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LMG Hip-Firing

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#41
Ossius said:
As an almost pure MG user I have to say that hip firing the MG takes a lot of skill and is something I never use outside of clearing individual rooms with one guy in it.

Most of the time my results from hipfiring the MG lead me to "cut off" the enemy at the legs since the MG is so low slung. It normally takes 4 bullets to drop them and most of the time I get injured in the process. It is almost always better to have my pistol out, as I can shoot a target with moderate success at 75m but have no hope to hipfire my MG at that range.
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What he said.
 
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#43
gyps said:
But it gets a bit silly when you have a guy with an MG never deploying it just using it as a auto weapon with less recoil than the mp40 etc and more bullits
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Oh please. When you exaggerate you just make yourself look unreliable and biased. And people will ignore you. "less recoil than the mp40"? I don't think so.

This thread is something of a mess. People calling for MG's to be nerfed to oblivion!!!11oneoneone. All because they are moderately good from the hip? And yes, I said moderately. Because as handy as they are in a pinch, they're still not remotely as useful for close range as a PPSh/MP40/MKB.

You have to ask yourself why people are using the MG34 in this fashion. The answer isn't because it's better than the SMG's/assault rifle for clearing rooms. The reason is because using it in its primary manner, deployed, is often less effective in game. The reasons for this have been debated about enough in other threads so I won't repeat it here.

But if you reduced the effectiveness of hip firing for MG's, it wouldn't make the game any more realistic. And it certainly wouldn't make the game more fun. All it would do is make an already underpowered class even more underpowered. And then no-one would use the MG's at all in the small urban maps that dominate in Stalingrad.

The changes the MG's need are to do with deployed usage, not hip firing.
 
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#44
DIRTY_THUG said:
We should be able to use sights on our MGs without the bipod. The quirks however would be increased recoil, just like it is firing from the hip, and perhaps using iron sights could drain stamina so you can't walk around an entire map with the sights in your face.
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That is the least realistic solution to a non-existant problem. Hip firing LMG's was doctrine, and isn't especially effective in-game without a @!#$ton of practice.
 
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#45
El_Swine said:
So we should be able to move around and hip fire with the MG42 too.
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I'm gonna disagree with that one to a point. While I think MGs need should firing ability, the problem revolves around belt fed weapons. You can not reliably one man hip shoot with a long MG belt (and we got 250 round ones in this game). In RO1 the distinction was made between the MG34 and 42 in that the 34 had a magazine of sorts and could hip shoot, the MG42 had a belt and could not.

With a short belt, yeah it is quite possible to should shoot as the videos show. But that is, what, a 50 round belt in there. As a previous poster stated, common practice of a loader is to add on to the belt when a MG goes prone, and to detach what can be removed when moving. Means the belt doesn't drag along the ground and get dirty which can cause jamming. There was a reason assault drum magazines were used, it was to make the weapon useable by one guy in the assault role.

Unless we can get some kind of representation of removing excess rounds when moving positions or with a dedicated loader, I am against giving belt fed MG34s or MG42s hip and shoulder firing ability. Too OP to have 250 rounds of room clearing ability. Assault magazines on the other hand, MG34s and MG42s can hipfire to their hearts content.
 
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#47
Nebelkind said:
To anyone who thinks shouldering an MG34 is a feasable idea, consider that the M249 weighs 10lb less, and is considered "Too heavy" by the USMC, leading to it currently being phased out in favor of a Piston AR platform, which should weight about 7-8lb less than that.
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Do you know WHY they consider it "Too Heavy"? (If they even do, I'm trusting your uncited reference.) Having actually shouldered automatic and belt fed weapons heavier than an MG34, I can tell you their interest is not that it is tiring or hard for the soldier to carry or aim the weapon, but is far more likely that they rather 7-8lbs more ammunition to go along with the weapon.


I've fired a 300 round .30 cal belt from the shoulder and on the move. Mildly awkward, but not impossible or even hard. Drape most of the belt around your shoulders, leaving yourself a slack of 30 or so rounds at a time. Pause to readjust and draw out more slack as needed.
 
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#49
Dayve said:
You missed the point. A man who's had 2 hours sleep out of 48 and is about 3 days away from starving to death probably can't run around with a heavy machine gun firing from the iron sights and actually being any use with it.
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And yet they can pitch grenades, spend the whole afternoon sprinting from cover to cover during an attack, and have no ill effects aiming any other weapon and all that?


Would you like soldiers to randomly spawn huddled over, begging for their mothers, and then having enough time to slowly crawl to a ditch where they can die from starvation and exposure?
 
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#50
Dayve said:
You missed the point. A man who's had 2 hours sleep out of 48 and is about 3 days away from starving to death probably can't run around with a heavy machine gun firing from the iron sights and actually being any use with it.
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You will go insane from lack of sleep before being unable to lift and maintain 30 ~ 35lbs object on shoulder height. And I'm being generous with the weight here. Gun itself is 26.7lbs and I just gave you 10lbs as weight of the drum mag, which I think would be lighter but even at 10lbs of ammo weight it's not something that you need to be in your best shape of your life to do.

And this is pre-encirclement Stalingrad, not Leningrad. We are talking about reasonably supplied soldiers, not starving militias.

You wouldn't want to play a game where you take control over people who are 3 days away from starving to death, because they wouldn't be able to hold ANY gun in this game without insane sway and zero recoil control. Recoil of some guns would probably break their shoulder bones if they are that close to death through starvation.
 
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#51
Alright, fair enough, but this seems to be turning in to a thread about people who aren't at all interested in realism giving psuedo evidence to support their claims, just like the Mkb lovers who'll make every excuse possible to argue that the Mkb is realistic in such huge numbers mid-1942.

Fine, if it's possible to fire from hip and shoulder then it should be allowed. I'm sure they did it during the battle in real life back then, but I can't see it being very often. Sure, if they get caught when moving with it from position to position and have no choice but to fire from the hip then go for it, but as I see people completely shunning any slither of realism in favour of getting another kill, I don't want to see firing from the hip SO accurate and effective that nobody wants to use the support machine guns in the way they were used 99% of the time in reality... which is deployed at a good position showering the enemy with bullets, not used like a ****ing terminator.
 
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#52
I love the cute little training wheels on the Sg-43. It looks like you can take it on a stroll down the park until you run into a column of German's. Also, that dude in those videos must be rich as ****!!! I'm looking at the gun magazine I just got in the mail today and a MG-42 costs $3299! Every hundred rounds is $50 too.
 
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#53
Instead of nerfing the hip firing accuracy, which I disagree with, I think it's about right, just add weapon collision, that would make it a ***** to run around with a long barrel indoors, as it would IRL. Add a little inertia to the weapon and player and you wouldn't be able to move like you're holding an SMG on rails either.

I'd like to be able to ADS while prone but not deployed. It's such a PITA to be prone with an enemy running down on you and seeing a column of:
"Can't deploy here"
"Can't deploy here"
"Can't deploy here"
"Can't deploy here"

And all you guys who pointed out my "40lbs" is incorrect are right, I meant 30 but mistyped. Including ammo....
 
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#54
LugNut said:
Instead of nerfing the hip firing accuracy, which I disagree with, I think it's about right, just add weapon collision, that would make it a ***** to run around with a long barrel indoors, as it would IRL.
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This is probably the best solution. It would still be formidable weapon because of high rate of fire and good penetration through wall, but you would no longer have the maneuverability of smaller guns in tight space, which is completely realistic.
 
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#55
LordKhaine said:
Oh please. When you exaggerate you just make yourself look unreliable and biased. And people will ignore you. "less recoil than the mp40"? I don't think so.

This thread is something of a mess. People calling for MG's to be nerfed to oblivion!!!11oneoneone. All because they are moderately good from the hip? And yes, I said moderately. Because as handy as they are in a pinch, they're still not remotely as useful for close range as a PPSh/MP40/MKB.

You have to ask yourself why people are using the MG34 in this fashion. The answer isn't because it's better than the SMG's/assault rifle for clearing rooms. The reason is because using it in its primary manner, deployed, is often less effective in game. The reasons for this have been debated about enough in other threads so I won't repeat it here.

But if you reduced the effectiveness of hip firing for MG's, it wouldn't make the game any more realistic. And it certainly wouldn't make the game more fun. All it would do is make an already underpowered class even more underpowered. And then no-one would use the MG's at all in the small urban maps that dominate in Stalingrad.

The changes the MG's need are to do with deployed usage, not hip firing.
Click to expand...


^^^^^ THIS GUY GETS IT!


Seriously people SHUT UP. You want to nerf the already least-played role why? Because some MG'er forced into hip-firing actually killed your sorry asses?

:rolleyes:
 
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#56
El_Swine said:
I had basic field training with the MG42 in the Norwegian army.
The MG we used was identical to the WW2 version except it used 7,62 rounds instead of the original 7,98
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Incorrect, there are changes; the most notable one being that it fires at a fixed 1200rpm unlike the MG42.

In fact there were different weight bolts available for MG42 crews that let them select one that suited their RPM needs, 1200rpm being the favoured one. The MG42 could however reach 1800rpm with the lightest bolt and after having heated up considerably.

El_Swine said:
Our Sgt did exactly the same as in the Youtube clip, firing from the hip and shoulder.
It was awesome to watch him cut down a small forest :eek:
So we should be able to move around and hip fire with the MG42 too.
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Yes, hipfiring and shouldering a MG3 is perfectly reasonable as I've done it myself several times, but for reasons above and the fact that the MG42 is chambered in a different caliber you can't autoassume that it is just as easy with a MG42. Granted it is in within reason to do so due to the similarities.
 
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#57
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#59
Well i have seen a lot of run and gun MG players already, i dont think it should be allowed as *feature* in this game and it should be made more diffcult to do in same way.

Primary role of MG should be to supress enemy and help team. Good machine gunner is invaluable in any match as well as good commander is running and gunning is just not RO style, leave it to PPSH :D.
 
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