• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/
  • Weve updated the Tripwire Privacy Notice under our Policies to be clearer about our use of customer information to come in line with the EU General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) rules that come into force today (25th May 2018). The following are highlights of our changes:


    We've incorporated the relevant concepts from the GDPR including joining the EU and Swiss Privacy Shield framework. We've added explanations for why and how Tripwire processes customer data and the types of data that we process, as well as information about your data protection rights.



    For more information about our privacy practices, please review the new Privacy Policy found here: https://tripwireinteractive.com/#/privacy-notice

Sprint Centering in HoS

KingLol

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 12, 2009
176
134
0
Any chance of clarification on why the previous thread was removed?

Anyway:
It appears as though this won't be a problem in HoS because the gun doesn't look like it recenters after you finish sprinting. The thing is, does it get recentered to some area of the screen approximately near the centre? If not, I have a horrible image in my head of running around with my gun facing all the way left while trying to point it at something to my right and that'd feel pretty clumsy.
 

Zetsumei

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
12,459
1,433
0
31
Falmouth UK
I doubt that there would be any troubles with not re-entering if anything in my opinion that is how it should be.

The only thing I'm personally afraid off is that free aim in iron sights will feel like mouse acceleration.
 

Schreq

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 10, 2011
257
191
0
.de
I hate the idea of free-aim in ironsights. Not only gameplay wise, but also for the sake of realism. It's ok for the pistols but not for weapons where you rest your cheek on the buttstock.

@topic: I think you didn't really understand what KingLol is talking about, blacklabel. Let's say you go around 2 left corners, your weapon will point all the way to the left. Without having a way to at least get the weapon a bit more middleish, you will run around like a total retard --> aim with the edge of the screen to hipshoot someone.
 
Last edited:

Zetsumei

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
12,459
1,433
0
31
Falmouth UK
well while shouldering your weapon you can still look and rotate your eyeballs so in that sense I don't think it has to be unrealistic. But its rather that I would rather have a separate button to look around. So that in iron sight the gun stays coupled directly to my mouse movement.

I know in real life accurately how much I move my arm or in a game how much I move my mouse. But if the movement of the gun is not directly attached to the movement of my mouse (aka double the mouse movement, double the rotation on screen). then things will probably feel unintuitive for me. In a similar way that mouse acceleration does.
 

Forssen

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 23, 2010
851
315
0
Sweden
I hate the idea of free-aim in ironsights. Not only gameplay wise, but also for the sake of realism. It's ok for the pistols but not for weapons where you rest your cheek on the buttstock.
I don't know how it's represented in-game but it could simply represent you aiming without moving your feet.
 

Schreq

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 10, 2011
257
191
0
.de
well while shouldering your weapon you can still look and rotate your eyeballs so in that sense I don't think it has to be unrealistic. But its rather that I would rather have a separate button to look around. So that in iron sight the gun stays coupled directly to my mouse movement.

I know in real life accurately how much I move my arm or in a game how much I move my mouse. But if the movement of the gun is not directly attached to the movement of my mouse (aka double the mouse movement, double the rotation on screen). then things will probably feel unintuitive for me. In a similar way that mouse acceleration does.
If you rest your cheek on a weapon and focus the sights, you will hardly "move" your eyes around. If you want to aim around, you would turn by your hip, not moving your arms and following with your eyes.
That's how you can do it with a pistol though.

I don't know how it's represented in-game but it could simply represent you aiming without moving your feet.
You do that by turning the hip while the ironsights are still "attached" to your view. At least that feels more natural to me :)
 

DiedTrying

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 17, 2011
1,433
843
0
USA Prime Credit
armed assault did this well. There is a sort of dead space when you move your mouse while in iron sights. You move the mouse a bit, and it moves the gun, not you. Helps to not give away your position but if you make the setting too high, it can be clunky and hard to actually rotate your entire body.
 

Schreq

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 10, 2011
257
191
0
.de
armed assault did this well. There is a sort of dead space when you move your mouse while in iron sights. You move the mouse a bit, and it moves the gun, not you. Helps to not give away your position but if you make the setting too high, it can be clunky and hard to actually rotate your entire body.
What arma did well was the ability to set the freeaim area. Slider all the way to the left to have no freeaim at all while aiming :p
 

Zetsumei

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
12,459
1,433
0
31
Falmouth UK
If you rest your cheek on a weapon and focus the sights, you will hardly "move" your eyes around. If you want to aim around, you would turn by your hip, not moving your arms and following with your eyes.
That's how you can do it with a pistol though.
What I mean is you can stop looking through the sights normally and quickly look to your right. Your eyes move super quick and actually can hardly focus on anything longer than a second or two. Your actual eyeballs are constantly moving around at all times nearly.

For instance while reading this you can actually only see about 3 words sharp at any time but your eyes are moving quickly if you want to see things sharp. Your brain is simply playing tricks on you :p.

Of course when looking through the iron sights to shoot it should be in the centre of your focus. But even then the question remains should the centre of the screen be the centre of focus. Because for instance I see it more as that the centre of my own vision is the centre of focus (which is why I am against blurring the edges of your screen when in zoom mode).

DiedTrying, if the first person freeaim is actually user definable in ROHOS it would be awesome, I too think TWI did it to not make people always instantly move around in a weird way. However in ArmA even when mouse acceleration is disabled it still feels its there. As first you move your gun and then you move your screen in a way.

Making it more difficult than in my opinion realistic to control your body. I've got my proprioceptive feedback of my own arm so I know the position of my mouse. If that is directly coupled to the arm position pretty much of my character, then I can use that feedback for gaming better.

Your eyes are slow and work with a 200ms delay, while your proprioceptive feedback got a much smaller delay. If you need to rely on your vision to hit someone then when moving the mouse you will get a bigger overshoot as you notice that you're on the target 200ms after being there. While if you know you want to turn say 110 degrees, and you could use your own proprioceptive feedback then you would get a much smaller overshoot.

After some quick googling I found a nice powerpoint presentation here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/13329475/Sensory-Contributions-to-Motor-Control

I think its critical to let a player have as much feedback based on his real systems as possible. As this can help in increasing the immersion.
 
Last edited:

Knighted

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 1, 2010
183
538
0
The game is basing a lot of the aiming difficulty off of a real world breathing model. So essentially one of the downsides of sprinting is that your breathing is effected pretty heavily. The harder you breath, the harder your weapon will sway. Hope this helps. I don't believe you can shoot while sprinting, this would be utterly pointless. At full speed the possibility of you hitting anything would be 0, not to mention it would slow you down considerably.
 
Last edited:

KingLol

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 12, 2009
176
134
0
Not quite the point of the thread: it's not about stamina-induced sway so much as being stuck with the gun in an awkward position with no way to correct it and having to suffer the ridiculous consequences as a result (i.e. moving diagonally because you have to aim with the edge of the screen as suggested above). This is why some kind of aim centering should be employed (as I suggested originally maybe it should be to some approximate area near the centre rather than dead centre of the screen to prevent it being exploitable).

@BlackLabel: You know what's really funny: it's that a lot of people on this forum will completely skip over this topic and instead start threads about the realism destroying and immersion breaking issue of the G41 ammo pack containing the incorrect number of buckles for it to be Winter 1942 equipment. We'll all be running around and dancing sideways like clumsy idiots wondering how to control our hands but at least we've got the right number of buttons on our uniforms.:cool:
:IS2:
 

BlackLabel

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 9, 2007
3,139
1,063
0
Churmany
You guys are boring, but it was fun provoking a "blablabla you dont know what hes saying" response....buisness as useuall....:rolleyes: OFC it whould be a total PITA to have the gun not near / or close to the center...;)

I don't believe you can shoot while sprinting, this would be utterly pointless.
You cant in RO:OST...

You know what's really funny: ...
I think its part of the very bunch of people that like ro as much as you and me, their focus might just be totaly diffrent.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: CopperHead

kllr101

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 20, 2011
190
64
0
Suffolk, United Kingdom
So, The problem is that if you was to say, Go around 2 left corners as said in an example above. Your gun would end up far to the left.

What if its just, wherever your gun is centered before you start sprinting is where it will be centered post sprinting. Then alot of the issues would be gone if i'm not mistaken.

That, or you could just use your mouse to recenter it manually.. or is that too complex for the realism junkies :p
 

KingLol

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 12, 2009
176
134
0
So, The problem is that if you was to say, Go around 2 left corners as said in an example above. Your gun would end up far to the left.

What if its just, wherever your gun is centered before you start sprinting is where it will be centered post sprinting. Then alot of the issues would be gone if i'm not mistaken.

That, or you could just use your mouse to recenter it manually.. or is that too complex for the realism junkies :p
I think it looks a bit like this is what's been done from the RO2 videos so far. It's when not sprinting that the problem would occur: you go round several left corners and the gun is at the far left of the screen. Without re-centering the gun (by ironsights or more commonly by tapping sprint because it doesn't slow you down) you then have to aim very awkwardly and will be essentially deprived of your normal visibility (since you'd normally expect the gun to be approximately in the middle so you can see equally well to the left and right). You can use the mouse to recenter manually but that would involve turning left again once the gun is as far left as possible and turning back right so you end up facing the intended direction with your gun roughly in the middle; a very clunky solution to a problem which shouldn't exist.


I think its part of the very bunch of people that like ro as much as you and me, their focus might just be totaly diffrent.
The irony is that the focus is so much on small details that something glaringly obvious such as this escapes them - it's hardly realistic having to run diagonally because you're unable to move your gun to a more central position I'm sure you'll agree.
 

Zetsumei

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
12,459
1,433
0
31
Falmouth UK
Not quite the point of the thread: it's not about stamina-induced sway so much as being stuck with the gun in an awkward position with no way to correct it and having to suffer the ridiculous consequences as a result (i.e. moving diagonally because you have to aim with the edge of the screen as suggested above). This is why some kind of aim centering should be employed (as I suggested originally maybe it should be to some approximate area near the centre rather than dead centre of the screen to prevent it being exploitable).
:IS2:
There is a limit to the free aim area the gun can move in. I've never had an issue with hip shooting myself due to the free aim, in case the gun needs to become centered then then just turn a little to the other side. Its how it was supposed to be in Roost to begin with. And loads of people do not have issues while they do not use the centering exploits either.
 
Last edited:

Pectus

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 23, 2010
284
310
0
Finland
There is a limit to the free aim area the gun can move in. I've never had an issue with hip shooting myself due to the free aim, in case the gun needs to become centered then then just turn a little to the other side. Its how it was supposed to be in Roost to begin with. And loads of people do not have issues while they do not use the centering exploits either.

Some call it an exploit, I call it a feature :inserttheremovedtrollfacesmiley:
 
Last edited:

Rahabib

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 14, 2010
43
46
0
Some call it an exploit, I call it a feature :inserttheremovedtrollfacesmiley:
lol. thats what I was thinking too. If theres no good way of fixing it, then the only other option is simply to embrace it.

Besides, I am sure there will be mods (or should for the fast paced crowd) to be able to just fix the weapon at center so there isn't the learning curve where users unaware of the exploit aren't... exploited.