Recon Plane

[godtom]

Also in wwII online if you fly low enough to spot inf...they'll shoot your plane down along with AAA fire. So...yeah should be fun shooting planes in RO2. Hope you get alot of points for it.

No...

 

[Deleted member 12421]

Haha this brought one of the 50 player servers to a horrible argument earlier.

Not worried because its not going to be the UAV thing of battlefield.

Also, we will already have light anti-aircraft, people need to realize. Almost every machinegun was able to be fitted to an anti-aircraft mount, spotting planes are going to fly low and slow, even without the AA mount, it gives machine gunners another thing to do. I used to do this all the time in another game.

 

[DeAdSeYe]

The first Surveillance aircraft was build in 1794. Well it was Actually a balloon.

Since 1794 does air surveillance exist, so why not WW2?

There you go, [url]http://www.airwar.ru/spyw2e.html[/URL]

Sow yes, it is realistic to use an recon plane!

 

[Halfshadows]

Yes, because how things work in 1794 is exactly how they work in 1942.

 

[DeAdSeYe]

Yes, because how things work in 1794 is exactly how they work in 1942.

Im not saying that it works the same, but the idea for air surveillance is the same thing isnt it?
If i use an balloon in 1794 or an airplane in 1939 - 1945 or use an drone now. They have all the same mission, to overview the situation and report enemy infantry, buildings or light/heavy armors.

Well to make it sort, everything that looks suspicious, and even more then only enemy reports like civilians in dangerous zone or how is the terrain for tactics!

 

[Nebfer]

The concept is realistic, the most unrealistic is how fast it is, and that a lieutenant has the ability to call it in and get the info. In reality it's more likely it would of gone though the battalion commander and the battalions signal platoon (which had 4 radios at this time), before reaching down to the platoon commanders.

But this is abstracted for the sake of game play. But you say why have it if the platoon commander could not call it in?

Well technically platoon commanders often did not have the ability to call in artillery strikes by them selves as well. They had to go though the observer. But this is abstracted as well.

 

[drswank]

The concept is realistic, the most unrealistic is how fast it is, and that a lieutenant has the ability to call it in and get the info. In reality it's more likely it would of gone though the battalion commander and the battalions signal platoon (which had 4 radios at this time), before reaching down to the platoon commanders.

If you want a realistic implementation, the commander could relay 'zones' of where the enemy is, as it's not hard to believe that the recon plane could give basic coordinates of enemy troops as a whole, whereby the commander could relay that info to squad leaders, and so on.

But, then you have to ask yourself, is that information useful in a game battle, where arguably it moves faster than real battles? I think that might be the justification for more specific information via 5 second delay? I think from what I've heard, via the relay, it's hard to believe that it'll be used for any useful 'god-like' omniscience of where enemy troops are. Instead, it'll be a basic understanding of where troops 'were', in order to guide troop movements and offensive leadership, or defensive decision.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

Seriously tripwire? Why is there a recon plane feature. If Red Orchestra is supposed to be realistic, why is there a recon plane that tells you where the enemy is.

Because they existed back then and were used for such things.

And how does it get communicated down the command chain? Telepathy? It makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense because the Commander needs to remain by the radio in order to get this information, which is then relayed to other players.

I feel like this is codifying our beloved game. And how is a recon plane supposed to get there in the first place.

Wings and a Prayer.... it flew there

Weren't germany and russia fighting for air superiority.

Yup, which involved airplanes, much like the recon plane you're complaining about..... since they were fighting for air superiority, that means no one side had it, which means both sides had planes in the air, which included recon planes, which were used often.

How else do you think each side was able to tell if the enemy was advancing or occupied a certain area?

Homing Pigeons?

Maybe if different maps had different air superiority, or there was some system for fighting over it. It would be cool to see planes fighting each other in the air, it would really add to the atmosphere. But the recon planes system ro has right now makes no sense.

Only because you didn't look too far into its details.

How is a guy in a plane supposed to see people and tell the commander where they are.

The same way my uncle took photos from the air..... looking out the window with their eyeballs and relaying that information via radio communications.

Believe it or not, radios existed back then.

I'm really concerned about RO becoming like CoD. We have recon planes and arty, so why not add in dogs so we got all 3 kill streaks. What do you guys think?

I think you're overreacting.

Should this feature even be in this game? And if so, how would you balance it or make it realistic.

It's already balanced in that both team's commanders can use them, the recon planes can only observe exposed soldiers, in that anybody in buildings or covered by something else can not be identified...... and it's realistic in that you can shoot the recon planes down.

Exactly, and it's not like it'll even be that useful, at them most it'll show where the flock of enemies are generally around like if they are going for point A or point B. and that's if Thier not in cover.

I think it all makes sense, and the whole "telepathy" thing is just to make the system actually work without being lame.

Also, keep in mind that unless you have your map out, you won't see them.... to my knowledge anyways.

I sure hope they don't pull a BF:BC2 where the enemies spotted show icons over their heads while you're in First Person.... that would suck.

I'm ok with the feature in RO2. But I do find it extremly annoying how games are having UAV's and Arty strikes, kill streaks and all just to get a piece of CoD money.

Although just because it has those cool features doesn't mean its a COD clone. Game is nothing like it.

Still, hate the fact COD took over online gaming.

I'm not sure on the answer, so I'll ask..... which FPS first introduced artillery strikes in multiplayer?

I know Red Orchestra: Combined Arms had them, but never played any games before RO:CA that had Arty..... then again, I was never into CoD or BF that much to know when they introduced them. I know CoD2 had arty strikes, but I think that was in Single Player.

If you and half a dozen other people are flanking the enemy, and when they see a recon plane coming and all of you stop moving and sort of camouflage yourselves on the ground, would you still be spotted? In real life, a recon plane couldn't see you, but a computer can't tell the difference and you'll get spotted and everyone will know your flanking. This will ruin the balance.

Blanance.... pfft.... Pa'lease....

If you see it coming, shoot it down, problem solved.

They'd also have to send the recon plane at the right time and the right direction in order to spot you, and if they do that, chances are they already knew you were there, or it was just dumb luck.

 

[hanky]

I'm not saying CoD is first, and I'm not even suggesting RO2 is copying CoD. I'm just saying as of lately a lot of new games coming out look a lot like CoD. (RO2 not being one of them) So for a person to post on the forums something like this is understandable. But we shall all be happy soon enough when we play the beta and are all amazed on how awesome it is.

 

[JoMac]

Seriously tripwire? Why is there a recon plane feature. If Red Orchestra is supposed to be realistic, why is there a recon plane that tells you where the enemy is. And how does it get communicated down the command chain? Telepathy? It makes no sense. I feel like this is codifying our beloved game. And how is a recon plane supposed to get there in the first place. Weren't germany and russia fighting for air superiority. Maybe if different maps had different air superiority, or there was some system for fighting over it. It would be cool to see planes fighting each other in the air, it would really add to the atmosphere. But the recon planes system ro has right now makes no sense. How is a guy in a plane supposed to see people and tell the commander where they are. I'm really concerned about RO becoming like CoD. We have recon planes and arty, so why not add in dogs so we got all 3 kill streaks. What do you guys think? Should this feature even be in this game? And if so, how would you balance it or make it realistic.

I feel your pain Shadows..
There is no reason to have Recon & Arty Support called in a skirmish level ( squad-Platoon ) FPS game that lasts only 15 minutes...Stuff like this should only be incorporated in some sort of Campaign game.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

Yes, because how things work in 1794 is exactly how they work in 1942.

Holy crap, butthurt much?

Now you're just pulling out things to save your losing argument.

Of course things work differently in 1942 than they did in 1794, one's a ballon and the other is a plane.... reconnaissance remains the same, except in 1942, relaying that recon information was much faster.

WWI had a lot of infantry battles but also a huge war going on in the air..... and while loads of planes would be shooting, fighting and bombing targets in the air, recon planes were used heavily back then, so why wouldn't they be used in WWII?

By all means, provide a logical argument, as I'd love to hear it.

 

[Halfshadows]

Of course things work differently in 1942 than they did in 1794

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

I feel your pain Shadows..
There is no reason to have Recon & Arty Support called in a skirmish level ( squad-Platoon ) FPS game that lasts only 15 minutes...Stuff like this should only be incorporated in some sort of Campaign game.

A decent and well played map can last 30 minutes or more and RO isn't just some Skirmish game, otherwise why bother with tanks?

In fact, let's take everything out of the game so that players can only kill their enemies by clubbing them over the head with their boot.

And only in campaign?

I imagine RO2 Campaigns will be pretty long, but I also know CoD and BF SP campaigns don't even last 15 minutes and I usually fly through them in about 5 minutes..... so there'd be even less use for arty in that.

Also, considering each team only has a certain amount of arty strikes and just can't keep spamming them through the entire game like in BF2, your concerns over that are trivial.

Most RO1 maps either have no arty or you only have 3-5 strikes through the entire game.... so it's either not an issue on some maps, or you have to be very wise on how you use the few they give you on others.

 

[JoMac]

At the end of the day, it's a video game. It's supposed to be fun. I'm sure their talented QA staff is finding the right balance between hardcore simulation and COD.

Swank, surely you jest...This is more then a Vid Game ( or should be ).

Its people like myself and others that have to take RO to the next level, and make it closer to a "Hardcore Simulation". This may be in a form joining "Hardcore Realism" Clans or Groups, and adding Mutators, etc...TWI, why oh why.

 

[slavek]

Don't worry OP, you still have to get 3 kills without dying to be able to call the recon plane. This combined with RO's unforgiving combat makes it balanced. Also I heard that Germans can get care packages in the later desperate maps, no really, Germans really did get care packages in real life!

I'm kidding btw. Don't get mad.

 

[JoMac]

A decent and well played map can last 30 minutes or more and RO isn't just some Skirmish game, otherwise why bother with tanks?

In fact, let's take everything out of the game so that players can only kill their enemies by clubbing them over the head with their boot.

And only in campaign?

I imagine RO2 Campaigns will be pretty long, but I also know CoD and BF SP campaigns don't even last 15 minutes and I usually fly through them in about 5 minutes..... so there'd be even less use for arty in that.

Also, considering each team only has a certain amount of arty strikes and just can't keep spamming them through the entire game like in BF2, your concerns over that are trivial.

Most RO1 maps either have no arty or you only have 3-5 strikes through the entire game.... so it's either not an issue on some maps, or you have to be very wise on how you use the few they give you on others.

I can see it now, Praxius calls in Division/Corp Arty & Air Support for his Fireteam, and all in a game that lasts as long as a bathroom break.

Your simply missing the point and the bigger picture...Future MkB 42 & Recon Plane user

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

Thanks for proving my point.

What Point?

That recon was different back in the 1700's than it was in the 1940's?

That's common sense.

What does that have to do with your original complaint about recon planes being in the game?

I can see it now, Praxius calls in Division/Corp Arty & Air Support for his Fireteam, and all in a game that lasts as long as a bathroom break.

If your sh*ts take more than 15 minutes or more than 30 minutes, then I'd suggest you go talk to your doctor..... or at least cut down on the red meat.

Your simply missing the point and the bigger picture...Future MkB 42 & Recon Plane user

Oh by all means Mr. 733t - 137 Post Master, please elighten this humble RO:CA/RO1 vet on this magical point and wonderful bigger picture I and others in here seem to be missing.

I still have yet to see anybody form a logical point other than to complain about there being recon planes in the game and that they're like CoD or BF.... which they're not.

And you're damn right I'll use the MkB 42 and the Recon Planes.... I'll use every feature in RO2 just like I did for all the other RO games, and if I find you on a server, I'll toss all the recon planes and MkB 42 rounds into your head that I can, just to P you off.

See you out there

Great counter argument / refute by the way *snickers*

 

[JoMac]

Praxius, I still luv you...Its all Good

 

[Switchblade]

not this again...

exactly, been discussed to death, use search next time