Realism or Not: SMG

[jquinn914]

Just from a logical standpoint as I'm definitely not a skilled enough player to comment fully on the metagame, but where exactly does the SMG fall short compared to the standard rifle. Surely the ability to shoot through some extra materials doesn't make up for the infinitely superior refire/magazine size of the SMG. While this is a beta it's clear in every server, Assault players end up 5-10x higher on the scoreboard than riflemen. The way I see it either gun hits it's target and doesn't deviate, either gun kills in one shot, but the SMG can put out such a huge volume of bullets in comparison. It isn't punished by missed shots where as missing a shot with rifle can mark your grave more often that not, it can engage multiple enemies while the rifle cannot, it is effective on the move while rifle isn't. Just a few points as I'd be happy to hear that I'm missing something but I just don't see it. Also, where does elite rifleman fall short in comparison or are they just intended to be superior for the lucky few?

 

[Krazyxazn]

Currently we only have access to 3 maps, there are 7 other maps which could include large open maps. If not, there is always custom maps. There are lot of custom maps on RO1 / Darkest Hour / Mare Nostrum.

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TWI has given a lot of customization to RO2 and their previous games. Don't lose faith.

An Elite Rifleman can be as good as an Assault. Granted he doesn't face 4 guys at once I have topped the scoreboard without Assault several times. Kills or Objectives, is what it comes down to.

 

[Darkseed]

Less damage, less penetration power, less accuracy, less effective range. On maps like apartments it doesn't really matter that much, but IRL the SMG ruled at those ranges as well. Not many like to play the SMG role on fallen heroes however, and for the very same reasons as above.

 

[kenijaru]

Well, elite riflemen are just that, ELITE. They are suposed to be better, and they are suposed to be few (or at least few-ish).

regarding the smgs... they won't kill you in one shot (most of the time at least, if you are lucky enough you can drop behind cover and put a band-aid on). rifles are much more reliable from a distance, much more fun to use (i may be biased ) and they can shoot through stuff :IS2:

 

[El Burro]

From what I understand the smg (or fully automatic guns) are good for suppressing fire and short range. However a rifle is much more accurate at distance. When I play as a rifleman I can get people at a considerable distance but with an SMG the best I can usually hope for is to keep them down till someone else shoots them.

 

[Pig]

Play TE_FallenFighters alot and you will see the real strong points of RO. Combined Arms maps. While Rifles control the long range open ground the house to house combat is the job for SMG

 

[Psychiatrist911]

I play rifleman and im usually in the top 5.

When using the rifle you need to stay BEHIND the guys with the small pew pew guns, and you really need to watch your steps.
In maps like apartments windows are your friends, narrow corridors are not

 

[FBOTheLiuetenant]

SMGs are very powerful this time around, but that still doesn't make them the ultimate weapon. Simply putting an SMG in the hands of an average player won't land them at the top of the scoreboard, doing well in RO (not just refering to kills) requires knowing your environment, where best to wait vs when to charge, being not only a quick shot but a precise one as well. I've taken out plenty of PPSH wielding players at point blank with my K98k, simply because I was paying attention and knew where to wait for them.

I also disagree that the extra penetration isn't a plus for the rifle, having gotten a few well places penetration kills was worth it with the rifle.

This is just talking about Apartments, Fallen Fighters is a whole other story.

 

[Panzer Jager '43]

The way I see it either gun hits it's target and doesn't deviate, either gun kills in one shot, but the SMG can put out such a huge volume of bullets in comparison.

SMGS don't kill in one shot unless hit head, heart, or groin. The high volume of fire is what kills.

SMGs are 2-4 shots depending on hit location - they have the same lethality as the Pistols.



I'd recommend you play Fallen Heroes on Territory gamemode. If you restrict yourself to 50m engagements such as Apartments and Countdown gamemodes, then YES! SMG will be uber. It's an effective weapon for under 100m engagements.

Map size is important.

 

[skipper1993]

Just from a logical standpoint as I'm definitely not a skilled enough player to comment fully on the metagame, but where exactly does the SMG fall short compared to the standard rifle. Surely the ability to shoot through some extra materials doesn't make up for the infinitely superior refire/magazine size of the SMG. While this is a beta it's clear in every server, Assault players end up 5-10x higher on the scoreboard than riflemen. The way I see it either gun hits it's target and doesn't deviate, either gun kills in one shot, but the SMG can put out such a huge volume of bullets in comparison. It isn't punished by missed shots where as missing a shot with rifle can mark your grave more often that not, it can engage multiple enemies while the rifle cannot, it is effective on the move while rifle isn't. Just a few points as I'd be happy to hear that I'm missing something but I just don't see it. Also, where does elite rifleman fall short in comparison or are they just intended to be superior for the lucky few?

You gotta remember that assualt does just that, assualts things, players who choose the SMG class often spend the match running and gunning, storming buildings and such, which is a task that cannot be performed by a riflemen with a blot action weapon. Riflemen players will play the match differently, they will hold up, taking the nearest thing to sniping spots in windows and stuff like that. The weapon you choose dictates the style of which you play. And there for if you are running and gunning with an SMG you will be covering more ground of the map, and there for logically and statistically encountering more enemies than a riflemen who plays a more static role. Its not really to do with the guns or their power/recoil/mag cap. Its more to do with how many players you have the opertunity to kill

 

[LogisticEarth]

Riflemen players will play the match differently, they will hold up, taking the nearest thing to sniping spots in windows and stuff like that.

If you are playing the rifleman class this way, then you're playing it wrong. They should also be assaulting to control the cap. You might advance differently, but ultimately the rifleman's job is to get in there too.

 

[raov.soLucky]

I would say that the elite riflemen are far more op than smgs. They are accurate long range and more than capable close range. Really no down sides.

 

[skipper1993]

If you are playing the rifleman class this way, then you're playing it wrong. They should also be assaulting to control the cap. You might advance differently, but ultimately the rifleman's job is to get in there too.

??????

Its the second most long range type class generally, how are you effective at close range with a one shot firearm that is designed for long range fire fights and tactical thinking, it is the complete opposite of the SMG class. The mid ground is the elite riflement with the semi auto rife

EDIT: Besides dont take my post out of context, you play how ever the **** you want, i dont care if your the bolt action riflemen trying to kill me at point blank range from the hip, or the ppsh weilding nutter trying to snipe, do what you want. Im just saying, the class you choose generally effects gameplay style, and with an SMG you ARE more likely to move around more and encounter more enemies, therefore will have more opertunities to get kills. Im making a point on how it effects the scoreboard, thats it!

 

[Sgt.NightFire]

Play TE_FallenFighters alot and you will see the real strong points of RO. Combined Arms maps. While Rifles control the long range open ground the house to house combat is the job for SMG

Indeed, i tried the ppsh for some long range shooting as some stated they could snipe people from the other side of the square,so i put the test to myself and i tried but i think i only wounded people. If people did get kills, it must have been a lucky shot, like in a area where you surely will die from.

In real life this happened as well you know.

 

[Colour]

I find that I can get kills with SMGs, especially the MP40, at 100 metres easily. However every single main firearm in the game is good at that range, and I also get kills just as easily with rifles.

SMGs are good at very close range, upto 100 metres, and according to the range settings, upto 200 metres is possible but probably not accurate. They are very good, in my opinion, even though they require single shotting at 60+ metres.

Bolt action rifles are effective at all ranges past 10 or 20 metres. Semi autos at all ranges including up close. The difference with rifles is that they usually down people in one shot and that they are a lot more accurate. They don't usually give the guy a chance to bandage or shoot back before finally dying.

Machineguns are effective at all ranges too, and the MG34 especially is good at sniping when using the single shot mode. However for longer ranges and accuracy they need to be set up.

If SMGs and Machineguns are so good, why do people choose rifles over them? I don't understand. However, all weapons are balanced currently in my opinion. I can use any effectively, and it all seems to be personal preference when it comes to actually selecting a weapon. I see no problem at all with weapon balance in this game, infact it's perfect. Nothing is overpowered at all, everything works as it should do and it all feels realistic to me.

If someone shoots me and kills me with an SMG or a rifle, they could have done it just as easily with something else. Bolt action rifles arn't slow at shooting, people just like to take time with their shots in my experience.

 

[luciferintears]

SMGS don't kill in one shot unless hit head, heart, or groin. The high volume of fire is what kills.

SMGs are 2-4 shots depending on hit location - they have the same lethality as the Pistols.

but since their pin point accurate i can consistently hit them in those very regions.

i was using an mp40 to pick off players well beyond 100m. 1 or 2 taps, and the enemy goes down. switch target and do the same thing.

this coupled with the lack of standing sway makes it very easy.

 

[Rumpullpus]

but since their pin point accurate i can consistently hit them in those very regions.

i was using an mp40 to pick off players well beyond 100m. 1 or 2 taps, and the enemy goes down. switch target and do the same thing.

this coupled with the lack of standing sway makes it very easy.

ive seen this too its incredibly annoying. even on fallinfighters i routinely find SMGs right were the riflemen are getting most of the kills. its harder for them sure but it works and theres no real way to counter it.

 

[Nenjin]

Just echoing the chorus here. FallenFighters shows you why SMGs aren't all powerful. Maps like Apartments are where they dominate.

 

[Paas]

but since their pin point accurate i can consistently hit them in those very regions.

i was using an mp40 to pick off players well beyond 100m. 1 or 2 taps, and the enemy goes down. switch target and do the same thing.

this coupled with the lack of standing sway makes it very easy.

The effective range of the MP40 for a point target is 100m. So there really isn't any reason you shouldn't be able to do this.

-Paas

 

[jquinn914]

Just echoing the chorus here. FallenFighters shows you why SMGs aren't all powerful. Maps like Apartments are where they dominate.

Fallen does seem a much more balanced map than Apartments, it takes some real patience to advance on the enemy. However, i didn't try to shoot anyone from long range so I wonder just how ineffective is the SMG at range compared to rifle. Ideally, both realistically and gameplay-wise the SMG would have a much lower velocity to it's shot making it harder to land shots at range.