[Mutator] Total Game Balance + Gunslinger Perk (ScrN Balance)

[SgtHermann]

hi poosh

THATS a quick response. i am glad i could help.

while configuring around with this wonderfull mut for my privat server i came across a few balancing thingies i like to share.
my approach to setting up mutators and mods for the game is: keep it a challenge.
this sayed i have to confess i love ur huskgun. every bit of it. the ammocounter including colorcode for chargestatus (sigh) , the full-charge hud and sound-fx and the SECDONDARY FIRE. i hate to say it but this wonderfull fireball is to strong.
here are my suggestions:
-keep the boooom as it is, raise the ammo-usage. to 100 per balst. such a big happy new year needs a lot of fuel.
-(the boring one) lower the damage and the balstradius. keep the ammo usage.

as u can see i like big expolsions and mighty guns but everything should have its price (ammo or money) to keep it special. talking about that a last question:
is it possible to seperate the gun discount from the ammodiscount?
some of the costumweapons are really powerfull. beyond a certain perklevel they are also really cheap. my thouhgt was getting the gun for next to no money is ok but the ammo should have no disccount so to keep the weapon running is expensive.

as i said before this is a greaat mut and i follow it closely

keep up the good work

Sgt

 

[poosh]

@ Sgt
Considering your feedback, I set ammo discount cap to 50% for Demolitions (e.g. minimal price for hand grenade now is

 

[SgtHermann]

hi poosh

please take this not as an offence. the firebug is not the scrake-killer (sharpshooter is) or fleshpound-slayer (demolition is) he is the trashmob-cleaner. killing big-ones is an act of desperation and the very last resort.

anyways, to be honest ur right: talking about challenge and running a server with level cap 20 is a contradiction in terms.

i guess solving both problems (making the husk gun usable in 6 hoe AND 20 hoe) is impossible.
adressing this issue by trying to create a compromise is awesome

i appreciate it very much
keep up the good work

Sgt

EDIT: the costum-weapon-support works fine in solo-mode but doesnt work for clients on dedicated servers. at least not for me. do i miss something or is this a known issue...
the SrnBalance-mut works perfect on dedicated btw. i also checked the config for costum wepons in the ScrnBalance.ini: its alright.

thanx in advance for lokking into this

 

[poosh]

the costum-weapon-support works fine in solo-mode but doesnt work for clients on dedicated servers. at least not for me. do i miss something or is this a known issue...
the SrnBalance-mut works perfect on dedicated btw. i also checked the config for costum wepons in the ScrnBalance.ini: its alright.

thanx in advance for lokking into this

Custom Weapon Support should work fine on dedicated servers. I tested it on ScrN server and it worked perfectly.

What exactly doesn't work on client side? Weapon prizes shows incorectly? Can you post your ScrnBalance.ini here?

 

[King Sumo]

Custom Weapon Support should work fine on dedicated servers. I tested it on ScrN server and it worked perfectly.

What exactly doesn't work on client side? Weapon prizes shows incorectly? Can you post your ScrnBalance.ini here?

Perhaps he added too many weapons? I saw that you are using replication to send the perked weapons. There is a limitation of the string size, if above that limit the string is not replicated - check here:
http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/Talk:Types
One option is send the perked weapons in chunks...

 

[poosh]

Perhaps he added too many weapons? I saw that you are using replication to send the perked weapons. There is a limitation of the string size, if above that limit the string is not replicated - check here:
http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/Talk:Types
One option is send the perked weapons in chunks...

Yes, this can be an issue. Problem is that UE2.5 can't replicate arrays, that's why I converted it to a string to send to clients. But I forgot about size limit of replication data.

Any ideas how to replicate an array?

*** EDIT:
Fixed string replication issue, now it should work fine. New version (3.35) can be downloaded here.

Btw, if someone else needs to replicate long strings, here is a class I wrote for:

Spoiler!

class StringReplicationInfo extends ReplicationInfo;

const MaxSize = 255;

var String Str;
var StringReplicationInfo Next;

replication 
{
	reliable if ( bNetDirty && Role == ROLE_Authority )
		Str, Next;
}

simulated function SetString(string value)
{
	ClearString();
	
	if ( len(value) < MaxSize )
		Str = value;
	else {
		Str = Left(value, MaxSize);
		Next = spawn(self.class, self);
		Next.SetString(Right(value, len(value) - MaxSize));
	}
}

simulated function string GetString()
{
	if ( Next == none )
		return Str;
		
	return Str $ Next.GetString();
}

simulated function ClearString()
{
	Str = "";
	if ( Next != none ) {
		Next.ClearString();
		Next.Destroy();
		Next = none;
	}
}

use-case:

var StringReplicationInfo ClientPerkedWeaponsSRI;

replication
{
	// initial data replication from server to client
	reliable if ( bNetInitial && Role == ROLE_Authority )
		ClientPerkedWeaponsSRI;
}  

function PostBeginPlay()
{
	ClientPerkedWeaponsSRI = spawn(class'StringReplicationInfo', self);
	ClientPerkedWeaponsSRI.SetString("A long, long string you want to replicate to clients");
}

 

[SgtHermann]

hi poosh

i added approx 20 -24 weapons (next to all russian guns)
i am looking forward to test 3.35.

a few questions:
is it possible to apply the bonuses (%WPASA) to the SCrnWeapons?
is it necessary to write the letters capital?
is it necessary to write the letters in the right order or does AA$WPS work too?

keep up the good work

Sgt

 

[poosh]

hi poosh

i added approx 20 -24 weapons (next to all russian guns)
i am looking forward to test 3.35.

a few questions:
is it possible to apply the bonuses (%WPASA) to the SCrnWeapons?
is it necessary to write the letters capital?
is it necessary to write the letters in the right order or does AA$WPS work too?

keep up the good work

Sgt

ScrnWeapons are hardcoded into ScrnPerks, so no need to manually specify them. But if you want to cross-perk weapons, you are able to do it. Here are some silly examples:

# Ammo bonus for M32:
PerkedWeapons=6:KFMod.M32GrenadeLauncher:A

# Add Support Spec. bonuses for Dual-Handcannons 
PerkedWeapons=1:ScrnBalance.ScrnDualDeagle

# Make Laser pistols a Sharpshooter weapon (but this won't count headshots anyway)
PerkedWeapons=2:ScrnBalance.ScrnDual44MagnumLaser
PerkedWeapons=2:ScrnBalance.ScrnDualMK23Laser

Bonus letters are CASE SENSITIVE. "A" and "a" are different letters ("a" does nothing).

Letter order doesn't matter. Duplicate letters are omitted. All Following examples will work the same way: "WA$", "W$A", "AA$W".

 

[SgtHermann]

hi poosh

thanx for the clarification about the Bonus letters.
i understand i can give a discount-bonus for a flamerthrower to a support if i wish but its not possible to take away the discount-bonus for the AA12 for the support by adding

PerkedWeapons=1:ScrnBalance.ScrnAA12:WPSAA

it would be cool to be able to make the high tier weapons only available for later waves regardless of the perk-level by taking away the discount-bonus without touching the boni they get from their perk-level (this aims @ players with the superhigh Perklevels).
but i see since the bonis are hardcoded into the ScrnPerks i guess it quiet a effort to add such a option and i am with u if u dont wanna rewrite everything. its great the way it is. its just some fooling around from my side
tests with some russian guns showed good results. for example the m249 for comando costs 3500. its hard to get and players must pool their money to buy it. once in the game they have a great improvement in firepower but if the player using the gun dies its a great loss unless he holds the gun while kicking the bucket.

btw: the costum-weapon-support works fine now.


keep it up

Sgt

 

[Ramare]

I'm making a short video to showcase the upgraded (yet still silly and hard to play with) third person gameplay in this mutator.

It should be up by morning, or in a day or two. If it isn't, give me a poke in case I forgot, and I'll get my arse in gear.

Also, before I forget: Is it possible to further enhance the third person mode by making it give you a crosshair so you know where you're aiming?

 

[poosh]

@Ramare
I'd very appreciate some gameplay videos of ScrnBalance to be posted in this thread, because my old PC doesn't allow to capture good-quality videos with playable framerate.

But I don't see any point of playing in third person mode. Add here crosshair and vehicles mod and we will almost get GTA game. Do you really want to convert KF to it? I don't think so. IMHO 3rd person mode made very well to spectate or/and record videos, but playing in this mode is kindda silly. Anyway, 3rd person mode is made by Marco and implemented in ServerPerksV6, not in ScrnBalance.

@SgtHermann
You can't remove hard-coded perked weapon bonuses from the config, only add new ones.

 

[Ramare]

Killing Floor: ScrnBalance Third Person Test - YouTube
Here it is, in all of it's mediocre glory. (ft. Reggie the Magical Hat)

Like I said, it's silly, but playable. Add a crosshair and it would actually become a somewhat viable alternative for anyone who might choose it. I know that I would think it might be better for using melee weapons that way.
I'm just happy that they fixed the problem where you couldn't aim on the Y axis (that's up/down, right?) in third person.

Also, if you want more videos of this mut in action, I could try to get some good Gunslinger gameplay.

 

[poosh]

Currently I'm trying to upload this mutator to the Steam Workshop. Can somebody test if it working please?

*** EDIT
Link to workshop: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=97709811

 

[FluX]

Currently I'm trying to upload this mutator to the Steam Workshop. Can somebody test if it working please?

It shows

 

[poosh]

It shows

And it seems working too

 

[Ramare]

Interesting. I'm not necessarily in the loop, so I didn't know that the Steam Workshop for this game was released.
Well, anyway, that should increase popularity for mods, yours included.

So, on a different topic, did an update to your mod coincide with putting it on Steam Workshop? I like to keep my mods up to date if I can.

So, on a different topic (again), is it just me, or are Medi-zerkers possibly more effective than actual Berserkers in your mod? Medi-zerkers were already an alternative choice to real Berserkers in the vanilla game, but from a combination of balance changes to Berserker and enhancements to Medic, it's even better now.

Let's compare, shall we?
Berserker: Tanks a bit with resistance to damage that also enhances armor slightly.

Medic: Tanks a whole more lot with a combination of nigh-impenetrable armor and extremely enhanced self-healing.

Berserker: Has enough power to destroy any opponent if played correctly.

Medic: Can only really kill up to Siren and Husk, so it's more team oriented (besides the fact that it's a Medic after all) than a real Berserker as a Medi-zerker (which might be seen as a good thing to a lot of people, to be honest).

Berserker: Moves at a walking pace when drugging up, and it's crappy non-Medic healing and recharge rate, even.

Medic: Moves at melee movement speed when drugging up, and due to being a Medic sports increased self-healing, fractional recharge time and even increased heal rate.

Berserker: Moves slightly slower than base movement speed when using non-melee weapons (no more Gunzerking here, gentlemen).

Medic: Due to being a Medic, moves faster than base movement speed while using non-melee weapons, and also gets a discount on some pretty effective PDWs.

Berserker: Is no longer a flurry of chop-chop-chopping while using a Katana due to decrease melee speed.

Medic: Is now able to actually be effective while using a Claymore due to it having increased melee speed.

Berserker: Increased melee speed and damage required to make the Chainsaw actually effective.

Medic: Has increased movement speed with the Chainsaw, unlike Berserker.

Berserker: Generally ignores teammate due to not really being able to help them.

Medic: Can and will save teammate from the brink of death, and can and will have Medic weapons to even heal them from a distance.

Berserker: Spawns with an, in my opinion, useless Chainsaw at max perk.

Medic: Spawns with body armor and a freakin' gun at max perk.

And probably some other things I can't think of right now.

 

[poosh]

Thanks for your feedback, Ramare.

Steam Workshop is in Beta stage, so it isn't available, if you don't participate in it. Beta is open for public, but if you install it, you won't be able to join regular servers anymore. ScrN Balance released for Workshop has the same version as it is here.

Now about kiting games. First I want to say I like kiting games - it is a different game approach, unique to KF game and it is very cool. But I hate "zerk-noobing" if you know what I mean. So I tried to balance kitting game too. Now it's almost impossible to run all-zerk kitting game. Team needs Medics. At least. Gunslingers are good for kiting too, due to movement speed bonus in the Cowboy Mode. Zerkers move 15% slower when holding any non-melee weapon. so if team often needs ranged attacks, any other perk would be better than zerker for this task.

Now let's talk details.

Movement
Zerkers Melee movement speed bonus kept as in original: +30%. Beside that every player receives +20% speed while holding a melee weapon, so zerk has +56% bonus in total (1.3 * 1.2). It is max theoretical speed. In real game gun's weight that you currently hold also counts, but it slows you down only a little bit, so I won't add it to calculations. \

Medic has +18%, but it is applied for any weapon he holds. When holding melee weapon, extra +20% applied, so it is +42% in total. It is less than zerker's, but now it is granted for syringe too, so Medic can reach and heal any other player "on the fly", without need to switch between between knife and syringe.

Gunslinger in Cowboy Mode receives +20% movement speed. So Gunslinger runs with the same speed while holding dual pistols as he runs with a knife. His speed is slower than Zerker's or Medic's when holding melee weapon, but he is the fastest perk when holding ranged weapons (pistols in this case).

Other significant change: Zerker moves 15% slower while holding non-melee weapon and 30% slower when holding a Syringe. It it is worst perk for ranged shots or healing. This brings other perks back to kiting games too, e.g. if you are mostly using LAR, then you can thing to select Sharpshooter perk instead.

Zerkers now receive half of the melee speed bonus while holding Chainsaw (15% for level 6). Your finding is right - while holding a Chainsaw Medic moves 3% faster than a Zerker. But IMHO it isn't a big deal to be called a bug.

Healing
Medic Gun Drop Exploit fixed for all Medic Guns, so you can't replace Medic with Zerk carrying the Medic Gun, like you could in vanilla game.

Injections made by Medics restore 14HP per second, other perks - 8hp/s. In vanilla game all injections, no matter who made them, are restoring 10 hp/s. This is another reason to have Medic in the team.

Zerker is made super slow while healing himself. That makes impossible to heal yourself in the middle of the crowd like Zerkers can do in vanilla game. You need to manage to outrun zeds somehow, e.g. run around the corner and heal there. But better is just to have Medic in the team.

Offence and Defence.
Situation for Medic and Zerkers is unchanged from vanilla game. Zerkers always have damage resistance. Medics have super-cool armor but are vulnerable without it.

Gunslinger can't afford to wear an armor, otherwise it won't have Cowboy Mode. Without Cowboy Mode Gunslinger has no movement speed and reload bonuses and can't be efficiently used in kiting games. So he is extremely vulnerable, but in the same time he is the only one, who can use ranged perked weapons together with speed bonus (not talking about Medic, because he don't have damage bonus).
From the one side, Gunslinger CAN hold the distance from zeds when killing in kitting games. But from the other side, he MUST hold that distance, otherwise he will be killed in the matter of seconds, or even milliseconds.

My favorite kiting team load-out in ScrN Balance:
Zerkers in the front, fighting through the zeds and opening path for teammates.
Medics in the middle, healing both sides.
Gunslingers at the back, keeping crowd at distance, but killing them too.

 

[Aze]

@Ramare: I agreed with you. While Poosh most certainly tried to make sure the Berserker wasn't so overpowered, i think he overdid it in some areas, while making the Medic stronger. I think making them "tankier" and less kitey would be better. Say:

* Medic gets max speed bonus of 15% (in 5% intervals)
* Medic max armor potency reduced to 60% perhaps? (It jumps from 50% to 75% all of a sudden, while having been 10% intervals on the previous levels). Either that, or scale the bonus more appropriately with 75% max in mind. (Like, 0/15/25/35/50/65/75%?)
* Berserker gets max speed bonus of 20% (down from 30%)
* Berserker other speed nerfs by Poosh removed (the syringe and non-melee ones)
* Chainsaw counts as melee movement speed (so the Berserker runs faster with it at higher levels), but the weapon itself grants no/low movement speed bonus compared to the other melee weapons (they grant ~20% movement speed regardless of perk)
* Chainsaw primary damage increased to 30 or so, for better decaps.
* Level 5/6 spawn material for Berserker is always an issue imo, due to it being quite hard to balance. It would be interesting to try new setups:

A) The weaker startup, but potentially more money-rewarding
5 = Machete
6 = Machete + Armor

B) The more "upgrading" startup, but a direct nerf to money rewards (and harder to play with in the start too)
5 = Machete
6 = Fire Axe

C) More correct monetary reward, but imo too overpowered starting weapons:
5 = Machete or Fire Axe
6 = Katana

D) More balanced in power AND money, but little weirder bonus:
5 = Machete
6 = Fire Axe AND Machete!

Personally i think A and D are the best options for alternative starting equipment.

And now a completely different question for Poosh: Does the M7A3 also benefit from the Medic's new reload speed bonus? And the Medic's HSG-1 (KSG) too?

And that other suggestion i made for the Husk Cannon: How about having the altfire being simply more like this - It consumes 10 ammo, just like a regular fully charged shot. It also deals exactly the same burn damage as a fully charged shot. However, the consequence for not charging the shot means that you get NO impact damage on the shot and maybe a bit longer "cooldown" AFTER the shot. That means the shot is more used for long distance sniping.
Even more preferably i'd try to make the altfire more similar to the Flamethrower attack, but instead of a consistant spray, just one burst of flame, like a "breath of fire". Compared to the FT it would be a shorter flame (and still cost 10-ish ammo), but much wider, have unlimited penetration and have no "gravity". That makes the flame more of a closeby crowd handler, while the primary fire is more for longdistance attacks.

Just some ideas

 

[poosh]

@Aze
Zerker is not so bad in ScrN Balance as you described. I've won a couple solo game with it, so I know what I'm saying. Haven't tested it in full kiting team, but we've won Abusement Park with 3 players: Zerker, Medic and Gunslinger (and Zerker had most kill, btw).

Lowering down Zerker's base melee bonus will make him even less team-oriented IMHO - he won't be able to run towards to the zeds and get back to the team for support and healing. But lowering his non-melee speed brings other perks to the kiting scene too.

Giving spawn armor for Zerker isn't a good idea, because his already has built-in armor - damage resistance. Spawning with both Machete and Axe doesn't make any sense - why do you need Machete when you already have an Axe?
I like the current spawn with Chainsaw-only, counting fact that now it has moderate speed bonus and is able to stun Scrakes. Actually, stunning Scrakes with Chainsaw's secondary attack is the fasted way to kill them due to Chainsaw's fast swing.
Spawning with Machete on level 5 is kindda useless: it can't flinch Scrakes on Hard- and can't stun them on Sui+.


Medic doesn't receive reload bonus for M7A3 and KSG. The reason I add reload bonus for MP5/7 is because Medics previously tried to avoid firing with those guns - slow reloads make you unable to heal in that time. It is ridiculous that it takes longer to reload MP5 than AA12! Now Medics can freely use MP5/7 for killing too, not only for healing.
M7A3 and KSG has no reload bonus because they have high damage output (comparing to MPs) and are mostly used for killing, not healing (KSG has no healing dart at all, just magazine size bonus). But Medic shouldn't receive any bonuses, which increase his damage output IMHO.


In v3.36 (test version, not available for public download, but put on ScrN server) I completely changed secondary fire of Husk Gun. Now it doesn't concentrate on single target, dealing huge damage, but burns a lot of enemies, as Napalm should do.
Instead of launching 5 devastating projectiles (base damage = 100 each), it launches 7 projectile with moderate damage (base damage = 35). Projectile spread increased by 50%, flying speed slowed down by 20-30%. Burn radius kept huge: 12m (LAW has 10m blast radius). Now it acts much more like Napalm cloud. Ammo per shot lowered from 25 to 20, allowing level 6 Firebug to make 20 shots max.

 

[poosh]

Forgot to put version 3.36 here (version that was submitted to Steam's workshop).