New Interview?

[VariousNames]

What if the pellets are wonderfully designed to solve puzzles, kill enemies in different and special ways, or just give you any sort of edge on the opposition, Those are pretty nice pellets.

Those sound like levers rather than pellets.

Which is to say: make the operation of the lever enjoyable, but better yet, offer the pellets in the immediate and irrespective of the lever. That way both are enjoyable and apart from eachother.

 

[LightsabeR]

And I think you and several people here and elsewhere need to understand that there will be the option to play without these unlocks.

We have no info about how easy or difficult it will be to set up a server that has unlocks turned off. We also don't know how easy it will be for people to find such servers from the server browser.

As has been said several times, a Classic Mode would be nice.

Instead you have people here seeing one measly announcement and letting it turn into a giant issue. This forum is full of ignorance and fear of the unknown, and people who can't handle it.

People hear some new info, they find out something that concerns them and then discuss those concerns on the forums. Isn't that one of the main reasons for having a forum in the first place? You know, discussing the game, raising concerns, etc.

If everyone here would just keep patting TWI on the back and never questioning their decisions, there would be little point for the devs to even visit the forums and get feedback.

As for ignorance and fear of the unknown, yes, definitely. We are a month and a half from release and there has been little info on some key issues.

Now, I know they are a small team and that they are currently very busy and focused on the most important thing, namely getting the game ready for release. I'm confident that most of the people voicing their concerns know this as well. But this doesn't mean they should just sit on their hands and not express their opinions in hopes that TWI guys take notice.


I don't doubt that all the guys at TWI are doing their best to make the game as good as possible. This is their baby, it's the game they've been dying to make, they don't want to **** it up, and I'm confident that they won't.


So, as a final point, let people express their opinions, even if you don't agree with them. There's nothing wrong with discussing things.

 

[VariousNames]

I seem to remember lengthy threads about PPSH box mags, and MG42 or 34 box mags/linked belts, tripods, different scopes, special grenades, new/returning side arms, etc.

Things that if added to Ostfront, would have to behave like "unlocks" due to being uncommon/non-standard equipment. Things that all made their way into Ro2...

The video in the OP said point blank that the PPSH-41 box mags are standard and you have to unlock the drums.

And by the way, the entire reason for the past discussion was that Kar98k bayonets, another piece of standard equipment, will be unlocks.

Non-standard equipment is obviously not the criteria tripwire is using for unlocks.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

i don't need to try out hot soup to tell if it's hot.....likewise i don't need to try out the unlocks to know that having bayonets as unlocks is ridiculous.

TW: why you decided to make standard issued bayonets as unlockables? just answer the question instead of dodging it

 

[Ossius]

Those sound like levers rather than pellets.

Which is to say: make the operation of the lever enjoyable, but better yet, offer the pellets in the immediate and irrespective of the lever. That way both are enjoyable and apart from eachother.

See now your just confusing me. Pellets you collect after said task or achievement, say killing 50 enemies, is a lever, getting the gun is a pellet.
Exploring a dungeon and solving puzzles is a lever, getting a boomerang, a pellet.

Anyways, guess I won't see you on my server

 

[VariousNames]

See now your just confusing me. Pellets you collect after said task or achievement, say killing 50 enemies, is a lever, getting the gun is a pellet.
Exploring a dungeon and solving puzzles is a lever, getting a boomerang, a pellet.

That's right.

And I'm saying give me both independently. If exploring a dungeon or solving puzzles is in and of itself enjoyable, I don't see why I need a reward at the end of it. It sounds superfluous. And forcing me to work for a reward doesn't, in my feeling, make it more enjoyable.

Anyways, guess I won't see you on my server

Take heart. It's better than flinging poop at eachother on forums.

 

[Flogger23m]

Replies in bold.

How many bayonet kills do you get in 1 match anyway? Less than 10? Less than 5? An average of 0-1? You'll survive, believe me.

It is not about how many kills you get with X weapon in Y amount of time. It has to do with gameplay, historical accuracy and realism. Unlocking weapons, gadgets, or having a little image pop notifying me of my "achievements" and unlocks kills immersion. The exact reason I still play RO1 is because it offers such gameplay.

And once you do unlock the bayonets, you won't care about it anymore.

Bayonets were standard issue pieces of equipment. We might as well have an unlock for hand grenades or stripper clips...

I'm just glad Tripwire is at least attempting to do something new..

Unlocks are new? Really? Have you heard of the Battlefield of Call of Duty series? Or just about any other mainstream online shooter? Hint: They all feature ridiculous unlocks.

...and potentially represent the various forms of combat in war.

If you want to represent the various states in which solders went into battle, it can be a loadout option in the menu where you select your class. There is no reason it has to be an unlockable item/option. That is assuming they make sense gameplay wise...

Like it or not, there were troops who may have entered combat without their bayonets fixed, even though they had one available to them.

And some may have entered battle without a working firearm, or without boots. Should these be unlocks to?

It could be that I'm just sick of playing WW2 shooters where everyone is an exact carbon copy of each other, carrying the same exact kit and wearing perfectly kept uniforms with polished boots and well oiled weapons.

This annoys me in games to. I suggested having a few different sets of textures for each gun. Not all wood looks the same on every Mosin or Mauser. Make it random - sometimes you will get a Mosin with a darker wood, other times it can have lighter wood. Do similar for uniforms. But you don't need unlocks that make little to no sense to achieve this.

I just have to say it really bothers me that some long-time supporters of the game and the devs are suddenly questioning EVERYTHING because of some silly unlock...

IMO, there are more than unlocks that worry me in RO2. The movement speed and the quickness of switching to secondary weapons are some of my other (primary) concerns.

 

[Reise]

Non-standard equipment is obviously not the criteria tripwire is using for unlocks

Alright, not all of them would have HAD to behave like unlocks. They were still asked for.

It is not about how many kills you get with X weapon in Y amount of time. It has to do with gameplay, historical accuracy and realism. Unlocking weapons, gadgets, or having a little image pop notifying me of my "achievements" and unlocks kills immersion. The exact reason I still play RO1 is because it offers such gameplay.

And it should still be offered, if they let people play without the system. Hopefully they make it so basic things are available if you play on servers configured as such.

Unlocks are new? Really? Have you heard of the Battlefield of Call of Duty series? Or just about any other mainstream online shooter? Hint: They all feature ridiculous unlocks.

New for RO. I wasn't born yesterday.

If you want to represent the various states in which solders went into battle, it can be a loadout option in the menu where you select your class. There is no reason it has to be an unlockable item/option. That is assuming they make sense gameplay wise...

From Tripwire's standpoint, why stagnate when they can make the game more appealing with progression? Especially when such a system at least HELPS highlight real-life veteran status and adds a bit of diversity to the game. The pros for the overall goal of the game itself seem to outweigh the cons, including the idea that such a system would cause this level of forum bickering.

And some may have entered battle without a working firearm, or without boots. Should these be unlocks to?

No, but I'd rather have something rather than nothing. The opposite of this is just as bad IMO. Prim and proper soldiers fighting Napoleonic battles isn't something WW2 is remembered for.

IMO, there are more than unlocks that worry me in RO2. The movement speed and the quickness of switching to secondary weapons are some of my other (primary) concerns.

All I can say is wait and see? You might find it's better that way.

 

[Munk]

i don't need to try out hot soup to tell if it's hot.....likewise i don't need to try out the unlocks to know that having bayonets as unlocks is ridiculous.

TW: why you decided to make standard issued bayonets as unlockables? just answer the question instead of dodging it

It's standard issue yes and that's what the realism servers are for In true to life history Bayonets and drum mags are standard issue but in a game (relaxed realism mode) it's something you gain from experience. I don't see where the issue is. To but it simply we're catering to two different sides of the fence. There's one side that wants load outs standard issue equipment and that's important to them and their experience. We offer that. Then there's the other side of the fence that only cares to feel like their in a real war, use real tactics and is fine with abstracting certain elements to make the game fun and addictive like progression, becoming a hero and getting to use rare gear that only a select few would ever get there hands on. In real life there are hero's people of exception skill and respected by their fellow soldiers, our goal is to capture that. All while still keeping the game play realistic and true to RO's form. For better or worse we always try to push things and take risks. This is one of them and we'll be watching it closely to see how it's received once the game is released.

 

[Flogger23m]

One very important thing we've done is make all the player progression very subtle so that it doesn't feel gamey or give anyone an unfair edge which is something that's not been done before, it has the RO twist to it.

I personally think that improved running speed, improved reload times and similar methods of player progression is gamey. And it certainly does give an unfair advantage to new players even if it is subtle.

While it might seem boring to your average gamer, an unlock like the following would have been ok with me:

Level 1 = PPSH-41 with 1x drum and 2x stick mags.
Level 2 = PPSH-41 with 1x drum and 2x stick mags.
or
PPSH-41 with 2x drum and 0x stick mags.

Level 3 = PPSH-41 with 0x drum and 4x stick mags.
or
... other two options listed above.

When I first heard about unlocks I was expecting something similar. I would have been willing to play on servers with such an unlock system in place.

To but it simply we're catering to two different sides of the fence.

The issue is that games that try to do this typically fail to be popular with either sides of said fence. By the way I appreciate you replying in this thread.

 

[hockeywarrior]

It's standard issue yes and that's what the realism servers are for In true to life history Bayonets and drum mags are standard issue but in a game (relaxed realism mode) it's something you gain from experience. I don't see where the issue is. To but it simply we're catering to two different sides of the fence. There's one side that wants load outs standard issue equipment and that's important to them and their experience. We offer that. Then there's the other side of the fence that only cares to feel like their in a real war, use real tactics and is fine with abstracting certain elements to make the game fun and addictive like progression, becoming a hero and getting to use rare gear that only a select few would ever get there hands on. In real life there are hero's people of exception skill and respected by their fellow soldiers, our goal is to capture that. All while still keeping the game play realistic and true to RO's form. For better or worse we always try to push things and take risks. This is one of them and we'll be watching it closely to see how it's received once the game is released.

We understand all of that well by now.

The issue we have is that the options to play the unlocks/relaxed realism you are offering and the "realism" that we seek are not on equal footing. Please remember that not every custom server is going to be a "realism" server. I can forsee there being tons of custom servers that don't even focus on realism, or implement mods that make the game even more arcadey. In order to find "realism" servers, we're going to have to somehow sift through tons and tons of options just find ones that MIGHT deliver the experience we want.

This could be totally solved if you guys at TWI simply came up with a barebones "realism" or "classic RO" standardized preset that servers could run, which would be filterable. That way, if a server wants to run this "RO Classic" preset, we would be able to filter so that we only see those servers and hop in a server just as easy as someone who wants to play regular RO with all the unlocks.

Do you see what I'm saying? It's not too much to ask for, and it will really go a long way to truly catering to both crowds. Right now, it's more like a 80/20 relationship, given how hard it would be to find "realism" servers that offer the gameplay we seek compared to those looking for regular ranked servers. Those of us who have been supporting RO since the dark ages don't want to feel like we've been shoved to a tiny, dark corner of the community because we essentially are not able to play the game the way that even you yourself admit is another legitimate avenue.

I really do appreciate you acknowledging that there are those of us that see these things as effecting immersion, gameplay, and over all game experience. All we ask is that you also make it just as easy for us to enjoy the game the way we like to enjoy RO as those who like the unlocks system.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

It's standard issue yes and that's what the realism servers are for

how does that work? so in realism servers, you can have bayos? that means there's availability of unlocks.....would that not also mean that any unlockable weapon can be used? i mean, you can't use a bayo unless you UNLOCK it right? so what does it matter what server you're in.....you can't just buy the game, hop into a realism server and have a bayonet right...or am i missing something here?

In true to life history Bayonets and drum mags are standard issue but in a game (relaxed realism mode) it's something you gain from experience.

well, if you don't gain it in real life through experience, then why do you need "game experience" to gain it? i thought the game is supposed to reflect "real life progression".....if i start with said item in real life, than in "virtual progression" should i not also start with said item to begin with?

All while still keeping the game play realistic and true to RO's form.

true to RO's form wouldn't have unlockable bayonets. level1 rifleman vs. level5 rifleman......buttsmack vs. bayo.....the one who gets the unlock would have a major advantage. that's impacting gameplay which is what TW continues to claim unlocks and ranks etc. would not do.

For better or worse we always try to push things and take risks. This is one of them and we'll be watching it closely to see how it's received once the game is released.

this is a pretty miscalculated risk. just look at it right now.....the reception is shock disgust from RO players. why wait until the game is released?

i appreciate a response finally being posted from a dev.....but the lack of logic behind this decision for the bayonet is very concerning.

 

[Munk]

We understand all of that well by now.

The issue we have is that the options to play the unlocks/relaxed realism you are offering and the "realism" that we seek are not on equal footing. Please remember that not every custom server is going to be a "realism" server. I can forsee there being tons of custom servers that don't even focus on realism, or implement mods that make the game even more arcadey. In order to find "realism" servers, we're going to have to somehow sift through tons and tons of options just find ones that MIGHT deliver the experience we want.

This could be totally solved if you guys at TWI simply came up with a barebones "realism" or "classic RO" standardized preset that servers could run, which would be filterable. That way, if a server wants to run this "RO Classic" preset, we would be able to filter so that we only see those servers and hop in a server just as easy as someone who wants to play regular RO with all the unlocks.

Do you see what I'm saying? It's not too much to ask for, and it will really go a long way to truly catering to both crowds. Right now, it's more like a 80/20 relationship, given how hard it would be to find "realism" servers that offer the gameplay we seek compared to those looking for regular ranked servers. Those of us who have been supporting RO since the dark ages don't want to feel like we've been shoved to a tiny, dark corner of the community because we essentially are not able to play the game the way that even you yourself admit is another legitimate avenue.

I really do appreciate you acknowledging that there are those of us that see these things as effecting immersion, gameplay, and over all game experience. All we ask is that you also make it just as easy for us to enjoy the game the way we like to enjoy RO as those who like the unlocks system.

I like

 

[Ossius]

I
The issue is that games that try to do this typically fail to be popular with either sides of said fence. By the way I appreciate you replying in this thread.

Said examples?

 

[Stormer]

so as i feared to play the original ro in the ro sequel i will have to search for that 1in100 server that has it... yay options!

 

[Grobut]

I like

Good, because that's all we need, a RO-Classic mode we can easilly find.

And we'll be happy to offer suggestions for how such a thing might be set up, make a thread about it, and i'm sure you'll get plenty feedback about what people would like to see in such a mode

 

[Flogger23m]

I like

I like this response.

"Classic" or "Red Orchestra Classic" as an official game mode would be very helpful to many of us.

Said examples?

Rainbow 6 Lockdown and Operation Flashpoint Dragon Rising come to mind. The sequels for each of these games turned out to be even more acradey.

 

[Ossius]

I like this response.

"Classic" or "Red Orchestra Classic" as an official game mode would be very helpful to many of us.

Rainbow 6 Lockdown and Operation Flashpoint Dragon Rising come to mind. The sequels for each of these games turned out to be even more acradey.

R6 was made by Ubisoft, Satan's developer house.

how does that work? so in realism servers, you can have bayos? that means there's availability of unlocks.....would that not also mean that any unlockable weapon can be used? i mean, you can't use a bayo unless you UNLOCK it right? so what does it matter what server you're in.....you can't just buy the game, hop into a realism server and have a bayonet right...or am i missing something here?

What I got from his post was we get unlocks and heroes on Relaxed mode, and Realism servers are basically RO1 in RO2.

 

[Nezzer]

What I got from his post was we get unlocks and heroes on Relaxed mode, and Realism servers are basically RO1 in RO2.

Sucks that newcoming arcade players will get a lot more options than us

 

[VariousNames]

It's standard issue yes and that's what the realism servers are for In true to life history Bayonets and drum mags are standard issue but in a game (relaxed realism mode) it's something you gain from experience. I don't see where the issue is. To but it simply we're catering to two different sides of the fence. There's one side that wants load outs standard issue equipment and that's important to them and their experience. We offer that.

That's fine. And I can deal with that.