MG34 Belt Fed or Saddle Drum?

[DiedTrying]

Just got to use the saddle drum extensively (My stats glitched and my mg34 finally progressed past level 13 to level 28)

I don't like it. It feels awkward. the 75 rounds is nice and all though

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

I love how say one thing and then immediately say the opposite.

Its like you cancelled yourself out lol


If they were gonna add stupid s***, they might as well have just added stupid s*** for all the guns

Hmm... problem is that the saddle drum and ZF41 both existed, which means I can't really have been contradicting myself.

If a weapon didn't have any extra equipment available in reality, then it shouldn't get it ingame either, that's what I said. The MG34 & MKb42 however both did have extra equipment available in reality, but like I pointed out they shouldn't have added stuff like the saddle drum for the MG34 or the ZF41 for the MKb42, because both of these were extremely rare additions to these two weapons. The MG34 was almost never fitted with a saddledrum, and the Mkb42 was almost never fitted with a ZF41 scope.

So what should they have done ? Well it's simple really:

1.) Give the MG34 a belt upgrade at lvl 25 from the 50 round drum to a 100 round belt, and then maybe a 150 round belt at lvl 50.
2.) Give the Mkb42 a bayonet at lvl 25 and then thats it.

 

[Jammybee]

I think there needed to be a line drawn when it comes to 'cool but bloody rare' stuff. And RO2 kind of steps over that line. It seems to me that TWI kind of resented that they set it in Stalingrad and couldn't put in all the cool late war/rare stuff.

When it comes to balance AND realism, does the MG34 need saddle drum and/or belt? No, not really. One wasn't infantry issue and the other is a bit silly for 1 man to be using.

However, if they decided to make the MG34 a crew served weapon with a belt, then this succeeds in both criteria. The gunner wouldn't be rambo with a belt of ammo slung over his arms and it would require a second player (possibly with some sort of quick-time thing to avoid stoppages) making up for the increased fire-power. The mg34 assault drum and the dp28 would then have their own niche of rapid response MGs.

Ah, to dream....

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

The MG34 can be fired with a belt by a single person, even wit the belt just hanging freely. BUT, if you want make absolutely sure that you don't get those irritating feed stoppages then you have to hold the belt with the left hand.

And it's not like seeing a machiegunner running around with belts swung over his shoulders would ruin immersion somehow, esp. seeing as it wasn't that uncommon a practice in reality:

[Notice the ammunition this guy is using, that's a whole belt of high pressure Luftwaffe incendiary B-Patr.-V rounds ]

 

[FBOTheLiuetenant]

Having played with the saddle drum I have a bit of feedback. I'm not a fan of the saddle drum from a rarity standpoint, but I do like that it complicates barrel changes. Perhaps there will be a trade-off when using the 250 round belt, maybe something along the lines of effecting hip-firing. This only means we need to ability to choose our upgrades even more.

 

[Gaizokubanou]

I didn't know about the bullet feed problem of using belt fed bullets.

That just gave me an idea. What if default was belt fed of 150 rounds (max 250 if someone give you more ammo when you were maxed), with upgrade to drum@25 and saddle@50, with both drums allowing MG34 users to use iron sight without setting up the bipads? Iron sight without bipads would cause massive recoil of course, so it would mostly be defensive or close range. Also it makes sense to me that now your hand is free from holding up the belt, it could be used to hold the gun up for iron sight.

I'm assuming that upgrades would be selectable in the future. This way, upgrade to MG34 would truly be a sidegrade; default for maximum fire support, use upgrade to help out on more mobile attacks.

 

[Jammybee]

The MG34 can be fired with a belt by a single person, even wit the belt just hanging freely. BUT, if you want make absolutely sure that you don't get those irritating feed stoppages then you have to hold the belt with the left hand.]

Those are all propaganda/static photos. How long would the set up animation be in RO2 if the gunner had to sling it over his shoulder bend down pick up his multiple ammo boxes, run off dropping it occasionally because hes only got 1 hand on his gun. Then when he gets to where he wants, puts down the ammo, unshoulders the gun, starts feeding the ammo through. Then is finally ready to fire.

That gunner would be slapped very hard by his NCO for wasting time and endangering the weapon.

Assault drums were made for a reason. This game needs less unrealistic stuff, not more.

 

[Forssen]

The MG34 can be fired with a belt by a single person, even wit the belt just hanging freely. BUT, if you want make absolutely sure that you don't get those irritating feed stoppages then you have to hold the belt with the left hand.

To note though it's not the best idea to let the belt slide in your hand and defeats most of the purpose holding it like that to begin with, this limits the lengths of your bursts a bit. Not a big problem though since you can easily have 50 rounds between your hand and the MG without any increasing risk of jam.

 

[bas]

The 250 rounds weren't stored in a continious belt in the ammo cans anyway. The taper of the 8mm round makes it impossible to have all 250 rounds pointing in the same direction.

To get past this problem the ammo was split into two belts, 150 round and 100 rounds which were orientated to opposite sides of the can.

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

I don't see any problem with a machine gunner running around with a 150 round belt slung over his shoulders, but ofcourse it would be pretty silly running around with a box in one hand and a machine gun in the other, but that's never something I suggested either.

Anyway by the pictures I merely wanted to point out that an MG34 or MG42 could easily be operated without anyone having to hold the belt. That the MG assistant usually held the belt was simply to prevent any potential feed stoppages, such as the belt getting caught up in something.

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

1:46 min:
Amazing WW2 footage ( good quality) - YouTube

 

[bas]

1:46 min:
Amazing WW2 footage ( good quality) - YouTube

Although its difficult to be certain I'd say thats a 50 round belt. As the war progressed, the use of assault drums became less common.

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

Although its difficult to be certain I'd say thats a 50 round belt. As the war progressed, the use of assault drums became less common.

Might be.

Here's a guy shooting a 100 round belt, standing even:
MG42 Full Auto Belt Fed - Good Shooter - YouTube

 

[shadowmoses]

The concept of the saddle mag being in this game is a joke. These things weren't even issued to infantry past 41 and after that they changed the 34's back to belt fed. It's beyond me why TWI didn't just give you a 250rnd belt instead... That would be far more fun and far more realistic.

The last thing this SMG plagued, bolt-action turned run and gun game needs is more automatic fire running around these tiny battlefields. I don't think there are really any places in any of the maps outside of commissar's house that allow the MG to fire anywhere close to it's full effective range... which leads me to believe that they did this to give the battlefield more automatic gun fire flying around. Because god knows how little these maps and game-play features (ones that allow for every weapon to have scoped vision) cater to strategical MG placement.

The only reason I can see for them putting this in the game is for CoD 'Cool factor'.

 

[Taggerung]

100 round belts were the most common for infantry squads to use. It can be easily draped around your neck and then tucked into your y-straps or belt so it doesn't fly around. The standard inf squad would have an AG with the MG, who was the ammo carrier/assistant gunner, and not only would he have 1-2 cans of ammunition, but the rest of the squad usually had belts of ammo draped around their necks as well (Depending on supplies of course). The belt doesn't cause any more issues for feeding than the drums did either! The drums kept the belts from getting dirty but had a whole host of issues themselves, and for a suppressive weapon, the drums were shunned in anything but fixed/aa positions. You almost NEVER see them being used by infantry units (They were much harder to carry around than belts)

That being said. I have only hauled around an MG34 with a belt one time, and the gun kept jamming (Because of the gun, not the belt...gun was put together by an idiot), but I have done exactly what people are saying caused jamming/increased time to deploy with an MG42 and a 100 round belt, but without all the problems you guys are talking about, and done this around 12 times now. All you do is wrap it around the gun once, and flip it over once you are deployed. The belt also makes for faster reloads than the drum too.

Speaking of the MG34/42. Why the hell does the animation show a disintegrating belt?? The ammo belt was in 50 round sections and that's the only place they would break apart at. They were not designed like US ammo belts where each around held a section together!

 

[FBOTheLiuetenant]

I'm just happy the Hero MG model has a belt of ammo wrapped around his shoulders.

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

I'm just happy the Hero MG model has a belt of ammo wrapped around his shoulders.

You got pictures?

Would love to see a picture of the ingame belt fed MG34 as-well.

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

100 round belts were the most common for infantry squads to use. It can be easily draped around your neck and then tucked into your y-straps or belt so it doesn't fly around. The standard inf squad would have an AG with the MG, who was the ammo carrier/assistant gunner, and not only would he have 1-2 cans of ammunition, but the rest of the squad usually had belts of ammo draped around their necks as well (Depending on supplies of course). The belt doesn't cause any more issues for feeding than the drums did either! The drums kept the belts from getting dirty but had a whole host of issues themselves, and for a suppressive weapon, the drums were shunned in anything but fixed/aa positions. You almost NEVER see them being used by infantry units (They were much harder to carry around than belts)

That being said. I have only hauled around an MG34 with a belt one time, and the gun kept jamming, but I have done exactly what people are saying caused jamming/increased time to deploy with an MG42 and a 100 round belt, but without all the problems you guys are talking about, and done this around 12 times now. All you do is wrap it around the gun once, and flip it over once you are deployed. The belt also makes for faster reloads than the drum too.

That's the point I've been trying to stress, the only reason for holding belt is to keep it from getting caught in something. You can easily and reliably fire the weapon without having to hold the belt and just having it hang freely, but the chance is there that it might get caught up in something.

Funny how you experienced those jams with the MG34 though, and then none with the MG42. I've seen MG34s being fired with a 100 round belt plenty of times without any issues before, the belt just lying across the ground. But ofcourse they occasionally jam, just like any other MG.

Speaking of the MG34/42. Why the hell does the animation show a disintegrating belt?? The ammo belt was in 50 round sections and that's the only place they would break apart at. They were not designed like US ammo belts where each around held a section together!

Huh ? I haven't noticed that, I only see cartridges flying out, I haven't noticed any belt segments flying around. And IIRC, the belt ingame looks exactly like this:

Which would make it correct.

A link to the loading procedure: http://www.gunpics.net/german/mg34/mgbelt.html

 

[sturmfuhrer]

Good posts Unus Offa, Unus Nex, totally agree.

Sturm.

 

[Forssen]

A link to the loading procedure: http://www.gunpics.net/german/mg34/mgbelt.htmlhttp://www.gunpics.net/german/mg34/mgbelt.html

Wouldn't it be better to pull the "cooking handle" back before putting the belt on so you can have that last bullet on the belt without any problem. Or maybe that doesn't work on the mg34.

Does anyone have a clip of a belt reload in-game? Or can't you reload when you use the belt?

I still think the main advantage of not using a drum for your belt should be faster reloads since you don't have to remove anything. Even a 50 round belt would then for sure be better than the 50 round drum and it would be more of a tactical choice whether you want to use it or the saddle thing. Since the current one is a 250 round belt a 100 round belt would probably be a more realistic change.

EDIT: Know when I think about it the reload animation obviously looks like it does for the stationary mg.