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Update on the Beta - Part 2

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Read the EULA, they don't owe you jack-**** you paid to use their software, if they removed Multiplayer from the game and only had single player, legally they would be in the right to do that. You can get a refund within the refund agreements, but you don't get anything else. There are a bunch of MMORPGs that closed and people lost years of their life in them, the devs can simply turn of the game and players can't do a thing.


Oh I guess I'm a fanboi too :rolleyes:

This topic is going the same path all the others that were locked did.

Personally if I was TWI I'd stop talking to the community until the beta, we don't deserve their communication after the way they have been treated on these forums.

Actually there was a court case against some MMO because they were shutting down the servers. The judge just made them give up Server files and content so private parties could keep it running.
 
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Oh man, some of you guys (many if those who sport an "Aug 2011" join date, just sayin') really need to grow an effing pair.

Not a real beta, but a demo? That's BS. It's an unlimited feature complete larger scale test run than the internal beta, which is used to hunt down issues that were not yet apparent. And the only thing that is required of you is to buy the DDe to take part in.
The only difference to an ordinary eta is that you won't be kicked out for not filing in detailed bug reports.
A demo on the other hand would be severely limited, either content wise, or timewise, which this is not.

And for your Info, I too did serious alpha and beta testing, so I know what I am talking about, thank you very much.

And concerning TW is "lying": You people saying that sound like little whiny *****es who spam global voicechat on xbox live with their high pitched children's voices. Because, most likely, you are that.

First of all, TW never said when the beta would start, and you don't have to be a genius to figure out that when the full game is delayed, the gamestate for a semi public beta will also be delayed, even if nobody effing told you so. So you people might also try to grow an effing brain to go with your shiny newly grown balls.
Secondly, programming is not a linear work where you know exactly what you have completed by certain points of time. Bugs might take longer to be found and fixed than anticipated, new features might not work as quickly as intened, etc. So don't throw a tantrum (like I just did over you) because a game and a beta got delayed for two effing weeks.
Totally man!
 
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Hello and welcome,

Many of you have come seeking answers, although I can not tell you the meaning of life, I can answer the question in relation to this interesting situation.

You see here, I work in Finance, Accounts to be precise. In any industry or business, the customer is always the number 1 priority, because quite simply, without the customer, there is no business. You have to understand that a customer can be anyone, and should never be discriminated. There is NO SUCH THING as a GOOD OR BAD customer, if you start speculating which are bad or good, you will no doubtedly lose business.

So here we are, with TWI, and before I go further I would like to take the opportunity to mention that I do not care about the delay or the consequence. I am simply tired of uneducated people flaming those who have the right to complain.

So, having purchased the product, with a release date set, a customer expects the product to be available upon release date. Sure, sometimes problems occur and it is not possible to achieve a goal.

However, this is not an excuse to say the least.. that It is somehow "acceptable". Take John as an example; John works for a TOP 4 GLOBAL Financial Firm, JOHN had a string of bad luck and has come to work several hours late EVERY day for the past week or two. He had various excuses, ranging from family problems, transportation issues and so forth. Is JOHNS lateness understandable? YES. Is it Acceptable? NO. You see here, in work etiquette, it is JOHN's responcibillity to come to work on time and to account for delays and any set backs. Most employees around the world, can do this quite easily by planning ahead.

Now we can relate the same principle to the MODERN GAMING INDUSTRY: Company A wishes to release GAME A, however the game is posponed due to technical issues. Is this understandable? YES. Is this ACCEPTABLE? NO: the company director/project manager has FAILED in his DUTIES to PLAN AHEAD and form a CONTINGENCY PLAN.

You see here, the trouble is that this has happened FAR TOO MANY TIMES with far too many companies. It is now common for game/product releases to be delayed. Infact people have begun to accept this. Let me use an example of why this is bad for business.

You are a customer. You wish to purchase a product from ACME. The product is good quality, and is priced OK, not cheap, not overly expensive but OK. You could probably buy SIMILAR products from other companies, but you chose ACME because you like the company morals and agree with their ideas. So, here you are, you purchased your new shiny product and a delivery date for it to be dispatched has been allocated and signed off.

Now that you bought your product, you realize you spent your weekly budget on misc products and that you wont be able to buy similar products until next week/month/year etc.

Over the next few days/weeks you wait impatiently for your product to arrive as it impacts your life, you will be spending at least an hour a day on this new product and you feel your day without it is missing something. So you spent the whole time waiting because there has been no notifications or advanced delay warning and as far as you were concerned everything was going to plan. Come the delivery day, you got up especially early just not to miss the mailman in case it arrives super early. Infact, you asked your boss for a day off giving hi m a generic reason such as "I had to go see dentist", just to make sure you didnt miss the product delivery.

Suddenly you hear the sound of post, you rush to the door only to find a measly note lying on the floor. YOu read it in a rush, it has the ACME LOGO on it! The note dully informs you that the product you requested has been delayed due to technical reasons.

You start thinking quickly, perhaps there is another vendor that will sell you a similar product, but ALAS! You realise you dont have enough budget untill your money is returned!

The next day you angrilly ring up ACME asking the supplier for more information, how can this possibly be? Why wasnt I informed etc? You are put on HOLD for an hour or two by the operator.

ACME replies to you generically, saying that if you dont like it, cancel the order and buy another product. Tells you to calm the down and breathe.

My question to you; how do you feel in this position? Do you feel that your relationship with ACME is unaffected? Would you conduct business with ACME in the future or would you seek to buy products from another vendor?

Whilst many people build special relationships with companies and communities, others still see themselves as consumers/customers. Unfortunately with many companies, especially ones ran by inexperienced staff (EXAMPLE: TASOS from DARKFALL community), do not realize that although they might get a cash/sales boost from say delaying a process, what they do in return is ruin the RELATIONSHIPS upon which the business/sales was built. This, is the most important fundamental rule in business.

Good business etiquette calls for good communication, exceeding client/customer care, meeting client expectations and most important consistency in their standards.

Take BLUE chip companies, have you ever heard of overdue accounts or AP delays from their departments? Ever? Really? Because that is why they are labeled for investment. They pay their bills in a consistent fashion, never overdue, never any reason that relates to them.

Sure we have technical issues, great, we are in the 21 century, plan ahead, call an agency, hire temporary staff to meet deadline demands. Ask your staff to work overtime. Cut short specifics, if a target is unobtainable, so be it, include it in a later update. Most importantly MANAGE your PROJECT, or it will fall apart.

I just want to finalize that this post is not associated with beta or TWI in any way and serves only to explain and create discussion around business etiquette and how it affects our modern gaming industry.

Dude dont you get it,they said they work 12+ hours daily and still failed to meet the deadline,what do you want more from them? I cant believe all of this nonsence over a game? Can't you all keep it down for another week its all it takes....
 
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One could ask why you are wasting so much energy posting and rebutting others on this forum. Is this getting you any where? You've stated your opinion. The end. Let it go and wait like the rest of us.

And on the spectrum of game development companies having communication with their community you'd be hard pressed to find other medium to big companies that communicate as regularly as these guys.
 
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Speaking for myself, I'm guessing we're all just super excited to play this glorious piece of gaming which Tripwire is cooking up; in fact, I've definitely had several dreams where the beta was released and I was finally playing RO2 only to wake up and face cold hard reality. :D
We're simply unwisely channeling our excitement in various negative manners instead of just waiting.

I'd compare the feeling to a child wanting to open their gifts before Christmas/birthday/what have you. So difficult to wait but will be worth it. Then let's not be the child having a tantrum wanting to rip open their gift, only to be berated by our parents, but be patiently impatient and imagine how awesome it's gonna be after the torturous wait.

I'm sure someone has said all this already but just my two cents.

Gahhhh it's gonna be awesome.

Cheers TWI, I know y'all are working hard and shall not disappoint.
 
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ShoveIt.jpg


I already posted my 2 cents on this matter in the Steam forums where I read this first..... Thanks Trip and the Devs for clarification.

No skin off my back and I'm happy to wait. My life doesn't revolve around a video game like some people *looks around*

Delays and miscommunication happens in this line of work and simply put.... Sh*t Happens.

Yet no matter what anybody does to try and set things right or to explain the realities of the situation, it still won't be enough for some people and they'll still find something to complain about, simply because they have nothing better to do with their lives except to moan about things not going right in their life.

People demand a release date, they're given one and they complain that it's too soon or not soon enough or it doesn't fit their schedule.

People demand beta access, they're given the option to have beta access and they complain that they don't know when it will start, they complain because they expect it to be the same as a demo of the game without bugs, they then complain they don't care about bugs being in the game, yet others complain there will be bugs and base the full version of the game on those bugs.

People demand answers and explanations on what's going on, they're given estimated times to expect something and take those estimations as being biblical, then complain when they change. When they're given information, even from the higher ups of the dev team, they then complain it wasn't soon enough.

I mean Jebus, if you handed these people a solid bar of gold, they'd complain there was a fk'n finger print on them ffs, or that it wasn't big enough, or that it's too heavy.

I miss the good old days when parents could smack the tar out of their children's mouths till they learned some respect and a little patience. (half joking)

People need to learn some patience, some gratitude and learn that the world doesn't revolve around them or their precious schedule.... and if they revolved their vacation time around a video game's release day and get butthurt that the date changed, they only have themselves to blame and need to get a life.

This isn't directed at anybody in particular..... I'm just ranting.

Carry on.
 
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So, having purchased the product, with a release date set, a customer expects the product to be available upon release date. Sure, sometimes problems occur and it is not possible to achieve a goal.

However, this is not an excuse to say the least.. that It is somehow "acceptable". Take John as an example; John works for a TOP 4 GLOBAL Financial Firm, JOHN had a string of bad luck and has come to work several hours late EVERY day for the past week or two. He had various excuses, ranging from family problems, transportation issues and so forth. Is JOHNS lateness understandable? YES. Is it Acceptable? NO. You see here, in work etiquette, it is JOHN's responcibillity to come to work on time and to account for delays and any set backs. Most employees around the world, can do this quite easily by planning ahead.

Now we can relate the same principle to the MODERN GAMING INDUSTRY: Company A wishes to release GAME A, however the game is posponed due to technical issues. Is this understandable? YES. Is this ACCEPTABLE? NO: the company director/project manager has FAILED in his DUTIES to PLAN AHEAD and form a CONTINGENCY PLAN.

You see here, the trouble is that this has happened FAR TOO MANY TIMES with far too many companies. It is now common for game/product releases to be delayed. Infact people have begun to accept this. Let me use an example of why this is bad for business.

...

Take BLUE chip companies, have you ever heard of overdue accounts or AP delays from their departments? Ever? Really? Because that is why they are labeled for investment. They pay their bills in a consistent fashion, never overdue, never any reason that relates to them.

Sure we have technical issues, great, we are in the 21 century, plan ahead, call an agency, hire temporary staff to meet deadline demands. Ask your staff to work overtime. Cut short specifics, if a target is unobtainable, so be it, include it in a later update. Most importantly MANAGE your PROJECT, or it will fall apart.


Accepting your point about the importance of good communication, perhaps you should consider the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks's_law[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks%27s_law[/URL]

As someone else mentioned, they're already working overtime.
 
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I joined this forum in Aug 2011, I have been with TWI for many years. You do not have a license to be an asshole.

Most complaints are not in fact about the "beta" at all, rather about the abysmal lack of real bi-directional communication, which as I've exhaustively pointed out is BAD PRACTICE for any business.

I don't care how much you love TWI. If they keep doing business this way, they won't be in business very long (at least not in business by themselves without belonging to some big AAA conglomerate that would stifle any/all originality).

You fanboi's can gripe all you want, it doesn't change the fact that Tripwire behaved like a 2-year old and even if their customers did so as well they (the Company) should not have lowered themselves to that level. In doing so, the company has lost credibility. There are simply no if's, and's, or but's about it.

To address your issues again, there were never any dates given, except for a release date. There was the promise of early game play (beta) and that has not changed. As a matter of fact the amount of beta time hasn't changed either.

Do you know how many games I have purchased that were basically beta material at full release? Many AAA title games have major bugs at the release date and TWI is trying to avoid that for it's "paying" customers.

So, what exactly does anyone have to complain about, communication? Do you realize how many games, movies, etc. are delayed without any notification? How much communication from Devs do you see on a BF or COD game. Almost zero is the answer in case you didn't know.


I would argue that they are trying hard to please their customers beyond what a normal studio does.
 
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