tank penetration and shattering

[Frostedfire]

I have been mucking around with the ATRs trying to work out weak spots on the tanks (engine grills on the rear deck of the t-34 and the t-70 are great targets ) and have noticed that sometimes the round is playing the shatter effect but still doing damage, an example being shooting at the front tyres on the half-track spawning the shatter particles (and more importantly, going *ping*) but still doing damage to the wheels/tracks. Is this an intended feature? It feels a little counter-intuitive if there's no visible/audible difference between shatter-no-pen and shatter-penetrations unless it kills a crewman

 

[Jank]

That would be spalling. No penetration necessary for major damage.


Like the effect of the HESH round in this diagram:

 

[Panzer Jager '43]

If it shatters a small amount of damage is still dealt. If it deflects no damage is dealt. If it penetrates it deals damage to the component it hit (to cause criticals if they're there) and to the vehicles' overall health - but (I think) damage is also reduced based on velocity post-penetration.

 

[Mr Headshot95]

I've been shooting at tanks recently with ATR's, but I don't see any explosion or hear any CRUNCH's anymore. Yet they still blow-up or take damage.

Was this a change from the most recent patch? I've also noticed that tanks take damage easier from non-vital points, such as simply shooting turret faces will result in gunner kills now. At least on the Panzer IV, haven't tried on the T-34.

 

[mrsirr]

I've been shooting at tanks recently with ATR's, but I don't see any explosion or hear any CRUNCH's anymore. Yet they still blow-up or take damage.

Was this a change from the most recent patch? I've also noticed that tanks take damage easier from non-vital points, such as simply shooting turret faces will result in gunner kills now. At least on the Panzer IV, haven't tried on the T-34.

How many shots do you fire at them before they explode? I've heard recently of people killing tanks with sheer mass fire even when their rounds are shattering.
I dunno about the 2nd part there.

 

[Frostedfire]

If it shatters a small amount of damage is still dealt. If it deflects no damage is dealt. If it penetrates it deals damage to the component it hit (to cause criticals if they're there) and to the vehicles' overall health - but (I think) damage is also reduced based on velocity post-penetration.

Thanks, I was always of the opinion that the spalling was a small rng chance, but with my mucking around it seems much more reliable now. It seems the pz/t-34's can't pull off a villers-bocage and laugh off enemy fire forever now

I've been shooting at tanks recently with ATR's, but I don't see any explosion or hear any CRUNCH's anymore. Yet they still blow-up or take damage.

Was this a change from the most recent patch? I've also noticed that tanks take damage easier from non-vital points, such as simply shooting turret faces will result in gunner kills now. At least on the Panzer IV, haven't tried on the T-34.

In the last patch they changed it to display spark effects when there was a shatter, and according to PJ43 that's completely replaced the endless *crunch* *crunch* *crunch* *crunch* *crunch* effect from before when you were blazing away at their tracks. Also bounced shells (that didn't shatter) keep their tracer light coming out the back while they fly through the air, just like in ro1 :IS2:

 

[Mr Headshot95]

How many shots do you fire at them before they explode? I've heard recently of people killing tanks with sheer mass fire even when their rounds are shattering.

Sometimes it's just 2-3 mags spamming at the turret. I've gotten kills aiming at any area of the glacis or sideplates too. These are the original medium tanks.

More often than not I'll kill someone inside instead of actually blowing it up, but both can happen.

It just seems very different from the old "I'm useless unless I'm 100m away and shooting at the treads" feeling. Like the ATR can actually damage the tanks frontally now.

In the last patch they changed it to display spark effects when there was a shatter, and according to PJ43 that's completely replaced the endless *crunch* *crunch* *crunch* *crunch* *crunch* effect from before when you were blazing away at their tracks. Also bounced shells (that didn't shatter) keep their tracer light coming out the back while they fly through the air, just like in ro1 :IS2:

Hm, okay. I did notice that some ATR hits looked different even if they made the same PING noise.

And I did notice the tracer change, a nice touch.

 

[Tiger2]

It is very important for there to be a damage modifier for when the heavy ammo goes down to zero. In that case the ammo hitbox will not produce an effect if hit by ATR. Incoming tank rounds still cause damage (due to spall) but again no detonation.

 

[mrsirr]

I thought alot of the AP rounds had charges in them though. Not all of them ever of course, but alot of them.

 

[Jank]

That would be HEAT or HEAP rounds... which I don't think we have in RO2.

 

[mrsirr]

That would be HEAT or HEAP rounds... which I don't think we have in RO2.

I don't mean the ones that penetrate with an explosive charge. I mean ones that are just APCBC rounds but they have a charge in them. I know the 45 on the T70 doesn't have them but I'm pretty sure most of the guns at the time did. Tis called APHE, dunno if that's the same thing as HEAP.

 

[Jank]

It's not the same, as you suspected. HEAP uses the shaped charge to penetrate, where APHE penetrates with the AP cone then explodes it's HE payload.

 

[mrsirr]

Ah yes. Well anyhoo I was under the impression that APHE was fairly common for most guns then.

 

[[TW]Wilsonam]

"HEAP" doesn't exist... you can have:

AP - Armor Piercing ("shot"). Also used as a generic term, unfortunately.
APHE - AP with a High Explosive "bursting charge". Penetrates through standard AP mechanics; bursting charge may explode behind the armor, if the projectile is still intact.
APBC - AP with a ballistic cap. Unhelpfully, may also mean APHE with BC. Intended to improve the exterior ballistics of the projectile.
APC - AP, Capped. A softer steel cap on the end of an AP (or APHE) projectile, to help with handling sloped armor plate.
APCBC - Armor Piercing, Capped, Ballistic Capped. Combine APC and APBC.
APCR - AP, Composite Rigid - usually tungsten-cored projectiles.
APDS - AP, Discarding Sabot - sub-caliber AP munition, with a sabot (jacket) that allows the gun to send a smaller, denser projectile down range at high velocity
APFSDS - AP, Fin-Stabilised, Discarding Sabot - the advent of long-rod penetrators.

HEAT - High Explosive, Anti-Tank - originally HE rounds, become shaped charge weapons.
HESH - HE, Squash-Head - another variant on HEAT.

And, having mentioned "exterior ballistics", consider the following terms:

Interior Ballistics - the performance of the round and projectile in the gun tube, from the moment of firing, until the projectile exits the barrel. NOT modeled in RO2.

Exterior Ballistics - the performance of the projectile from the moment it leaves the barrel until it impacts something. Modeled in RO2.

Terminal Ballistics - what happens from the moment the projectile impacts something (i.e. armor plate) until it is destroyed or penetrates the armor. Modeled in RO2.

Behind-Armor Performance - what happens if a round penetrates armor plate in any form. Modeled in RO2.

 

[Spetz]

And, having mentioned "exterior ballistics", consider the following terms:

Interior Ballistics - the performance of the round and projectile in the gun tube, from the moment of firing, until the projectile exits the barrel. NOT modeled in RO2.

Exterior Ballistics - the performance of the projectile from the moment it leaves the barrel until it impacts something. Modeled in RO2.

Terminal Ballistics - what happens from the moment the projectile impacts something (i.e. armor plate) until it is destroyed or penetrates the armor. Modeled in RO2.

Behind-Armor Performance - what happens if a round penetrates armor plate in any form. Modeled in RO2.

Just so you know: I think RO2 has the most awesome tanks.

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

Just so you know: I think RO2 has the most awesome tanks.

If you condone arcadey balancing and an artificial nerfing of the 7.5cm KwK40, sure.

 

[mrsirr]

If you condone arcadey balancing and an artificial nerfing of the 7.5cm KwK40, sure.

No game does it better. So by definition it does have the most awesome tanks.

 

[Jpz38 Hetzer]

No game does it better. So by definition it does have the most awesome tanks.

Stop stealing my thoughts

 

[Moskeeto]

No game does it better. So by definition it does have the most awesome tanks.

This.

 

[mrsirr]

Stop stealing my thoughts

I'm sorry D:
I can always hear everyone's thoughts and it gets difficult to tell whose are whose

:0