• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

What if...

Aze

Grizzled Veteran
Mar 19, 2010
1,428
521
What if... what?
Well, I would like you guys to comment on my ideas (it's a huge frikkin list!) here, like if it REALLY was a new update. Like, if this happened as the next update what would your reactions be? It's QUITE the big list of things, so please take your time and read thoroughly and then comment on what you thought was good and what was bad.

If you don't read it all, please refrain from commenting and rating :mad:

REMEMBER: Don't think of all this as something i would like to have added RIGHT NOW. See it as an update(s) for the distant future when people start craving for new content again ^^
Also, the new weapons are more about adding fun and different variety-weapons within the realms of tier 1 and tier 2, rather than adding overpowered tier 4 weapons or crazy stuff like that :p

(Note: Stuff that are marked in orange are nerfs. Completely new perks/items/weapons are marked in yellow. Buffs or neutral changes are white as normal)
So here is the BFL (Big F'in List :D):


GENERAL STUFF:
-Pickup options-
A new feature is added in your options list which deals with how you pickup weapons. There are 4 alternatives:
1) Automatic pickup. It's the same as the current one, and is also the default mode.
2) Automatic pickup, except for Dual weapons (Dual 9mm and Dual HC). If there is another HC or 9mm on the ground and you DO want to pick it up, you have to look at the weapon and press E when close enough, then you will pick it up.
3) Manual pickup, except for weapons thrown at you. All weapons on the ground have to be manually picked up with the E-button, but if someone throws you a weapon and you have room (Dual 9mm and Dual HCs do not count for this), you will automatically pick them up (Think of it as a "reflex" to catch them)
4) Fully manual pickup. Will ONLY pick up weapons manually with the E-button. If someone throws you a weapon, it will pass right through you. However, if someone throws you a weapon you can catch it if you look at it and you hold the E-button down.

EDIT:
-Stuns-
Specimen that are completely stunned (with heads hanging etc), no longer follows your movement (as of now, they always move to face you even when stunned) when you circle around them. This allows you to get around stunned enemies and attack their backs, allowing the Berserker to get better use of his double damage done on "backstabs" :)


BERSERKER:
-Perk stuff-
* Now spawns with different equipment at level 5 and 6. This is especially due to the newfound strength of the Chainsaw.
Level 5 - Machete or Axe
Level 6 - Machete+Armor or Axe+Armor

-Knife-
* Ironsight button now also does the Powerstrike (the Secondary Fire attack)

-Fire Axe-
* Primary fire can cleave through a specimen and further hit another specimen (Max 2 enemies hit this way, and the next enemy hit is only dealt 75% damage of the previous one) Only works as Berserker.
* Ironsight button throws the Axe forward with heavy force (Link for the animation: http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=46393). Throwing the Axe deals more damage. More info about the benefits is in the link.

-Machete-
* Can now be dualwielded and, like the Axe, also able to be thrown with the ironsight button! (Animation is in the same link as the Axe link).
* Dualwielded Machetes weigh 2. (1+1=2!!!!! xD)
* Attack speed with primary fire is double using the Dual Machetes (Meaning double DPS)
* The secondary fire deals double damage compared to a single Machete's powerstrike (Also = double DPS)

-Katana-
* Secondary fire can now also autoattack, and can cleave through a specimen and further hit another specimen (Max 2 enemies hit this way, and the next enemy hit is only dealt 75% damage of the previous one).
* Ironsight button now also does the Powerstrike (the Secondary Fire attack)

-Chainsaw-
* Ironsight button now also does the Powerstrike (the Secondary Fire attack)
* Unsure about this but: Now has fuel, but deals even more damage?
The damage of the secondary fire could be that of the Fire Axe (maybe SLIGHTLY less, but enough to stun a Scrake on a headhit at least). While it may seem overpowered think about that the Chainsaw has multiple drawbacks: Heavy weight, limited use due to the fuel and you don't run so fast with it. Imo, it seems balanced.


COMMANDO:
-Perk stuff-
* The Stalker kill count now also counts Crawlers, but the total amount is increased a bit.

-Bullpup-
* Weight reduced to 5, from 6
* Total mag amount reduced to 9, from 10 (total bullets down to 360 from 400 nonperked. As level 6, down to 450 from 500) (The ammo reduction is balancing due to the lesser weight)

-AK47-
* Headshot multiplier increased to 1.3, from 1.1 (NOTE: I'm not sure about this buff, but the AK47 needs SOMETHING to become a bit different from the other 2 weapons)

-SCAR-
* Weight increased to 7, from 5.
* Can now pierce one target (Next target recieves only 50% damage) similar to the Handcannon. This makes it better at clearing crowds without the need of improving its initial damage.
* Receives the Lasersight from the EBR, but the Scope is removed. This makes the SCAR worse at longer ranges (but still not bad), but even quicker to use at close range. The laser is always turned on, or if necessary, toggled with the Flashlight button (F) (Secondary fire switches between auto/semi)


NEW WEAPON:
- Assault Rifle w. Underslung Grenade Launcher (AR+UGL in short) -
Added as a second tier 2 weapon for the Commando, and is also a tier 2 for the Demolitions. Its burstfire (no auto/semi on this one) along with its grenade launcher makes it QUITE different from the other Commando weapons.
Weapon info:
Weight - 7
Cost - 1500
 
Last edited:
Well this is one very long effort post and I have to say, very nice indeed! :IS2:

I like your take on the Gunslinger what with the exclusive ability to dual-wield the MAC10, alike to how the Firebug can use incendiary ammo with it.

I don't have much of a stance on the Chainsaw fuel thing, but I will say it would be a bugger to code.

I fully agree with the dualwielable machetes, and well, we gotta thank yomommassis for providing the concept for it.

I can't say much about the stalker and crawler kill count. If the kill count is to be increased, it should be quite a lot. I also enjoy the changes of the SCAR and bullpup.

I support the idea of an underslung grenade-gun assault rifle because I like to think how it can work being shared between the commando and demolition perks. For the model however, I would support this. It's not the overly common M16/M4 variant you get in games these days, and as an added bonus, it could get the COD and CS rats to shut up for once.

The demolition's hand grenade discount would be worth it, possibly
 
  • Like
Reactions: Foxyfired and Aze
Upvote 0
I'll pass.
That's ok. But did you read it? If you didn't, i hope it wasn't you who voted down on me. Cuz this bloody text took me more than 4 hours to put together, going in and out of Killing Floor to get numbers, to get the colours right etc. Either way, good day to you sir!


Well this is one very long effort post and I have to say, very nice indeed! :IS2:
Thanks alot :)
And warning: Multiquoting coming up :D

I like your take on the Gunslinger what with the exclusive ability to dual-wield the MAC10, alike to how the Firebug can use incendiary ammo with it.
Hmm, im a bit confused by what you mean by this. Anyhow, some clarification: Did you see that i removed the MAC10 entirely from the Firebug? The MAC10 is no longer incendiary in ANY WAY, that's why the Sterling was added for the Firebug in the first place.

In short:
Used to be:
*Mac10 a Firebug weapon with incendiary ammo

My suggestion:
*Mac10 a dualwieldable Gunslinger normal-ammunitioned weapon
*Sterling a Firebug weapon using Incendiary ammo.

I don't have much of a stance on the Chainsaw fuel thing, but I will say it would be a bugger to code.
Well, i don't care much for the Chainsaw either. Even after the current patch's buff, i still think it is rather weak. The Katana any day over the Chainsaw. That's why i was suggesting it to be a REALLY strong weapon, but balancing it with a fuel tank.
Anyhow, since my suggestions certainly makes the Machete, Fire Axe and Katana quite different, i think the Chainsaw could need all that to make it different from the others too.

I fully agree with the dualwielable machetes, and well, we gotta thank yomommassis for providing the concept for it.
Oh yes we certinaly have to thank yomommassis for this! I first thought the idea was silly when looking at his thread topic, but then i saw the animations, loved it and even suggested further stuff for melee weapons, like the throwable Fire Axe! :D
That man is an animation genuis :)

I can't say much about the stalker and crawler kill count. If the kill count is to be increased, it should be quite a lot. I also enjoy the changes of the SCAR and bullpup.
Think of it this way:
While it does make the Commando rather much easier to level, it also encourages Commandos to kill the bloody bugs, which is one of the perk's many strengths to do easily (But noobs so frustratingly seem to lack the attention to kill! :mad:) "Forcing" them to kill Crawlers will make the Commandos more prone to kill them and learn the noobs that they can get a higher killscore by prioritizing them and Stalkers ^^

I support the idea of an underslung grenade-gun assault rifle because I like to think how it can work being shared between the commando and demolition perks. For the model however, I would support this. It's not the overly common M16/M4 variant you get in games these days, and as an added bonus, it could get the COD and CS rats to shut up for once.
I like that weapon link :) I was afraid to suggest any specific Assault Rifle cuz i don't wanna be bashed by you COD and CS haters, plus, frankly, i don't care what Assault Rifle it would look like, as long as it looks nice. Your pic link, for example, looks like an absolutely delicious (albeit very classic, but that's not bad either) suggestion ^^

The demolition's hand grenade discount would be worth it, possibly
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Stopped reading at this point, sorry, can't really take this bull**** and already must say NO.

Being ignorant is never good dude. You really should read further. If you did, it said that the Firebug gets the Sterling as its replacer, with almost the exact same behaviour (it's actually a bit stronger than the Mac10), and that the Mac10 can be dualwielded. In addition to that, the Firebug also gets the Husk Cannon.

But if you don't wanna read cuz your are afraid of changes, be my guest!
 
Upvote 0
Being ignorant is never good dude. You really should read further. If you did, it said that the Firebug gets the Sterling as its replacer, with almost the exact same behaviour (it's actually a bit stronger than the Mac10), and that the Mac10 can be dualwielded. In addition to that, the Firebug also gets the Husk Cannon.

But if you don't wanna read cuz your are afraid of changes, be my guest!

FIREBUG:

-Mac10-
* ... *gulp*, dare i write this? Well, the Mac10 is removed from the Firebug (DON'T KILL ME, KEEP READING!). The Mac10 now belongs to the Gunslinger.
See who's ignorant. I even highlighted what's the prob, yet you even started defending totally different problem. I liked the ideas before I just read that cursed name...
 
Upvote 0
See who's ignorant. I even highlighted what's the prob, yet you even started defending totally different problem. I liked the ideas before I just read that cursed name...

Well, my pardon on that behalf, but did you read my version of the Gunslinger? I'm not supporting the exact same Gunslinger as Brphoenix. It's in the lowest part of my suggestion. Also, be sure to read my changes to the Sharpshooter too as it is quite heavily affected.

Either way, you liked what you read all the way (more or less) until you see ONE word and you stop reading?
... Ok?
 
Upvote 0
Edited a tiny thing in the suggestion:

The Gunslingers perk bonus "ZED reaction" no longer includes an increased rate of fire (cuz the rof is limited either way) with non-autopistols.

Instead of the rof boost, during ZED time, your semiautomatic pistols turn fullauto. That way, if ZED time triggers, you can get some mayhem going on by just holding down primary fire :)

So ZED reaction was changed, so now it instead provides:
*Slight movement speed boost (as before)
*Big boost in reloadspeed (as before)
*Big boost in recoil reduction (as before)
*Fullautomatic behaviour on semiauto pistols (instead of the previous RoF boost)
 
Upvote 0
Either way, you liked what you read all the way (more or less) until you see ONE word and you stop reading?
Yes
did you read my version of the Gunslinger? [...]Also, be sure to read my changes to the Sharpshooter too as it is quite heavily affected.
Yes. After stopped reading I just skipped to Ginslinger, saw it's remake of Sharpshooter so read SS as well.

You know what basically I don't like?
1. ZED time. Already is Commandos and Zerker's bonus. No matter if looks same or not - ZED TIME affected is already too much. Gunslinger would be too OP
2. I like Magnums and pistols as they are. I don't want this change in speed n such.
3. Fact I didn't get like wtf seeing the rest was it was just... somewhat suggested alot before and I mostly said "yes" so why repeat?
 
Upvote 0
That actually sounds hilariously fun.

Where's Yoyo or Yomo when you need them? :IS2:

Hehe ^^
Well it's a new turn on it isn't it? I think it was 9_6 who once suggested that when you dualwield 9mm or HC, you can go fullauto all the time. I thought it was a cool idea, but also a bit too strong. So, i gave it a twist: Only active during ZED time! So thank 9_6 for the inspiration too :)

Yes

Yes. After stopped reading I just skipped to Ginslinger, saw it's remake of Sharpshooter so read SS as well.

You know what basically I don't like?
1. ZED time. Already is Commandos and Zerker's bonus. No matter if looks same or not - ZED TIME affected is already too much. Gunslinger would be too OP
2. I like Magnums and pistols as they are. I don't want this change in speed n such.
3. Fact I didn't get like wtf seeing the rest was it was just... somewhat suggested alot before and I mostly said "yes" so why repeat?

Remake of Sharpshooter? REALLY? Can't you see how DIFFERENT it is?!
Run n Gun bonus (100% new thing)? ZED "reaction" bonus (which is a 100% new idea)? Pistol draw speed bonus (also 100% new bonus!)? The general bonus of this perk is the RECOIL (like the Commando has RELOAD bonus to all weapons, and Sharpis has HEADSHOT bonus to all weapons) which is also new...

There is ofc pistol damage bonus, pistol reload speed bonus and pistol discount ... but that's what almost ALL perks have in common for their weapons! You STILL think it's just a second Sharpshooter perk?

EDIT: Forgot the 3 points! Here i go:
1) Wether you like ZED time or not, it's here to stay. And, my bonus is not just another "zed time extender", but rather a benefactor from it, which goes along well with it's adaptive style. What i mean is, if you help a Zerker or Commando, you benefit quite alot from it if they rack up ZED time chains.
2) Umm what? They stay the same. I PREVIOUSLY had a RoF bonus in ZED time, but i recently changed it. Take a look again :)
3) So (can't really tell what you are trying to say on this point), you are basicly saying the perk is ok? Or what are you trying to say?
You said get rid of the mac10 in one part, now you want dual wielded? Way to contradict yourself.

Ah, i used the wrong wording i guess, which may confuse people. It's what BenioX said:

He said get rid of mac10 from firebug to give it to Gunslinger who'd have it dualwielded. Learn how 2 read :IS2: JK :rolleyes:
Everyone can make/do a mistake (grammar fail)

^ Exactly that
The Mac10 goes from a Firebug weapon to a Gunslinger weapon. The Mac10 also becomes dualwieldable, but no longer has anything "incendiary" about it. As a replacer for the Mac10 for the Firebug you get the new weapon "Sterling Incendiary".

I will reword the text a little so it's easier to understand :)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Why not have the MAC10 be a multiuse weapon, and be only akimbo for gunslingers, and only incendiary for firebugs?

What use does the proposed Firebug weapon do over the current MAC10?

Already the mac is incendiary for only the firebug, why not expand it's perk-based-abilities to the gunslinger, making it a multi-use weapon?
 
Upvote 0
good effort to make such a long post, I dident get to sift through it all. one thing I can say is that I HATE any game that forces me to use burst fire on guns where I could realistically set atleast semi, preferably also auto.

Why i do understand it might be annoying (which actually is a good thing, more to that later) there are multiple reasons for it to be a burstfire:
* It makes it different from the other rifles.
* It becomes a bit "annoying" to use, when you want to headshot a single weak target (Like a Clot) wasting bullets that way. But that is good, because then the weapon is more designed towards killing groups(or "sweeping", which is the niche of the commando anyway :))
* If it had fullauto AND its grenade launcher, it might become a bit TOO versatile. However, the burstfire can be fullauto (you don't need to click for each burst), but with minor intervals between each burst. Like (sorry for the silly display):
dundundun-dundundun-dundundun and so on :p

Why not have the MAC10 be a multiuse weapon, and be only akimbo for gunslingers, and only incendiary for firebugs?

What use does the proposed Firebug weapon do over the current MAC10?

Already the mac is incendiary for only the firebug, why not expand it's perk-based-abilities to the gunslinger, making it a multi-use weapon?

Glad you asked :)
There are multiple reasons for this.

* Having one weapon being able to level 2 perks at once when you shoot with ONE bullet is not a good design in this game (Note: This is different from the Rifle+Bayonet and the AR+UGL, because you need to use 2 different attacks for that. Primary fire levels one perk, secondary fire levels the other. What you are asking/suggesting, would make primary fire level TWO PERKS AT ONCE). One fire mode should level max ONE perk. However, something like the MP7's bullets being able to level/benefit from Commando and its darts level/benefit from the Medic would be a good design, cuz you don't level 2 perks at the same time with ONE fire mode. What i mean is, firing with the MP7's darts wouldn't level the Commando AND the Medic. You need to do 2 different things to level the 2 perks.

* Having akimbo only for Gunslinger would feel a bit sad for the other perks if they wanted to dualwield. If the Mac10 only gets dualwieldable as Gunslinger, then 9mm and HC should also only be dualwieldable as Gunslinger. But no other weapon has such a restriction, so i don't see the point of restricting it like that.

* The purpose of the new Sterling is to be able to make the Mac10 a Gunslinger weapon. But then you might ask: Why not just add another fullauto pistol which is only for the Gunslinger, and keep the Mac10 as a Firebug weapon? Well, once again, multiple reasons for that
a) That would make the new autopistol too similar in style to the Mac10
b) The point of adding the Sterling is to make the Incendiary weapon a bit heavier (5 or 6 weight instead of 4. Mac10 wouldn't make sense with 5 or 6 in weight) and then it is safer to make the weapon use incendiary ammo at all times, cuz the heavier weight means it is harder to carry for other perks than the Mac10 is. Making it heavier also allows for a tiny buff in damage.
In addition to that, it is also added so you can reduce the weight of the Flamethrower, cuz the Flamethrower right now is a LITTLE too heavy for its usage.
c) The sterling looks more like a "fiery" weapon. Fyi, the Sterling was even the weapon they based the laser-weapons for the Stormtroopers in first Star Wars movies on! If laser isn't hot enough for you, then what is? ;) The Sterling also has more similar looks to the Flamethrower: A mag on the side, similar to the handle on the Flamethrower and holes in the front of it's gunbarrel, again similar to the Flamethrower

I hope that's good enough answers for you :)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Pickups:
Would be somewhat hard to code all these variations and, except accidentally picking up dualies or DHCs, the auto-pickup is working well.


BERSERKER:
Throwing should be a separate thread and isn't discussed or defended here.
Chainsaw ammo is questionable, but might work.
Most changes require more work than can reasonably be expected for very little return on new content.


COMMANDO:
Crawler count: TWI hasn't changed this dispite constant complaining, so don't expect it now.

Weapon changes: The weapons are quite similar, but the changes are arbitrary, except for the AK which doesn't quite fit in with perk style.

NEW WEAPON:
- Assault Rifle w. Underslung Grenade Launcher (AR+UGL in short) : Dual-perk weapons have may things to address since not included before including trader placement, bonuses for perks, and leveling with weapon.


DEMOLITIONS:
-Perk stuff-
LAW weight reduction: Seems to make the LAW way too good with the new buffs.

-Pipebombs-
A good way to deal with the pipes and quite like the UT2k4 det-pack weapon. Would require a vast overhaul of the weapon, though.

NEW WEAPON:
-PAW-20 Neopup-
Does demo really need another weapon?


FIELD MEDIC:

NEW WEAPON:
-MP5/10 (w. Flashlight) -
Medic generally wants a powerful weapon, rather than a spammy weapon, because they are going to spend most of their time healing and most perks are very good at dealing with mobs. The MP7 is ok because it lets you ranged heal and gives you an option for light self-defense. You suggestion is counter-intuitive to this.


FIREBUG:
-Perk stuff-
* The Firebug gets a faster recharge on the Welder and the new weapon, THE HUSK CANNON! Note: The Welder now also counts as a weapon that deals fire damage.

-Flamethrower-
* Weight reduced to 8, from 10 (Not just a random change, but it's related to the 2 next changes for the Firebug)

NEW WEAPON:
-Sterling Incendiary-
WHY? Can't you give a different weapon to another perk? Clearly, there are not enough small-arms sub machine guns in existence.


NEW WEAPON:
-Husk Cannon-
Cool, but unnecessary.

-Welder-
Done in WTFmut, but different than yours.


SUPPORT SPECIALIST:
-Perk stuff & NEW WEAPON:
No. Support is fine as is.

SHARPSHOOTER:
Addressed in gunslinger.


*NEW PERK !!! *
GUNSLINGER:
-Perk stuff-
Much of your changes require TWI to make a new perk, out of all the perk that have been suggested, spend time on new weapons and balancing for entirely changed perks, and do this when exactly. After they finish RO2:HOS? Maybe then they might have the time, but most of the changes make TWI's job harder and require lots of work for little change in game-play.

tr;dl:
Most of these suggestions are unnecessary, particularly if your gunslinger isn't added. Mind you a 60+ page thread on a quite similar perk didn't get it into the game. Also it is a huge pain to respond to posts like this and most of these could have had a separate thread so they each are properly addressed.
 
Upvote 0