can see, by taking a closer look, that most of these guys are just shooting around their victims like a knife thrower. And if they hit they hit body parts like arms or legs.
Add a bad ping and some will misinterpret it as bad hit detection.

 

[Grobut]

Sorry to dig this from three days back, but this is really a game changer in finding the problem.

The issue isnt hit reg, it is weapons not firing, which might explain not previously finding it.

That's part of the problem, and in the vid in question that is definately what's happening, as there are no impacts there at all. But, there's also a lot of reports of people hearing the impact sound, or even seeing an impact on the wall behind the target, but the target was never hurt, so it's not the only problem.

So it may be that there are 2 problems, one with shots sometimes failing to fire (which is the same problem that also existed in Ost), and one were hits sometimes won't register at clouse range (this i think is new to Ro2, it has a more complex damage model, and it's certainly not unthinkable that it may have problems, the existince of 2 problems would also explain why more people seem to notice it in Ro2 than they did in Ost).

You're spot on mate, I've been told by people who have looked at the code that the game actually uses hitscan up to about 20m, then a projectile is spawned at that point to continue on out to long range. Apparently it was also like this in RO1.

I think that this is probably a major component of what is happening with missing bullets at close range.

Correct, this system was put in place to cut down on projectile spawns (hitscan requires fewer calculations than spawning a projectile with bullet drop physics, and there would allways be shots fired below 20m where there's no reason to calculate all that data anyway, so it was put in for optimization), and it has long been suspected to be the culprit of this bug.

But sadly, whilst video evidence of the bug has been presented over the years, nobody has been able to repeat it reliably or give any indication as to why it happens, so it seems we're no clouser to a fix.

 

[Yellonet]

I've been playing 1280x1024 (4:3) since release, and I've experienced this since release.

That's 5:4, not 4:3.

 

[Josef Nader]

Well, here's why I don't have "confidence." http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=938319&postcount=20http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=938319&postcount=20http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=938319&postcount=20[url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=938319&postcount=20[/URL]

This has been widedly reported since early in beta, yet they STILL refused to acknowledge it. "We can't be certain it's actually a problem if we don't have hard evidence of it's existence." Well, now they HAVE that hard evidence and -- suddenly -- they're dead silent on the issue. They haven't even acknowledged the evidence. Why???

I mean, really, what is THAT?

Yes, please! We are completely unable to reproduce this particular issue in the office. We can't be certain it's actually a problem if we don't have hard evidence of it's existence.

The wording is bad, I'll give you that, but he means that they can't be sure if it's a problem with the programming until someone can give them some circumstances. They don't know if it's packet loss due to weak servers, latency issues, or a problem with the code. They can't fix the first two, and they can't be sure it's the third until they can reproduce it in-house.

Trust me, when dealing with something as complex as a game, it's not just a matter of "run around till it happens to you." You have to figure out exactly what variables are causing the glitch, and exactly what values are giving you those glitches, and -why- you're getting those values. It's not an easy thing to do, -especially- when your dealing with something as massive and labyrinthine as a game.

So yeah, the video may look fishy (especially the prone stab, which I imagine is going to be fixed in an upcoming patch, as that -is- easily reproducible), but it doesn't give the devs anything to work off of. It's just the glitch as the player sees it, not a set of circumstances they can replicate and study in their offices.

 

[Stahlhelmii]

LOL, I just got out of a server in which I kept chest shooting an MG34 Rambo with a semi auto from close range, nothing registered and he ruled 2 straight games hipshooting people who have clearly hit him repeatedly.

So, how is it that someone can run around like COD accurately hipshooting a light machine gun, and ADS'd center chest shots from 5 or 10 feet don't even register as a hit? God, this is just maddening!

 

[ComeAndSee]

It's really getting tiredsome when somebody is IN YOUR FACE and you bayonet them, but nothing happens and they blow you away.

Also, I've camped hallways and shot somebody 3 times in the torso and they popped me with 1 shot with a pistol from 20 yards out. wtf?

 

[Reddog]

This is funny because what's happening here is exactly the same merry-go-round we've had on this issue since the mod and on through RO1. It works like this;

- People notice weird instances of bullets not appearing/not doing damage and report it.
-TWI says they have no evidence of this happening and that for them to look at it we need evidence.
- People post videos of the bug occuring in the forums.
- TWI says they can't reproduce the issue and therefore can't confirm it exists.
- As it's an intermittent issue noone can reproduce it on demand therefore nothing is fixed and TWI never admits there's a problem.

That same sequence of events is playing out again here for RO2 and I predict nothing will happen.

 

[mr.sev]

I've started experimenting with Fraps to try and capture some of these CQB fail moments in video. I'm one of the lucky ones who can get around 90FPS with Ultra/High on 1920x1080 (crossfired ATI6970s). When I start recording, there's a significant drop. I'll continue to tweak and try to get something.

What would really help is a /demo or /record command. This would enable people to record each match and replay/fraps record it on-demand (rather than constantly record with Fraps).

As a general question - what are the recommended settings for Fraps recording in RO2? Do you recommend turning down settings? Recording to second disk? Locking FPS in-game? Max-FPS recording (in Fraps) to 30/40/50? Enabling 'stat fps'?