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WWAUT - Continued Perk Changes

Oh wow, thank you Tripwire. Looks like you really took the feedback to heart, because a lot of us weren't entirely satisfied with the initial rework of demo. This looks considerably better. Thanks for quick response to feedback. :D

I was also not expecting to see a Commando rework, but I'm really glad to see it. I always hated having to choose between semi-auto and automatic damage because it felt like it locked you into one firing mode.

These skills are overall a huge improvement for both classes! I have a little feedback, but overall I'm quite impressed.


Hello everyone!
Demo Skills
Level 5:
Bombardier - Explosive demo weapons now do 25% more damage
Grenadier- Demo weapons fire 20% faster
Oh my, that actually is a tough choice. I'm going to assume "fire 20% faster" means faster reloading? I'm not quite sure why the name and description of the perk was changed, as this is rather confusing.

I still feel like a plain damage boost on top of the passive is a little bland, but that's honestly the biggest sin in the tree, but 25% is enough to make me forgive that. Note that that doesn't apply to the critical zone perk later in the tree since it rewards careful aiming.

Level 15:
Sonic Resistant Grenades - Demolition weapons have a 100% chance of avoiding siren scream destruction
Fragmentation Rounds - AoE of your explosions increase by 50% but AoE damage is reduced by 30%
Again, I'm not sure why the name of Siren Resistance was changed to include grenades when it apparently still affects everything, but that's just a nitpick.

Despite all the extra passives demo is getting (yay!), I still feel like Siren Resistance should be one of them, even at the cost of one of the new passives. The reason I say that is because anything that competes with it is an automatically never-used perk for most of the playerbase, myself included. I do think this is a tougher choice than it vs. door traps, since AoE can be used to partially negate screams by shooting outside its range. Still, I really doubt I'd use it over Siren Resistance.

Part of the problem is also just how many sirens spawn, and that they always spawn with fleshpounds. I get that you're trying to elicit a meaningful choice with such a powerful perk, but given the absurd amount of sirens, I cannot think of anything I'd pick over Siren Resistance besides something outrageous like triple damage.

Level 25:
Destroyer of Worlds - Previously nuke, this has been tweaked slightly
Mad Bomber - Shoot and reload in near real time
Love these. Love the new name for nuke. I'm curious as to how it was tweaked, however.

Commando Skills
Level 5:
Tactical Reload - Reload 20% faster with commando weapons
Large Mags - Commando Weapons have 50% increased mag size
Oh, this is brutal. It's a much better choice from a gameplay perspective, but not getting both is going to be hard. :p

Level 10:
Impact - Commando weapons have 150% increased stumble power
Impact is another example of imprecise wording in this update. I get that you probably mean you're increasing by 50% to a total of 150%, but your wording could easily be construed as 150% on top of the existing number, like a value going from 10 to 25, instead of 10 to 15.

I'd recommend just rewording the description to "Commando weapons gain 50% increased stumble power" or "Commando weapons' stumble power increased to 150%." This is all given that I assume correctly, of course.

Level 15:
Health Increase - Increased health and Armor by 25%
Ammo Vest - Carry 2 extra mags per commando weapon
I actually feel like the health increase is unnecessary if the passives remain. The ammo vest isn't necessary since the ammo cap increase a few updates ago. There's actually a much better alternative here, in my opinion. Keep the health passive, and remove sharing cloaked enemies with your team from the passives. The choice should go like this:

Call Out- Teammates can see cloaked enemies as well as you can
Focus Target- Teammates can see enemy health bars at x% of the range you can

Level 20:
Hollow Point Rounds - Commando Weapons do 25% more damage and have 50% less recoil
Eat Lead - Get another 50% increase in mag size for Commando Weapons
Sooooo glad to see semi-auto vs automatic removed.
 
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No, penetration really does not belong on commando. They can do enough trash killing just by spraying a few well placed bullets, they don't need to multiply that by however many zeds are lined up. If you want rapid fire penetration take AA12 or M4. Or gunslinger.

Sorry, that makes no sense.

First off, it only has to go through one zed.
Second, damage falloff can be applied to the bullets after exiting zeds.
Thirdly, How does "Hollow Point Rounds" fit the "trash killer" role but this does not?
Fourth, this perk skill would give us a real option to pick over simply dealing extra damage. Who would pick more ammo in a mag over damage, seriously?
 
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I agree with Kothre. The commando skill with the +150% stumbling power is probably not written correctly. It's probably +50%.

How much is the current stumbling power skill ? Does it change something or it's just the same skill but with a different wording ?

Finally, regarding the demo level 10 skill, I'm not sure about how I feel with this one... You basically lose 8 RPG shots for a +25% increase damage (in case you manage to direct hit) ? It's almost half of your ammo... I think it should have been a % of total ammo and not just number. I mean if you got fifty shot, losing 3 or having 5 more is not that much of a big deal... But, with 16 ammo pool (not sure about the exact number and it depends on your level anyway...) it's a big deal.

I don't think I will choose to "lose" 8 RPG shot when most of them will be shot towards the flloor (except for FP). Remember when we had only 12 rpg shot, as a level 0 demo before the ammo update ??? it's basically 75% of what we are "losing" with this skill...
 
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Still need to compare with the DEM weapon modifications but so far I think this looks like a much better choice than what we had before. Projectiles already suffer from client/server desync enough as is so forcing a perk to have to rely on that was very risky.

I was a bit surprised to see a COM skill rework. Seeing reload speed as a passive and a +50% recoil reduction is very appealing.
 
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Grenade Supplier, On Contact and Door Traps are now all passive skills for the Demolitions Perk.

Demo Skills
Armor Piercing Rounds - Direct hits to a critical zone will do an extra 50% more damage

Level 25:
Destroyer of Worlds - Previously nuke, this has been tweaked slightly

Great to see the door traps stay. They were pretty cool, but I hardly ever got a chance to use them since C4 are kinda useless without siren resist.

The changes to the tree look nice. They seem more refined to either large aoe spammy demo and high explosive big zed killer demo now.

I like the armor piercing rounds being more reliable, although random crits did sound funny. Was hoping to snag the crit code and use it to make a modded gamemode where everyone has random crits just for fun xD

Nuke was cool, but IMO it was always way OP. Hopefully whatever is replacing it will be a little more balanced in terms of damage (first thing that comes to mind is just a cooler explosion particle effect in Zed time with like 50% more damage or something).

If the bonus damage applies to dud projectiles, which it probably does since I'm assuming it applies to all on-perk damage, won't dud shots be able to like 1 hit decap scrakes with these changes?

Also the commando changes look solid to, although it was nice being able to have 50% bonus mags and tactical reload. I don't like think I'd ever take reload over those additional rounds.
 
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You can still take Tac Reload and Large Mags together but it's in the form of Eat Lead. I think I see what the tree is doing and I like it! I also think with a 100% mag increase we can start to see a rough idea of what an LMG might look like ingame - Keeping in mind that with the highest capacity you'll have slower reloads and less damage/recoil.

Interesting stuff to keep an eye on, I'd be interested to know how effective a high-cap automatic weapon performs against a typical 30-round controlled and damaging assault build.

Also, about the 150% stumble power, it may make more sense if you keep in mind how the incap system could have changed. It may have different values and everything.

Also I'm not usually one to take note of ZT skills but "Destroyer of Worlds" has me interested in what it could possibly be - And my personal bias/hope is making me think of cluster munitions, raining down...

Finally I never said it before - That railgun looks intense. Very nice!
 
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In before complaints of "demo/commando op plz nerf". ;)

But in all seriousness, holy expletives those passives and skill trees! I wonder what TWI is planning on doing regarding Sui/HoE balance because, given recent perk trends, good players will dominate even HoE. Maybe they'll add a new "Apocalypse" difficulty or something like that (wasn't HoE an after-release add-on in KF1?). Anyways, I can hardly wait to see how these changes pan out. Next stop for skill tree overhaul: Medic!

New characters are always good. Hopefully, there are no strings attached to Rae (like all of the other new characters).

And that railgun render too. This is shaping up to be one hell of an update.

As opposed to non-explosive demo weapons?

As opposed to implosive Demo weapons. Demo is getting a black hole launcher, right? Right?
 
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An australian gal? DAMN YES! I surely hope we'll get a great voice actress to back her up! I bet she'll become my new favourite (but still no Ash :( )

Didn't expect that for Commando, some choices will be tough! But that's for the best.

Also really digging that railgun, can't wait to use it!

Oh and of course, that's great for the demo. But I'm mostly waiting for a better weapon right now.
 
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