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10 reasons why i hate the santa map

grazr

Grizzled Veteran
Oct 14, 2010
48
11
1) It's so badly optimised. I have a 2 month old machine (i7, GTX 460 with 4GB DDR3) and this map makes my game freeze for a second or two fairly frequently. It's not even a top of the range engine anymore (but that in itself probably explains some of the poor performance, see 6).

2) The fog distance inside is atrociously low. There's just no respite from the fog.

3) Ammo placement seems completely arbitrary. Hiding in corridors that rarely get used, in rooms out of the general trader-to-trader paths or several found in extremely close proximity. There seems to have been no method to such madness.

4) Theres no space for a full team (6) to comfortably holdout, anywhere on the map besides 1 room where zombies literally rain down on you from the rafters all rooms/areas are of similar sizes besides the spawn (which you only fight at when you spawn).

5) The player clipping is morbidly over zealous. Things that look like they can be walked over or jumped onto cannot (not even for exploitation, but just so other players can get a line of sight). Edges of large props/models with wide bases that look like they can be walked past... specimens will trap you against invisible collision boxes with 6 ft of room.

6) The density of detail is too much. It's just everywhere. It gets in your way when walking. It gets in your line of sight. There's no justification for the density of detail.

7) For some reason this map is just full of crawlers. Everywhere. a good 50% of the zombies i see are crawlers. Not sure why, but it's really annoying.

8) There are almost no doors to weld and those that are are in completely none useful locations.

9) The map lends itself to griefers because of the many small doorways and corridors that litter the map. It hasn't been too much of an issue because most people are achievement farming; but if i felt like it the trader positions can be so distant i can stop and force a team to fight with practically no ammo because i stood in one of the many narrow doorways. This is problematic enough when there's a small door on the trader entrance.

10) Zombie entrances are everywhere. No location is really more advantagious to hold than any other and besides going outside (where zombies potentially spawn right on you) there's almost no way to put a distance between you and the specimens.

I've played this map about 25-30 times and i don't enjoy myself. Mostly i am disappointed because this is a map that's supposed to be a KF feature this holiday season. I'm disappointed because i love KF and this collaborative (TF2) publicity stunt has brought us many new players and i feel like they aren't getting a good experience because the server list is saturated with dedicated servers running this map 24/7.
 
It isn't so bad, although it did get stale FAIRLY quickly.

I do agree on the over abundance of Crawlers, though. Most of the spawns seem to be Crawlers and Stalkers, while the Bloat spawns are nearly non-existent.

Believe me, the guys from TF2 can spend hours a day on 2Fort, I don't think a map getting stale is much of a problem. Besides, do you really want those Pyros playing Firebugs and running around with katanas and shotguns anywhere else?
 
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It's so badly optimised. I have a 2 month old machine (i7, GTX 460 with 4GB DDR3) and this map makes my game freeze for a second or two fairly frequently. It's not even a top of the range engine anymore (but that in itself probably explains some of the poor performance, see 6).


I cannot believe how many times I have heard this and I really just cannot understand it. Do you people have COD and L4D2 running in the background at the same time or something? or do you just not have any idea how to set up a pc correctly?
I have a 940 AMD and 9800GT running and never have I experienced the issues you have all mentioned with a much more powerful pc! NEVER!
This is nothing to do with either the engine or the game, it is your pc which is giving you the issue....nothing else!


2) The fog distance inside is atrociously low. There's just no respite from the fog.

Adds ambience :)

3) Ammo placement seems completely arbitrary. Hiding in corridors that rarely get used, in rooms out of the general trader-to-trader paths or several found in extremely close proximity. There seems to have been no method to such madness.

So you would rather a line of pickups leading from one trader to another, without deviation? hmm sounds a little exploitive to me, but hey lets suggest it!

4) Theres no space for a full team (6) to comfortably holdout, anywhere on the map besides 1 room where zombies literally rain down on you from the rafters all rooms/areas are of similar sizes besides the spawn (which you only fight at when you spawn).

Have yet to experience this! played on a server with 12 guys the other night and we found quite a few spots to hold down without issue.
We should count ourselves lucky to have more than 1 area because there is nothing more exploitive than camping and constantly winning!


5) The player clipping is morbidly over zealous. Things that look like they can be walked over or jumped onto cannot (not even for exploitation, but just so other players can get a line of sight). Edges of large props/models with wide bases that look like they can be walked past... specimens will trap you against invisible collision boxes with 6 ft of room.

Again nothing to comment on this until I experience it.

6) The density of detail is too much. It's just everywhere. It gets in your way when walking. It gets in your line of sight. There's no justification for the density of detail.

Santa has 3 billion children to make toys for, I thought it was quite tidy for how a workshop would be :)

7) For some reason this map is just full of crawlers. Everywhere. a good 50% of the zombies i see are crawlers. Not sure why, but it's really annoying.

Hmmm you must be camping in spots where crawlers have more chance to spawn, I have faced mainly clots and stalkers.
 
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What.
No exploiter douchebags who won't help the team and thus make an actual game impossible at this point since there's always at least one kid who does it on each santa map?
That's the one big reason I now avoid this map and instead of that you whine some moar about how hard it is?
 
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1) It's so badly optimised. I have a 2 month old machine (i7, GTX 460 with 4GB DDR3) and this map makes my game freeze for a second or two fairly frequently. It's not even a top of the range engine anymore (but that in itself probably explains some of the poor performance, see 6).

This is almost certainly a driver related issue. I'm using Nvidia 182.06 drivers and my machine is a Q6600 + 4 GB DDR2 + 8800GT. Works fine, no stuttering.


4) Theres no space for a full team (6) to comfortably holdout, anywhere on the map besides 1 room where zombies literally rain down on you from the rafters all rooms/areas are of similar sizes besides the spawn (which you only fight at when you spawn).

8) There are almost no doors to weld and those that are are in completely none useful locations.

10) Zombie entrances are everywhere. No location is really more advantagious to hold than any other and besides going outside (where zombies potentially spawn right on you) there's almost no way to put a distance between you and the specimens.

Well, to be honest, there are several good locations on the map for good, organized teams. But there aren't a whole lot of spots for a random bunch of unskilled, uncooperative pubs. It's really hard when I'm trying to chop off the head of a FP with my axe and the Commando decides he wants to unload on the guy with the bright lights coming off him.

The best location for doing the map with pubs is actually right next to one of the traders, and close to another. From the starting location, head right across the bridge. Go into the warehouse with the banner "A lazy Elf..." Head towards the banner and towards the trader doors at the back end of the room.

Once you're near there, take a right to go outside. There will be a narrow door on the right that leads down stairs. Go down the stairs, and head into the double doors. Close the doors and weld them behind you. In front of you now is a single corridor that the zeds have to march down in order to attack your team. (At the end of this corridor is a trader room, too.)

The doors take probably 2 people to keep welded (at least on later waves and depending on what Zeds are actually up front hitting the door), but 2 good support guys can keep it welded indefinitely or open it up occasionally and clear it out with grenades + Hunting Shotguns/AA12s. You only really need 1 or 2 guys in front to manage the occasional trash, but there's definitely room for 6 if you can somehow convince the pubs to all cooperate and go down there.

Every once in awhile a few crawlers or stalkers will drop down inside the corridor from the hole in the ceiling, but that's rare. As long as the doors stay welded you can probably expect to make it to Pat.
 
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I actually know where wail is talking about as a spot to have a team sit, but I find it better if you sit inside the big room through the double doors. Gives you a ton more space to operate in and allows 3 places to escape if needed. Just have one support specialist ( who is willing to take less kills to keep the welds which I usually do since I'm level 6) and keep the welds while the rest of the team kills all the small stuff and I'll help out with scrakes and fleshpounds. Wait till maybe 10 left if you have a long trip to trader and just know which exit from that room to take to get to trader fastest.
 
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