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Recoil..

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#42
Actin said:
It's actually really simple.

They want each gun to fire exactly as their real life counterparts do. That's why they dropped the excessive recoil.
Since they felt that the papasha was too powerful, they gave the 71 drum as an unlockable. The important thing is the following.
The guns still handle as the exact counterparts, and that's what the goal of the game was ( and I think still is).
When you have the recoil raised in RO1, it might be balanced, but then it would essentially be another weapon (Mosin 71 drum mag?).
Also the box magazine is still realistic since it existed, so not really a nerf of the weapon imho.

So yeah like the bayo it is not realistic to have it an unlock, but the weapon will handle realistic as intended.
So it wil still own the short to medium ranges, like it did!
Click to expand...

Amen - hit the nail on the head.
 
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#43
i make a mod for men of war, its a realism SIMULATION style kind of mod.

the american m2 50 cal MG does one hit kills, and fires at 600 to 800 RPM, its a ****ing INF killing machine. it can also take out light tanks.

try to hit me with that PF or PS (panzerfaust, panzershrek)..i out range you! so i win.

a friend of mine *****es that its to "over powered". i told him that he downloaded a realism mod, and that how it was. the americans realized the 50 cal was 1337 0wnag3, so they used it on every single tank!

and this mod is balanced, but not by nerfing this and buffing this, i made everything realistic and edited prices based on production numbers (sherman is cheap becasue there was millions of them, tiger is not expensive (nor cheap), but it can take out 5 shermans before the 6th one kills it! however, the score at the top is even! realisticaly it took 6 shermans to kill one tiger. so, if the tiger can kill all 6, the player has better skill, or if the USA player can kill the tiger with 1 sherman, hes god like!
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BOTTEM LINE!!!!

RO2 is a realistic game, its nto a simulation!, but its semi-sim! they shot the guns, they know how they recoil! they used the same factors in the game to give you the same recoil. SMGs were a great thing to have....mabey the sniper will actually be a sniper and kill officers, mgs, and SMGs now!
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also, recoil is what you feel in your shoulder, muzzle climb is how the gun bounces all over the place. you people are talking muzzle climb! also, the gun has a small barrel, and fires a pistol round....so its INACCURATE as hell, even if ther was NO recoil or muzzle climb. it also does not do mutch damage!
 
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#44
HellBilly said:
the ones that say the smg's are over powered are the crappy snipers that cant shoot

the only way they can beat a smg is to have the game changed
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Right except it's nothing to do with that, you're just generalising.

Simple facts:

RO:Ost's SMG recoil is too high, unrealistic, at times uncontrollable and encourages spray and pray.

RO:HoS's SMG recoil and lower ammo count will be much more realistic, controllable and will encourage the user to aim a little more.

What else is there to it? If all other weapons are as realistic as can be, why should the SMG's be any different? Game balancing doesn't come into this, you guys are talking as if they own RO:Ost and change the outcome of all the battles - they really don't.
 
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#46
I have to say I don't like the idea of balancing the game in unrealistic ways like adding a clip mag first but nevermind. The solution to balance the gameplay imo lays in map design, slightly tweak a map towards a german team either by pushing a spawn bit closer or whatever to compensate the advantage of ppsh. Or add 1-2 extra smg for a german team. Besides doesn't mg42 (although don't know if it was in huge numbers in Stalingrad) already evens out a firepower of german infantry compared to russians as it was way better than dp28?
 
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#47
SasQuatch said:
There are many situations in RO2 levels where you'd whish you'd have a rifle instead of an SMG.
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I'm glad you guys brought the weapons more to realistic handling than in ROOST,if you'r rifleman and going into CQC,think twice before you make a move so you wont be in a bigger disadvantage than you already are.

But then on a big open area map,you will rule with the bolt or semi,thats if your good rifleman overall that is :)

So in one word I preffer MAP balance and keep weapons as close to realistic that they are,but dont balance weapons thats not what RO is all about.
 
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#48
Kashash said:
I have to say I don't like the idea of balancing the game in unrealistic ways like adding a clip mag first but nevermind.
Click to expand...

Well, I suppose they could have made it balanced and realistic by making the drum mags prone to failure, especially when loaded with more than 65 rounds.

There was a reason the box magazine was created for the PPSh.
 
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#49
Schreq said:
Wrong, for example they are still making exceptions for balancing purposes, like giving the papash only clips first, instead of the drum mags. Not very realistic. I was talking about exceptions in general, not only in regards of weapon handling.

The thing you don't understand is that a game should cater to all it's customers. No clanplayer is trying to force the game into a direction which only suits one party.
It's even the other way around imo. The people who argue in this thread are for changes which would cater to the people who play the game because of fanaticism in regards of realism, while I'd say the core of players play it because the best mix of realism with yet fast and good gameplay. Also keep in mind that hardly any clan players are posting here... except zetsumei :p

"This is the kind of mentality that plagues games like Call of Duty and Starcraft and it's tiring."
lol. Some people enjoy competition in their local football club, some people enjoy winning a tennis match against a friend, some people enjoy clanmatches in games, and some people just don't like anythng of those. I don't see a problem there. What exactly makes you so bitter?
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I'd be careful when reading my post. You'll note that I implied the PPSh drum vs. box magazine argument when I said "changes that are not historically based" i.e. box mags existed and were frequently used so they are historically based as well as an acceptable balancing mechanism.

Games should not cater to anyone. A game should remain true to the vision that the developers had. I'm not going to argue about clan members beyond the original point I made. Perhaps there's not much of the push here by clan members to change the game for their own purposes but there is that argument made for many games. I made a general comment.

Could you please elaborate on why this is what's wrong with gaming today? It appears as though the point of the invitation to play vs good clan SMG players was simply to prove that there is a degree of depth to SMG gameplay and it's not just a spray-and-pray weapon as is often thought.
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It's a gun. There's not supposed to be a "degree of depth" to its use. That's the difference between, say, Call of Duty and Red Orchestra. By and large games like Call of Duty have gameplay mechanics that exist solely for their own sake e.g. SMG recoil being "hard to master" so it adds an artificial sense of depth to the game.
 
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#51
I think it's a bad choice to not fully include two of the most iconic guns used in the battle (PPSH41 with drum and mg42). When browsing pictures of it during WW2 the wast majority use the drum mag, mostly in late war photos they use the box. I'm afraid it will be a rare sight in HoS to see a PPSH with drum since it otherwise obviously would break its balance.

Here is a Russian who use a mp40 in Stalingrad, so it can't have been that bad. The image contains one dead person (not close up).
http://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=9215
 
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#54
Forssen said:
I think it's a bad choice to not fully include two of the most iconic guns used in the battle (PPSH41 with drum and mg42). When browsing pictures of it during WW2 the wast majority use the drum mag, mostly in late war photos they use the box. I'm afraid it will be a rare sight in HoS to see a PPSH with drum since it otherwise obviously would break its balance.

Here is a Russian who use a mp40 in Stalingrad, so it can't have been that bad. The image contains one dead person (not close up).
[url]http://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=9215[/URL]
Click to expand...

Since its included and we've the options to play and customize as we want on the server-side i'm sure you'll find plenty of realism/custom servers with the drum mag unlocked and ready.
 
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#55
heady89 said:
Since its included and we've the options to play and customize as we want on the server-side i'm sure you'll find plenty of realism/custom servers with the drum mag unlocked and ready.
Click to expand...

Of course, but it's not like the server can just unlock the drum mag since it would break the games balance. Have to redo the balance altogether if you still want to play a balanced game. And it sounds like it isn't going to be a ready server option to include stuff you haven't unlocked yet. Someone probably have to create a mod/mutator to make it happen. Your point still stands though.
 
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#56
You people that talk of balance issues when there is less recoil are strange. You want realistic gameplay but nerfed weapons??

Weapons should do the damage they are supposed to do, have realistic recoil and bullets that kill. Make them behave in-game as close to their real life counterparts as possible, then 'balance' lies in your own hands.

Balance Schmalance!
 
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#57
Forssen said:
Here is a Russian who use a mp40 in Stalingrad, so it can't have been that bad. The image contains one dead person (not close up).
[url]http://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=9215[/URL]
Click to expand...

strong virus phaggot
2jcslt4.gif


J/K :D
 
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#58
zeep said:
You people that talk of balance issues when there is less recoil are strange. You want realistic gameplay but nerfed weapons??

Weapons should do the damage they are supposed to do, have realistic recoil and bullets that kill. Make them behave in-game as close to their real life counterparts as possible, then 'balance' lies in your own hands.

Balance Schmalance!
Click to expand...

Again, +1.
 
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