Too many SMG's and Semi-auto?

[NoxNoctum]

Yes this site has a lot of excellent information on the makeup of German units during the war. He's a 1941 infantry company. As you can see G41s aren't even mentioned. You have to find the strength reports for specific units to get that info:

http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn131c1feb41.htm

(look under "Zug"---basically the equivalent to a platoon)

Only one G41 would be realistic. But up to 3 would be "acceptable" to me. Having 6-7 guys with them though is just idiotic, not just because it's unhistorical, but bad for gameplay IMO. In a way the semi auto is the "uber" weapon in the game, since it can best both bolts and SMGs in both close and long range combat. I have no problem with a few players having "better" weapons but I do have a problem with so many people having them.

 

[Derpus]

Btw, I'd like to add that I think it is rather silly that the elite rifleman also gets a choice of SMG.

I agree; I think elite rifleman should not have SMGs available to them. At least not in hardcore realims.

 

[Leo4444]

Yes this site has a lot of excellent information on the makeup of German units during the war. He's a 1941 infantry company. As you can see G41s aren't even mentioned. You have to find the strength reports for specific units to get that info:

[url]http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn131c1feb41.htm[/URL]

(look under "Zug"---basically the equivalent to a platoon)

Only one G41 would be realistic. But up to 3 would be "acceptable" to me. Having 6-7 guys with them though is just idiotic, not just because it's unhistorical, but bad for gameplay IMO. In a way the semi auto is the "uber" weapon in the game, since it can best both bolts and SMGs in both close and long range combat. I have no problem with a few players having "better" weapons but I do have a problem with so many people having them.

I agree now we gotta persuade everyone else

 

[Josef Nader]

Which may be hard, 'cause I don't seem to have any problem killing semi-auto's with my trusty bolt. I mean, you only need one bullet to kill someone anyway. If I miss, d'oh well.

 

[greenlemonade]

The problem isnt the number really. It's the fact that if there are 14 rifle slots and 4 assault slots and 3 squad leaders and you have 7 people on your team, a large amount of the time, you will have 7 SMGers.


How to solve this I dont know. Make the classes scale to the number of people on server?

Always play on a full server?

 

[Josef Nader]

How to solve this I dont know. Make the classes scale to the number of people on server?

I'mokaywiththis.jpeg

 

[xidio]

Wow.
Why dont you go make your own servers then make a couple of tweaks: Go.

This is a game, not a Stalingrad War Simulator.
This game would be rather dead if there was 1 marksman, 2 semi-auto, 2 smg, 1 mg and the rest being rifleman. Ofcourse the RO1 vets would love it, but everyone else wouldnt.

There shouldnt be any restrictions in "Casual" mode.
But in "Realism" then go ahead.

 

[TheGoden]

Wow.
Ofcourse the RO1 vets would love it, but everyone else wouldnt.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but the RO1 vets are the reason you're playing RO2. They are what made RO what it is. If there is anyone that Tripwire should be listening to it's the fans that made Tripwire what they are.

 

[greenlemonade]

How to implement is now the question.

Actually, the game should wait a bit longer than it does when changing maps. I often finish loading to find that the battle has begun, and I dont have a slow system. I hardly ever have time to choose a squad and adjust the loadout weapons.


Ok, I think I got it:

During the "team/role" selection phase, the roles show up without limits (similar to Fire fight) with a message that says "Bid for Squad role".
After about 15 seconds or so, the game decides who gets what class based on your selection and HONOR. Those with "field promotions" win over anyone. Honor ties are decided randomly.

So this way, you have realistic squad composition. The more experianced players get first choice of class (like Commander ). And we all get a bit more time before the round starts pre maturely.




Example:
10 player wait for the next map to start. As it loads, 5 players choose Axis. They are presented with the Role bidding screen and select their favorite roles.
3 Choose assault. Honors: 4 8 10
1 chooses squad leader: Honor: 12
1 chooses Commander: Honor: 25

The game determines that a group of 5 can only have:
2 Assaults
1 Squad leader
unlimited rifleman


The 10 and 8 honors win Assault Roles.
The 25 wins squad leader since there is no commander.
The 4 and 12 are riflemen.





This isn't hard to imagine on a larger scale and simpler to figure out than it looks. You just start with the highest honor or field promotions and go down the list giving them whats available.


This would obviously be a feature not in by release, but I'd love to see it a couple months from now.

 

[grothesj2]

Wow.
Why dont you go make your own servers then make a couple of tweaks: Go.

This is a game, not a Stalingrad War Simulator.
This game would be rather dead if there was 1 marksman, 2 semi-auto, 2 smg, 1 mg and the rest being rifleman. Ofcourse the RO1 vets would love it, but everyone else wouldnt.

There shouldnt be any restrictions in "Casual" mode.
But in "Realism" then go ahead.

Rather dead? What are you talking about? lol

 

[Nebfer]

Yes this site has a lot of excellent information on the makeup of German units during the war. He's a 1941 infantry company. As you can see G41s aren't even mentioned. You have to find the strength reports for specific units to get that info:

[url]http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn131c1feb41.htm[/URL]

(look under "Zug"---basically the equivalent to a platoon)

Only one G41 would be realistic. But up to 3 would be "acceptable" to me. Having 6-7 guys with them though is just idiotic, not just because it's unhistorical, but bad for gameplay IMO. In a way the semi auto is the "uber" weapon in the game, since it can best both bolts and SMGs in both close and long range combat. I have no problem with a few players having "better" weapons but I do have a problem with so many people having them.

The Kstn is dated to Febuary 1941, before the Germans invaded Russia, so it would not show them any way, and in any case the Germans did not always identify what kind of weapon that slot used.

The only issue of plane for semis was 19 per company, though I have no idea how accurst that was, and it was for the G43.

Supposedly the Russians wanted at lest 1 per squad.

Both sides at this time would been issuing 5 SMGs per platoon and 4 LMGs (though the Russians where starting to issue 6 LMGs per platoon), semi autos if available would likely have been at one per squad as well.

Though Assault partys would of been given more SMGs for their roles.

 

[Hansael]

would have liked to see bolted weapons only maps... The problem we have at the moment is people with smgs feel invincible, and run around like Rambo, or should I say cod people..

 

[Kohlrabi]

Production figures for g41 were very small (<150'000), compared to the later-war g43 (roughly 400'000), making it a very rare weapon.
However, it would make sense if the germans used some captured svt-40's on the eastern front, since they captured a lot of those weapons in the first year of Barbarossa (could provide a source later).

 

[Rumo]

would have liked to see bolted weapons only maps...

I hope we will have some "Bolt Nights" again as we had in RO: Ost.
They were really fun.

 

[Leo4444]

Wow.
Why dont you go make your own servers then make a couple of tweaks: Go.

This is a game, not a Stalingrad War Simulator.
This game would be rather dead if there was 1 marksman, 2 semi-auto, 2 smg, 1 mg and the rest being rifleman. Ofcourse the RO1 vets would love it, but everyone else wouldnt.

There shouldnt be any restrictions in "Casual" mode.
But in "Realism" then go ahead.

You really dont know anything about server options do you? If it was that easy this thread would be useless, just like your post.

 

[Rrralphster]

One thing I don know is that TWI always took great care in creating realistic units with realistic loadouts.
I don't see any reason why they would have stepped away from this approach.

The number of classes is supposed to scale with the number of players.
If this isn't working at the moment is because there are probably more important things to do (crashes, optimization etc.) then adjusting/fixing an element that only adds flavour.

TWI never intended to bring ballance in exact team equality concerning the weapons of units.

I for one don't see a problem, historically speaking, about loadouts.
Atleast the Russians had whole regiments armed with PPSh's.

 

[Leo4444]

One thing I don know is that TWI always took great care in creating realistic units with realistic loadouts.
I don't see any reason why they would have stepped away from this approach.

The number of classes is supposed to scale with the number of players.
If this isn't working at the moment is because there are probably more important things to do (crashes, optimization etc.) then adjusting/fixing an element that only adds flavour.

TWI never intended to bring ballance in exact team equality concerning the weapons of units.

I for one don't see a problem, historically speaking, about loadouts.
Atleast the Russians had whole regiments armed with PPSh's.

I know about the regiments armed with ppsh's but something nobody has brought up if any of these regiments were in Stalingrad. Also historically speaking smgs/semi users did not outnumber bolt action like they do now. I really do hope they address this issue when they finished with the others atleast for realism servers. That was the whole point of realism vs relaxed to keep everyone happy.

 

[The_GAP_Trixie]

The issue is not in the current limits, but in how they fill out. If there are, say, 6 Assault slots and 12 Rifleman slots, a team shouldn't be able to fill out all 6 Assault slots before a certain number of Rifleman slots are also filled.

 

[Vyllis]

The issue is not in the current limits, but in how they fill out. If there are, say, 6 Assault slots and 12 Rifleman slots, a team shouldn't be able to fill out all 6 Assault slots before a certain number of Rifleman slots are also filled.

Yes, it already work with LMG (i think). I hope tripwire read that.

 

[deadlok]

I enjoy the realism through gameplay: ballistics (bullet energy, trajectory, penetration), weapon operation (fire rates, aiming, jamming, overheating,etc.), fatigue / wounds/ suppresion system, cover system.

Trying to impose realism through hystorical weapon availability will highly diminish the fun factor, imo. Trying server after server, lokking for a free G41 slot gets old quickly, not only for the CoD / BFBC2 fans you are so quick to frown upon, but even for more "hardcore" gamers. ARMA 2 did fine in MP without having to resort to severe limitations.

I agree most classes should be limited, but for gameplay reasons, not hystorical (obviously, the exception being rifleman). And the limitations should not be too tight (2 marksmen is ok, 4 elite riflmen, 3 MGs, something along these lines).

What i would do if i were at Tripwire, i would make even deeper differences between Realism and Casual servers. This way, both camps should be happy. I don't think it's that hard for them to do that, it's only a matter of what's available equipment-wise and maybe changed class definition/availability, and how much info gets displayed on your HUD.