So, is the consensus that demo is more or less sitting where beserker was before the balance patch? Not strictly useless, just underwhelming and lacking any real focus?
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What are your feelings on the beta update? (here are mine)
- Thread starter lemons
- Start date
Demo feels good as far as I've played it, the only few gripes I have with him are...
- Boomgun nearly useless unless you have a height advantage and can shoot a mob in the feet/heads from above.
- All weapons seem to lack that special "Oompfh!" when it comes to the big guys (Sc/FP/Hans).
- C4 could have an alternative mode that makes it function like ye olde pipebomb. Additionally as it was already discussed to death, it could stick to walls n **** (I remember the discussions regarding this).
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The thing is, Hans tanks a ****ton of explosions from demo even on normal. It feels like you're shooting peas at him.
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Not to mention the passive damage bonus from leveling isn't exactly noticeable. Gorefast still takes 2 chest shots from the SG 500 pump while I'm level 25 and have the Tenacity skill chosen.
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I don't think that's a weapon damage issue, but rather Hans resists explosive attacks. I read somewhere that this is because somebody 3 shot Hans with the RPG? I'm not sure but if that's the case, I think a better solution would've been to just increase his health. That or make explosive weapons have a high chance to stumble him if fired by the demolitionist. Maybe the demolitionist could have increasing stumble chance per level with explosive weapons added as a perk bonus since the demolitionist has only 3 in comparison to commando's 6 or the medic's 5.
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Yeah even with an explosive resistance, demo's toys would knock a tank about let alone a guy in heavy armour!
I'd say demo is useful for everything once he has his toys but it's the firebug microwave gun on top of the standard attacks which will be Hans' downfall for now.
To give my full opinion on the update I'm going to need to try it more, what a shame! How terrible! But what I will say is melee, though I've only dabbled, feels...weird. Like more sluggish, slow. That's with all the swing speed boosts and such too.
Again, I'll have to spend time in the game to see properly.
I'd say demo is useful for everything once he has his toys but it's the firebug microwave gun on top of the standard attacks which will be Hans' downfall for now.
To give my full opinion on the update I'm going to need to try it more, what a shame! How terrible! But what I will say is melee, though I've only dabbled, feels...weird. Like more sluggish, slow. That's with all the swing speed boosts and such too.
Again, I'll have to spend time in the game to see properly.
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Amazing update! Scrakes and fleshpounds are scary as hell, berserk rocks, sounds are better and demo, demo feels okay.
For a long time, I felt that boom pistol was weak as ****, until I changed my playstyle and started to use it at point blank range on groups that I herded together by circling them. One shot can take more than 5 zeds down quite easily. It's like sawed-off version of Boomstick. Almost useless, if zeds are further than 1 meter away - shines, when you are at licking distance.
C4 is weak. The clip is so minuscule that you kinda think that 1 or two or at least 3 C4s MUST kill a fp, but no. It just gets angry. And these were normal -difficulty fleshpounds. It's tier2 weapon, but you don't really have need for it until much later, when big zeds comes a-knocking. With such a small clip size, I'm not going to waste those on any medium zeds and so I keep pew-pewing with my boom pistol through several waves.
M79 felt ok, except a few times it looked like my shots went through a scrake even when I was, or at least I think I was, far enough to not make dud rounds.
Edit: I'm NOT going to play catacombs again before there's some sort of flashlight tweak. Playing demo in pitch dark wasn't very fun. Whipping out a pistol helped, but then I couldn't use any of my demo weapons. Well, C4 has that blinking led, yay... Shame, really, since that was a cool map.
For a long time, I felt that boom pistol was weak as ****, until I changed my playstyle and started to use it at point blank range on groups that I herded together by circling them. One shot can take more than 5 zeds down quite easily. It's like sawed-off version of Boomstick. Almost useless, if zeds are further than 1 meter away - shines, when you are at licking distance.
C4 is weak. The clip is so minuscule that you kinda think that 1 or two or at least 3 C4s MUST kill a fp, but no. It just gets angry. And these were normal -difficulty fleshpounds. It's tier2 weapon, but you don't really have need for it until much later, when big zeds comes a-knocking. With such a small clip size, I'm not going to waste those on any medium zeds and so I keep pew-pewing with my boom pistol through several waves.
M79 felt ok, except a few times it looked like my shots went through a scrake even when I was, or at least I think I was, far enough to not make dud rounds.
Edit: I'm NOT going to play catacombs again before there's some sort of flashlight tweak. Playing demo in pitch dark wasn't very fun. Whipping out a pistol helped, but then I couldn't use any of my demo weapons. Well, C4 has that blinking led, yay... Shame, really, since that was a cool map.
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Mine:
1- Awesome update for sound and stuff
2- Firebug is the Official Anti-SC, Microwave Altfire all the way baby, gotta love it
3- Firebug Shotty for me needs a more agressive sound
4- Extraction Point is beautiful
5- I wish in the near future Firebug gets the Mac or any SMG and the Husk Fireball Launcher
6- Fire textures and effects look awesome
Improvement in everything basically, the only thing i dont like is the Firebug Shotty sound
1- Awesome update for sound and stuff
2- Firebug is the Official Anti-SC, Microwave Altfire all the way baby, gotta love it
3- Firebug Shotty for me needs a more agressive sound
4- Extraction Point is beautiful
5- I wish in the near future Firebug gets the Mac or any SMG and the Husk Fireball Launcher
6- Fire textures and effects look awesome
Improvement in everything basically, the only thing i dont like is the Firebug Shotty sound
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Ah about fire textures and effects, I'd mostly agree as the caulk looks pretty good but the T3 flamethrower just...I don't know, it's changed noticeably (lighting or something, couldn't say) but the specific effects that made it look "ugh" are still there! Maybe I'm alone on this.
To try and clarify, it reminds me of the Deus Ex flamethrower. Of course it looks much better, but it does the same thing of pushing out rapid-fire static textures or something. I'd make a thread with pictures but I think nobody really cares about it except me, and that's fair enough I suppose.
To try and clarify, it reminds me of the Deus Ex flamethrower. Of course it looks much better, but it does the same thing of pushing out rapid-fire static textures or something. I'd make a thread with pictures but I think nobody really cares about it except me, and that's fair enough I suppose.
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Here is mine:
-Demolitionist feels much better than firebug.
-The firebug starting weapon is pointless and bad, they should have ported the uzi or the flare revolver or do something else entirely.
-A sad but prevalent opinion emerged where tier 4 weapons are believed to be superpowerful and versatile, can deal with anything and last you the whole wave. This is simply not true, the prohibitive weight that many of these weapons have forces you to carry only them and they simply are not enough on their own especially in later waves and before you say that we are meant to use other off perk weapons to compensate then I must tell you that we are not nor should be.
I don't like using off perk weapons with any perk and that was a pretty viable choice in KF1.
-Trench gun is simply useless and a waste of money please fix it.
-Demo weapons are pretty good overall but I miss the M32.
-Microwave gun is pretty cool and powerful but it's weight makes the weapon prohibitive. (look above)
-The berserker rework was a huge improvement, the class feels much better now and more intuitive and fills the role it was meant to, i'm still never going to use the eviscerator cause of the weight (see a pattern here?).
-Catacombs is too dark.
TL;DR Demo is a blast berserker is back in business, firebug is a mess and should be fixed asap, TWI believes that tier 4 weapons should be used without any other backup weapons.
-Demolitionist feels much better than firebug.
-The firebug starting weapon is pointless and bad, they should have ported the uzi or the flare revolver or do something else entirely.
-A sad but prevalent opinion emerged where tier 4 weapons are believed to be superpowerful and versatile, can deal with anything and last you the whole wave. This is simply not true, the prohibitive weight that many of these weapons have forces you to carry only them and they simply are not enough on their own especially in later waves and before you say that we are meant to use other off perk weapons to compensate then I must tell you that we are not nor should be.
I don't like using off perk weapons with any perk and that was a pretty viable choice in KF1.
-Trench gun is simply useless and a waste of money please fix it.
-Demo weapons are pretty good overall but I miss the M32.
-Microwave gun is pretty cool and powerful but it's weight makes the weapon prohibitive. (look above)
-The berserker rework was a huge improvement, the class feels much better now and more intuitive and fills the role it was meant to, i'm still never going to use the eviscerator cause of the weight (see a pattern here?).
-Catacombs is too dark.
TL;DR Demo is a blast
berserker is back in business, firebug is a mess and should be fixed asap, TWI believes that tier 4 weapons should be used without any other backup weapons.
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You take that back >:0
Nah I'm not sure what it is about the Trench gun. It's feels lovely and the effects are amazing. But it seems like sometimes it just doesn't hurt/ignite zeds.
Oh didn't see the thing about the Caulk. I dunno I love the Caulk, Caulk is my bro.
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Well guess ill post some of my stuff.
Overall:
-Perk re-balances are on point
-The after action report is a nice touch and gives a much needed way to easily switch maps
-Gore effects look really cool and make things like the demo weapons look even more impressive but it is kinda sad they require so much to run (i can run it with a 760 but it still causes a slight drop in performance).
-Still can't really comment on the ammo reduction, need to play more and also wait till people play a more balanced team instead of 3 firebugs, 2 demos and a zerker.
>Perks:
>Firebug
-Weapons
*Chalk n' burn works well as a tier 1. It does a decent amount of damage, lights things up and overall gets the job done.
*Trench gun feels really weak for some reason, can't put my finger on it. It may be the spread of it causing a few shots to miss but it seems like it should do a little more to a group of zeds than it does.
*Flamethrower functions very well and can engulf an entire group of zeds before they can even say "Too hot!". The way i see it is that the flamethrower is for wide area clearance and the microwave gun is for taking out larger targets out one at a time. The visual effects are a little jarring though such as jumping causing the flames on top of the flamethrower to displace.
*Microwave gun is one of the best guns i have seen in any game for a while. Holy sun god on a stick that thing just burns things to a crisp. Not only does it hose down a group of zeds fairl quickly but it does in Scrakes in no time flat! I was honestly not expecting it to do that much damage to them but hey, i can't complain.
*Molotov is pretty useful and combines what i liked about the fire grendes from the first game while removing some of the annoyance that came from missing and wasting it. It can really be used in a lot of ways and i like how it smashes and spreads fire on the first thing it impacts.
>Skills
-Mainly centered on area denial or more focused damage. One side of the tree wants to light everyone and everything on fire at once and the other seems more concerned with larger problems such as Scrakes, sirens and even husks. Pretty simple to me, do you wan to clear a lot of trash all at once or do you want to put the hurt on things one at a time?
Demo
>Weapons
*Boom pistol seems very finicky and difficult to use. It can do in a small group fairly quickly but does not have much range. Found it to be useful when running away or when stuck and needing to clear a small opening through zeds. Apart from that it falls under the upgrade as soon as you can or take as a really late backup tree.
*C4 feels hard to learn and master but when used properly it can really turn a bad situation around. Sticks to EVERYTHING, zeds, teammates, floors, walls, ceilings, props, even hans. The detonate 1 at a time thing can be looked at as a blessing or a curse. I feel like this can be one of the strongest demo weapons once a demo has the chance to level up a bit for the extra ammo and damage.
*M79 is a good old standby. Less ammo than the first game from what i can tell but at the same time has a much larger explosion radius. When compared to the rpg it is lighter, reloads faster and has a shorter "safe mode" so it's better for smaller areas but it does far less damage. Overall i can see it being useful on a map like Biolab or Catacombs where you just don't have the range to use the RPG.
*RPG is the show stopper, no doubting that. As stated above it has it's drawbacks but all is forgiven by the fact that it wrecks almost everything but the Scrake and Hans while still leaving enough room to carry C4. If you can get past the minimum safe distance nothing and i mean nothing can stand in your way. It can even be used as a fast escape by utilizing the back blast to clear off faster zeds that are tailing you.
*1/2 stick of TnT seems to have a much larger explosion radius than it's other grenade counterparts. I feel like when combined with the tier 1 contact ability of the demo it can really make for quick escapes, emergency FP clearance or just getting rid of a troublesome group bearing down on your team.
>Skills
-From the look if it the main skills either support an entire demo kamikaze build or a more calculated demo that is designated as a support. Take one set when you don't have a reliable trash clear so you can use a good off perk and take the second row when you have really good team support.
Zerker Rework
*Perry system is pretty well done. It makes a lot of sense that you can't just use a knife to block something that has drill first or a giant chainsaw. Unblock able attacks also mix things up a bit.
*Tree rework was the best thing to happen like ever. Gone are the useless perks that are reliant on being so hurt that you should just be dead and in are useful perks like more damage, vampire attacks, bonus damage after a block, and much more. It's pretty much an improvement in every way, shape and form.
*Eviscerater got a much needed buff. Being able to block and parry makes it so much more usable against the big stuff while the laser sight is just a nice little addon that makes using the weapon so much less of a pain. One thing that i noticed though is it seems the blades themselves travel slower or something, i remember them coming out at much faster speed before.
Zeds
*being able to explode the husk backpack is a nice touch, it was a suggestion that i really hoped would get added in and im glad it did
*My god the FP got some moves now. I was not expecting the sprint and the result was it tossing me all the way across the room into a bunch of zeds, that is a really cool thing and adds a new layer we haven't seen to much in killing floor before, team displacement by way of zed.
*Zed effects of hitting metal bits is really cool. I am also glad to see expanded hitboxes.
*As much as people will claim it's hand holding, **** it, i like the new additions to hans with the title card hint, the shield and all that. There were way to many people who had no idea what to do and caused a team wipe because not enough indication was given. Not sure about his accuracy loss yet, need to play more.
Overall it's a quality update as usual, not commenting to much on the maps yet as i only got to play a little bit of both so far (only 2 or 3 games each).
Overall:
-Perk re-balances are on point
-The after action report is a nice touch and gives a much needed way to easily switch maps
-Gore effects look really cool and make things like the demo weapons look even more impressive but it is kinda sad they require so much to run (i can run it with a 760 but it still causes a slight drop in performance).
-Still can't really comment on the ammo reduction, need to play more and also wait till people play a more balanced team instead of 3 firebugs, 2 demos and a zerker.
>Perks:
>Firebug
-Weapons
*Chalk n' burn works well as a tier 1. It does a decent amount of damage, lights things up and overall gets the job done.
*Trench gun feels really weak for some reason, can't put my finger on it. It may be the spread of it causing a few shots to miss but it seems like it should do a little more to a group of zeds than it does.
*Flamethrower functions very well and can engulf an entire group of zeds before they can even say "Too hot!". The way i see it is that the flamethrower is for wide area clearance and the microwave gun is for taking out larger targets out one at a time. The visual effects are a little jarring though such as jumping causing the flames on top of the flamethrower to displace.
*Microwave gun is one of the best guns i have seen in any game for a while. Holy sun god on a stick that thing just burns things to a crisp. Not only does it hose down a group of zeds fairl quickly but it does in Scrakes in no time flat! I was honestly not expecting it to do that much damage to them but hey, i can't complain.
*Molotov is pretty useful and combines what i liked about the fire grendes from the first game while removing some of the annoyance that came from missing and wasting it. It can really be used in a lot of ways and i like how it smashes and spreads fire on the first thing it impacts.
>Skills
-Mainly centered on area denial or more focused damage. One side of the tree wants to light everyone and everything on fire at once and the other seems more concerned with larger problems such as Scrakes, sirens and even husks. Pretty simple to me, do you wan to clear a lot of trash all at once or do you want to put the hurt on things one at a time?
Demo
>Weapons
*Boom pistol seems very finicky and difficult to use. It can do in a small group fairly quickly but does not have much range. Found it to be useful when running away or when stuck and needing to clear a small opening through zeds. Apart from that it falls under the upgrade as soon as you can or take as a really late backup tree.
*C4 feels hard to learn and master but when used properly it can really turn a bad situation around. Sticks to EVERYTHING, zeds, teammates, floors, walls, ceilings, props, even hans. The detonate 1 at a time thing can be looked at as a blessing or a curse. I feel like this can be one of the strongest demo weapons once a demo has the chance to level up a bit for the extra ammo and damage.
*M79 is a good old standby. Less ammo than the first game from what i can tell but at the same time has a much larger explosion radius. When compared to the rpg it is lighter, reloads faster and has a shorter "safe mode" so it's better for smaller areas but it does far less damage. Overall i can see it being useful on a map like Biolab or Catacombs where you just don't have the range to use the RPG.
*RPG is the show stopper, no doubting that. As stated above it has it's drawbacks but all is forgiven by the fact that it wrecks almost everything but the Scrake and Hans while still leaving enough room to carry C4. If you can get past the minimum safe distance nothing and i mean nothing can stand in your way. It can even be used as a fast escape by utilizing the back blast to clear off faster zeds that are tailing you.
*1/2 stick of TnT seems to have a much larger explosion radius than it's other grenade counterparts. I feel like when combined with the tier 1 contact ability of the demo it can really make for quick escapes, emergency FP clearance or just getting rid of a troublesome group bearing down on your team.
>Skills
-From the look if it the main skills either support an entire demo kamikaze build or a more calculated demo that is designated as a support. Take one set when you don't have a reliable trash clear so you can use a good off perk and take the second row when you have really good team support.
Zerker Rework
*Perry system is pretty well done. It makes a lot of sense that you can't just use a knife to block something that has drill first or a giant chainsaw. Unblock able attacks also mix things up a bit.
*Tree rework was the best thing to happen like ever. Gone are the useless perks that are reliant on being so hurt that you should just be dead and in are useful perks like more damage, vampire attacks, bonus damage after a block, and much more. It's pretty much an improvement in every way, shape and form.
*Eviscerater got a much needed buff. Being able to block and parry makes it so much more usable against the big stuff while the laser sight is just a nice little addon that makes using the weapon so much less of a pain. One thing that i noticed though is it seems the blades themselves travel slower or something, i remember them coming out at much faster speed before.
Zeds
*being able to explode the husk backpack is a nice touch, it was a suggestion that i really hoped would get added in and im glad it did
*My god the FP got some moves now. I was not expecting the sprint and the result was it tossing me all the way across the room into a bunch of zeds, that is a really cool thing and adds a new layer we haven't seen to much in killing floor before, team displacement by way of zed.
*Zed effects of hitting metal bits is really cool. I am also glad to see expanded hitboxes.
*As much as people will claim it's hand holding, **** it, i like the new additions to hans with the title card hint, the shield and all that. There were way to many people who had no idea what to do and caused a team wipe because not enough indication was given. Not sure about his accuracy loss yet, need to play more.
Overall it's a quality update as usual, not commenting to much on the maps yet as i only got to play a little bit of both so far (only 2 or 3 games each).
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I forgot to add this in my post. The dual pistol aiming is very lame, I do not like it at all. I see no reason why it should not be like it was in the last game.
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Well don't misunderstand me the trench gun looks and feels great, it just is not effective to the point that I can't justify buying it and using over other weapons.
Now the caulk is simply a smaller flamethrower, yes it is pretty useful but it seems to go against the game's mantra of unique weapons each with it's own niche so it left me scratching my head. All in all though the caulk and the flamethrower is the best combination of weapons a firebug can carry and that is sad.
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Wait
dos thou darest to say that the FT is better than the Microwave?!
whoooweee
I gotta lay down :0
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1. It does? Did not know that, need to test it out, if so, fancy trap placement inc...
2. Feels a bit too costly, I just go with the "why buy it if i can wait a round for 400D and buy the RPG" mentality.
3. I wish we could get this kind of Flash cards for all the Zeds. Like in KF1. Would really help spread awarness of their threat and weakness'
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Yea, i made mistakes when i accidentally stuck it to a crawler and it jumped at me, resulting in a lot of dead everything but also losing a pretty big chunk of hp. Good thing for explosive resistance!
I kinda feel like the M79 has it's place as a side weapon to be honest, mainly in the case of really small map where you often can't get the distance you need to effectively use the RPG due to the reload time and minimum safe distance. Most of the time i really would just go with the RPG but some maps i feel like it wouldn't do so well because of the cramped nature.
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Regarding the dual pistol aiming, it MAY seems weird I admit it, but I think it's a really nice idea.
In KF1, a lot of people was complaining that ironsight was useless with dual pistol because you did not have a gun pointing to the "center" of the screen making it hard to aim.
In KF2, while it may seems lame, by having only one gun in front of you, you can still use ironsight the same way you would with a single gun.
Considering we are going to have a perk focusing on headshot with dual pistol, being able to keep our accuracy is a great thing
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