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What if...

Pickups:
Would be somewhat hard to code all these variations and, except accidentally picking up dualies or DHCs, the auto-pickup is working well.
Sure, the auto-pickup works fine right now. But it would be a nice added option, right?

BERSERKER:
Throwing should be a separate thread and isn't discussed or defended here.
Chainsaw ammo is questionable, but might work.
Most changes require more work than can reasonably be expected for very little return on new content.
Throwing: Alright, but the reason i add everything here in the first place is because i want to see how you forumites would've reacted to all this if this was an actual update! :)
Chainsaw: Note that if ammo is added, the power of it must go up a bit more.
Other changes: Would make the game more FUN and differentiate the weapons more (which is still needed). Right now the Machete is pointless for the Zerker. If it would be dualwieldable / throwable, it has a whole new level of usage for the Zerker as well.

COMMANDO:
Crawler count: TWI hasn't changed this dispite constant complaining, so don't expect it now.

Weapon changes: The weapons are quite similar, but the changes are arbitrary, except for the AK which doesn't quite fit in with perk style.

NEW WEAPON:
- Assault Rifle w. Underslung Grenade Launcher (AR+UGL in short) : Dual-perk weapons have may things to address since not included before including trader placement, bonuses for perks, and leveling with weapon.
Crawler: Nagging some more could help ;) But would YOU like if it was added?
Weapon change: Well the SCAR gets quite a change, don't you think? Piercing shots would make the SCAR a "full auto HC", and a weapon you really would like to have. Then you choose either AK or Bullpup along with it, depending on what you need/want/can get. The AK change i did i don't like myself, but i feel the AK needs a bit of a differentiation from the other 2. That boost was just something temporary. Any advice to make it more different than the other 2?
AR+UGL: Well, you are basicly not saying anything here. What do you think of it? Do you like it or not?

DEMOLITIONS:
-Perk stuff-
LAW weight reduction: Seems to make the LAW way too good with the new buffs.

-Pipebombs-
A good way to deal with the pipes and quite like the UT2k4 det-pack weapon. Would require a vast overhaul of the weapon, though.

NEW WEAPON:
-PAW-20 Neopup-
Does demo really need another weapon?
LAW: Well, maybe, but i think it would make the LAW a bit more flexible. Remember, if you go LAW+M79, you can't carry Pipes, Machete or anything else extra.
Pipebombs: Cool. Yeah, i rather have a direct cap than an illusionary cap through extreme money cost
PAW-20: Well... no not really. I just thought it would be a neat weapon. But it is far from necessary to add, especially if the AR+UGL would be added.

FIELD MEDIC:

NEW WEAPON:
-MP5/10 (w. Flashlight) -
Medic generally wants a powerful weapon, rather than a spammy weapon, because they are going to spend most of their time healing and most perks are very good at dealing with mobs. The MP7 is ok because it lets you ranged heal and gives you an option for light self-defense. You suggestion is counter-intuitive to this.
Just like the PAW-20 (but a little less so) i was unsure of this weapon. The reason i suggested a SMG was because the MP7 is an SMG. To follow a theme, Medic uses SMGs and Commando uses Assault Rifles. But i would love to hear other ideas rather than the MP5/10. But i guess Medic would really like having a new weapon, no?

NEW WEAPON:
-Sterling Incendiary-
WHY? Can't you give a different weapon to another perk? Clearly, there are not enough small-arms sub machine guns in existence.

NEW WEAPON:
-Husk Cannon-
Cool, but unnecessary.

-Welder-
Done in WTFmut, but different than yours.
Sterling: Well i refer to the last post where i responded to timurs questions, read that one and see if it "enlightens" you (no pun intended)
Husk: To me, a tier 3 / special is kinda "necessary", in the name of equal treatment at least. Also, this tier 3 wouldn't be another SUPERDUPERMEGADPS weapon on single targets, like most other tier 3 weapons are. This one is instead an efficient weapon (unlimited ammo) and more of an aoe weapon (think weaker and less aoe than Incendiary grenades) to handle crowds.


SUPPORT SPECIALIST:
-Perk stuff & NEW WEAPON:
No. Support is fine as is.
First: The new support weapon is kinda "eh" i guess, so let's leave it at that. But regarding the Support perk itself (and all the weight changes on weapons and as perk bonuses)
-Imo, i think the weights on the Support perk is way off. You can't grab 2 shotguns together until level 3 or so. That's not good design as it heavily reduces your levelling speed in the early levels. My suggestion allows 2 Shotguns (Shotgun + Hunting Shottie) already from level 0 Support!
-The massive weight bonuses on Support allows you to carry a crapload of equipment, which is not even the perk's own weaponry (You can carry Katana, M79, Dual HC, Mac10, MP7 and still have 6 space left. That's just not right... imo that is. My suggestion restricts this a bit more)
-Shotguns are basicly bad to carry offperk, since they more or less reduces your loadout by ALOT, while not providing that much or yourself anyway. This is also slightly reduced with my suggestion.

SHARPSHOOTER:
Addressed in gunslinger.

*NEW PERK !!! *
GUNSLINGER:
-Perk stuff-
Much of your changes require TWI to make a new perk, out of all the perk that have been suggested, spend time on new weapons and balancing for entirely changed perks, and do this when exactly. After they finish RO2:HOS? Maybe then they might have the time, but most of the changes make TWI's job harder and require lots of work for little change in game-play.
Ofc it requires alot of work? I'm not oblivious to that you know. Let it take the time it takes. But, you haven't said anything wether you like the Gunslinger or not in here. Do you like my version of it?

Also it is a huge pain to respond to posts like this and most of these could have had a separate thread so they each are properly addressed.
If it were in seperate threads, the "wholeness", the "bigger picture" would completely disappear. If i did seperate threads, i would have to refer to other threads back and forth which would be AN EVEN BIGGER PAIN to handle.
And I don't mind lengthy responses. In fact, i would love someone to go into every single detail with a huge post for me to debatte over and discuss which things are good or bad. You did quite the big response btw, and i thank you for that. :)
 
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tr;dl:
Most of these suggestions are unnecessary, particularly if your gunslinger isn't added. Mind you a 60+ page thread on a quite similar perk didn't get it into the game. Also it is a huge pain to respond to posts like this and most of these could have had a separate thread so they each are properly addressed.
Agreed.
 
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terrible ranting; didn't look-at

tr; dl

I though everyone knew this.

I've NEVER seen it as tr;dl :confused: (up until now that is :p)

Only as tl;dr (Too long; didn't read)


Hey Candlejack! You said you had a Shotgun you were working on, care to share your info with me? :) If it's good enough, i might change my Slug Shotgun (has had horrible reception so far) with yours. Or, maybe with the Rivet Cannon from the other thread :rolleyes:
 
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I've NEVER seen it as tr;dl :confused: (up until now that is :p)

Only as tl;dr (Too long; didn't read)


Hey Candlejack! You said you had a Shotgun you were working on, care to share your info with me? :) If it's good enough, i might change my Slug Shotgun (has had horrible reception so far) with yours. Or, maybe with the Rivet Cannon from the other thread :rolleyes:

Here it is:

4184.JPG


The Franchi SPAS15.

SPAS15:
Damage: 31x7 – Shotgun has 35x7; 4 less per pellet
Weight: 9 – Shotgun is 8, AA12 is 10
Ammo capacity: 6 shells per magazine, 9+1 mags, 60 shells total
Fire Rate: Semi Auto only- differentiated from the AA12 by lower mag size and less sustained fire; for quick follow-up shots, not spamming away.Reload Speed: 2.62secs
Spread: 1450 loose choke, 750 tight choke
Alt-Fire: toggle choke – tight for range, loose for CQB
Headshot Bonus: 1.65
Maximum Penetrations: 2
Penetration Damage Reduction: *0.55
Price:
 
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I remember reading about Varichoke a long time ago, and i thought...

...that's an awesome idea!

A question though, the spread (1450 contra 750), do you know the spread on the other weapons perchance? :)

EDIT: Oh and what is your opinion of my suggestions?

EDIT2: And who are all these people voting me down? >:[ Tell me what the problems are. If it's too much to read, don't vote then *evil glare*
 
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tr;dl:
Most of these suggestions are unnecessary, particularly if your gunslinger isn't added.

Well, basicly ALL suggestions made in this "Ideas & Suggestions"-forum are in essence unnecessary. At least right now after this awesome update. The game works fine without new stuff, but then, what is the point of this whole section in the forums in the first place??

My point with this thread is because, in the future when people crave for more stuff, they would like (on top of new maps and specimen) some new weapons. But, would you like to have tier 4 weapons? I wouldn't like that, and i guess most others wouldn't like that either. However, i would like more tier 1 and tier 2 weapons for variety, which is exactly what im suggesting.

Variety adds fun, so with that in mind, suggestions like these are not really "unnecessary" for the sake of revitalizing the game in the future.
 
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Alright, this is my first post in the Tripwire Forum, but i've registered specifically so i can reply to this thread, which i've been following since it started.
First of all, I love that you've put so much time into these ideas, most of them are quite good, but some could use a little work or just scrapping in general in my opinion, keep that in mind).
The thing i love the most is the Gunslinger class, a new class would really revitalise the game because of everyone trying to get it up to level 6. So that's a fantastic idea. It would also be nice to have a class that is designed for speed and firearms, unlike the beserker class that is speed and melee, so your class also fills that requirement. As for the zed time idea in the class, it would be a really unique part of the game for a class to be able to be able to really utilise the slow mo. This Gunslinger reminds a lot of Cowboys... :p So yeah, I reckon keep up the work with this class.
The Shotgun that was mentioned just a few posts ago sounds awesome, it really would be different to the other shotguns which would be pretty cool to use. I myself am a shotgun man so i like the idea of being able to choose how the weapon fires.
As for the demolitions new grendae launcher and the pipebombs, i believe that both problems can be fixed in one new weapon. A sticky grenade launcher. You fire the grenades either at a wall or an enemy (or an team mate :p) and you alternate click to detonate. Of course you would have to limit the amount of grenades available at one tme per person, but that can be figured out if people actually like the idea. The pipe bombs i believe shouldn't be limited to a certain number per person because they're already quite expensive, so you can't really get that many anyway if you aren't the demolitions class. For example, i'll generally use pipe bombs to compliment a class; I'll use Commando and have the Scar and 2 Pipe Bombs, which I'll plant for the Scrakes and FleshPounds.
The medic idea I don't quite understand, so I can't really have an opinion of it. I believe that a new medic weapon is neccessary but what that weapon could be I have no idea. I really like the idea of the MP7 MedicGun being able to get the medic class up by firing the medic syringes and get the Commando class up by standard firing. That would be really cool. Multiclass weapons would really change the way you use some weapons.
The firebug weapon of the husk cannon is cool, and I like the idea of charge. I'm not sure about all the details on it, but it is certainly a good idea. I also like the MAc10 being removed to the gunslinger class where it acn be dual wielded and not have incendiary ammo at all.
The Besrerker: Dual wield machettes is awesome, chainsaw fuel and added damage I don't like, power strikes are awesome for each weapon. I also think some more melee weapons woud be appreaciated, they don't even have to be that varied, but after watching Shaun Of The Dead, i see everything as a weapon. Even if it were something funny like a bondage whip or something like that. The idea of throwing the Fire Axe is also cool, but you'd have to be very careful when you chose to utilise that ability :p. Maybe make it so all these new things (apart from new weapons of course) are available to the individual perks. Example, only Gunslinger could Dual wield pistols and only beserker could dual wield machettes and throw fire axe? Just a suggestion.
I agree completely with the fact that the Commando weapons need to be distinguished from one another a little better. The gun you suggested would fit the bill perfect so good work with that.
I believe I've covered everything, I hope that my opinions have helped to enlighten you a little in what were cool ideas and what were not.
Disclaimer: (Please remember everyone that this is what i think, it doesn't mean that those weapons are good or bad, it is simply what I believe)
 
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You know, we cant like or dislike your post because there is so many things. We can enjoy some idea and really hate other things.

Is it so important to like/dislike posts? Isn't it better to say which things you enjoy and the things you really hate by posting them with responses instead so i can keep the good stuff contra improve/remove the bad stuff?

I see this thread changed a topic :D

Wonder why? Maybe because it's easier to just skim through, say "tl;dr" or "I'll pass" and give a bad rating instead of reading the bloody thing and give thorough and constructive commenting?
Like you Beniox: You didn't even read the whole thing, yet you immediately bashed the Gunslinger idea and assumed it was "a watered down Shapshooter", when it clearly is not?

You guys complain that people never explain their things thoroughly enough, and when i do so, also including everything in one thread so the bigger picture doesn't fall apart, you nag about how it's too long?
So, if i would rather split everything down to multiple threads instead, you guys complain "what's the point of all this?" (because the bigger picture is lost) and also probably say "stop thread-spamming" ...

It's a lose-lose situation on these forums apparently.

Anyway, I'm bumping this thread with an update:
* The Slug Shotgun idea is replaced with the Rivet Cannon (whole credit goes to E(rik)). The thread about that weapon and the comment from C_Biggy took up that it might be too good for sniping, which gave me ideas how to balance it to not be too good at longer ranges. Please read the details of the weapon i have on it :)
 
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@Aze

You took a lot of time to explain your idea and have shown cognizance of balance, which is good, but TWI isn't going to have the time to make and test all these changes at once, perhaps ever. By unnecessary, I mean that most of the changes are just side-grades; they don't add to the game, they just change the game slightly in many cases to accommodate the gunslinger.
me said:
Most changes require more work than can reasonably be expected for very little return on new content.
Basically, you are suggesting:
1. Gunslinger (questionable and unlikely)
2. Overhaul the pipes (good but unlikely)
3. Add a ton of weapons (they have a ton of community content to draw from so it's possible, but probably not your suggestions)
4. Lots of tweeks (don't change much)

We complain either way because you aren't thinking enough. Anyone can spam ideas but to find ones that are worth-while is much harder.
 
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Alright, this is my first post in the Tripwire Forum, but i've registered specifically so i can reply to this thread, which i've been following since it started.
First of all, I love that you've put so much time into these ideas, most of them are quite good, but some could use a little work or just scrapping in general in my opinion, keep that in mind).
Wow, thanks alot for that comment :) Really appreciate it! And yes, ofc some ideas could need work/scrapping, im aware of that ^^

The thing i love the most is the Gunslinger class, a new class would really revitalise the game because of everyone trying to get it up to level 6. So that's a fantastic idea. It would also be nice to have a class that is designed for speed and firearms, unlike the beserker class that is speed and melee, so your class also fills that requirement. As for the zed time idea in the class, it would be a really unique part of the game for a class to be able to be able to really utilise the slow mo. This Gunslinger reminds a lot of Cowboys... :p So yeah, I reckon keep up the work with this class.
Hehe yeah a new class like this would be really nice, plus it could solve alot of problems for the Sharpshooter (since it takes his handguns away) allowing the Sharpshooter to be buffed a little again.
Remember though, while i did make alot of unique ideas for the class, the original idea which i built it on was Brphoenix's Gunslinger class. I took his idea and tried (as much as i could so far) to make it a new perk which has unique features :)

The Shotgun that was mentioned just a few posts ago sounds awesome, it really would be different to the other shotguns which would be pretty cool to use. I myself am a shotgun man so i like the idea of being able to choose how the weapon fires.
Yeah, CandleJack's shotgun was a great idea! While i liked that one really much, i preferred the Rivet Cannon even more as it was quite alot "fresher". If the Rivet Cannon idea is shot down, I hope at least CandleJack's Shotgun is added into the game :p

As for the demolitions new grendae launcher and the pipebombs, i believe that both problems can be fixed in one new weapon. A sticky grenade launcher. You fire the grenades either at a wall or an enemy (or an team mate :p) and you alternate click to detonate. Of course you would have to limit the amount of grenades available at one tme per person, but that can be figured out if people actually like the idea. The pipe bombs i believe shouldn't be limited to a certain number per person because they're already quite expensive, so you can't really get that many anyway if you aren't the demolitions class. For example, i'll generally use pipe bombs to compliment a class; I'll use Commando and have the Scar and 2 Pipe Bombs, which I'll plant for the Scrakes and FleshPounds.
One thing first, which i think you missed: While i did add a limit to how many pipebombs that could be added, i also reduced the price. The INITIAL price of the bombs is still 1500, yes (since you also get a remote control then), but if you want to buy more pipebombs (after the first 2 are used) each bomb only costs 500 each. (The initial price is so high, cuz otherwise it gets used too much non-perked) So that means the bombs would be quite alot cheaper for the Demolitions perk.
In fact, the pipebomb discount for Demolitions can be increased further, since the bombs are so limited anyway.

Also, while i do enjoy the thought of sticky bombs/grenades, i must ask: Is it in a Call of Duty game? If it is, then it will not be treated nicely on these forums, no matter how balanced/cool the idea is. Just saying :rolleyes:

The medic idea I don't quite understand, so I can't really have an opinion of it. I believe that a new medic weapon is neccessary but what that weapon could be I have no idea.
Well, my idea was just another Sub-machine gun, but a bit heavier and more powerful than the MP7. However, it has no Medic dart on it, only a flashlight. So see it as an offensive Medic weapon.

I really like the idea of the MP7 MedicGun being able to get the medic class up by firing the medic syringes and get the Commando class up by standard firing. That would be really cool. Multiclass weapons would really change the way you use some weapons.
Yeah i suggested it in mind with the thought that people sometimes refrain from using it to kill stuff, since it doesn't level anything :/

The firebug weapon of the husk cannon is cool, and I like the idea of charge. I'm not sure about all the details on it, but it is certainly a good idea. I also like the MAc10 being removed to the gunslinger class where it acn be dual wielded and not have incendiary ammo at all.
Glad someone liked it xD (And also glad someone understood what i meant ^^)
And you understand that even if the Mac10 is wielded by the Firebug, it isn't incendiary, right? That's why the Firebug got the Sterling in the first place, so that the perk doesn't lose its incendiary weapon.

The Besrerker: Dual wield machettes is awesome, chainsaw fuel and added damage I don't like, power strikes are awesome for each weapon. I also think some more melee weapons woud be appreaciated, they don't even have to be that varied, but after watching Shaun Of The Dead, i see everything as a weapon. Even if it were something funny like a bondage whip or something like that. The idea of throwing the Fire Axe is also cool, but you'd have to be very careful when you chose to utilise that ability :p.
Glad you liked the ideas ^^
While i do like the idea of more melee weapons, it needs to be unique. The melee weapons are already a bit too similar, thus, adding a new melee weapon must serve a purpose.
About the Chainsaw, may i ask why you dislike the thought of more power at the cost of fuel?

Maybe make it so all these new things (apart from new weapons of course) are available to the individual perks. Example, only Gunslinger could Dual wield pistols and only beserker could dual wield machettes and throw fire axe? Just a suggestion.
I've heard that idea before, and while it is a neat thought, i think it is a bit too restrictive. Well, limiting the weapon throws only to Berserker is understandable however.

I agree completely with the fact that the Commando weapons need to be distinguished from one another a little better. The gun you suggested would fit the bill perfect so good work with that.
Thanks! Yeah, that's one of the more boring parts of the Commando imo, that all the weapons are so similar.

I believe I've covered everything, I hope that my opinions have helped to enlighten you a little in what were cool ideas and what were not.
Disclaimer: (Please remember everyone that this is what i think, it doesn't mean that those weapons are good or bad, it is simply what I believe)
Thank you so much for a filled out answer! I deeply appreciate it!
 
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The sticky grenades are actually from UT2004, which is good considering Killing Floor was originally a UT2004 mod, so it would be like paying homage to the game. :p I like COD 4 and 5, but after that the games were pretty juch still the same thing, very little changed and the COD 6 server system is the worst i've ever used. But I don't believe I ever say Sticky Grenade launchers in it... C4 is as close as I can think, maybe even the Symtex, but again, the C$ was placed, not thrwon/launched and the Symtex stuck to things but still exploded after about 4 seconds. The sticky grenades that I think would be good are from UT2004, you should check them out, they're really cool.
The chainsaw fuel I didn't like because having played Left 4 Dead (which i'm not very fond of), I found that running out of Chainsaw fuel was an absolute pain in the arse. It would also take up to much room when you do run out of fuel, it would be taking up tonnes of blocks and be absolutely useless. However, I don't think that I wouldn't use the chainsaw if it were updated in such a way, in fact it may even be interesting to give a run just to see how it turned out. The idea itself isn't inspiring though.
Fair enough with the medic gun I guess, I'm just worried about trying to keep each class very individual.
Haven't seen the rivet gun, will check it out.
Yes I did know that the Mac 10 would no longer have incendiary ammo in any case, even with the firebug perk active, which i don't mind considering you've added a new gun to replace it
The piep bomb idea I did understand what you were saying, but I like the Pipe Bombs the way that they are. They are expensive enough that unperked have trouble getting them if they want a tier 3 weapon of their own class but they're cheap enough when you are demolitions to get a sufficient amount of them. I don't believe that you can have too many unless you are playing the lower levels of diffulculty, but with the introduction of Hell On Earth, I believe that every Pipe Bomb will be required to survive! :p
Nice to see you giving credit where it is due in terms of all the ideas you are using. :D I respect that.
 
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The chainsaw fuel I didn't like because having played Left 4 Dead (which i'm not very fond of), I found that running out of Chainsaw fuel was an absolute pain in the arse. It would also take up to much room when you do run out of fuel, it would be taking up tonnes of blocks and be absolutely useless. However, I don't think that I wouldn't use the chainsaw if it were updated in such a way, in fact it may even be interesting to give a run just to see how it turned out. The idea itself isn't inspiring though.
Bolded part: Well, like most other weapons in this game that uses ammo you mean? ;) :p
But yeah, i think it at least would be worth a try. The Chainsaw is just still a tad "weak". Imo, giving it fuel and having the secondary attack b about as strong as the Fire Axe's secondary attack would make it a REAL tier 3 weapon, being good for crowds (Primary fire) and still good on the big one's like Scrakes and Fleshies (Secondary fire), but have the downsides of ammo, heavy weight and a slower runspeed. Sounds balanced to me at least *shrugs*

Yes I did know that the Mac 10 would no longer have incendiary ammo in any case, even with the firebug perk active, which i don't mind considering you've added a new gun to replace it
Good :)

The piep bomb idea I did understand what you were saying, but I like the Pipe Bombs the way that they are. They are expensive enough that unperked have trouble getting them if they want a tier 3 weapon of their own class but they're cheap enough when you are demolitions to get a sufficient amount of them. I don't believe that you can have too many unless you are playing the lower levels of diffulculty, but with the introduction of Hell On Earth, I believe that every Pipe Bomb will be required to survive! :p
Fair enough, we just have different opinions about it then :p However, the point of it is just to let the Demo perk have SOMETHING that isn't so insanely expensive, while not creating mine-fields again.

Nice to see you giving credit where it is due in terms of all the ideas you are using. :D I respect that.
^^

Yes. I don't quite like the idea of changing the entire game. You would be as well start making a co-op survival horror game of your own than to just change Killing Floor this much I think.
It's not THAT dramatic is it? I mean, sure, there are alot of things in there, but it's mostly minor stuff, it's not like it's a new game lol.


EXTRA:
Will edit into the initial post the H&K MK23 for the Gunslinger so it has a tier 1 (9mm pistol is tier 0, explained in this thread: http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=48929), and perhaps add / change the medic weapon into the M7A3.
H&K MK23 and M7A3 are the weapons from this thread: http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=49087

Will also edit in my ideas for Dual Pistols in the Gunslinger area.
 
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