Should the next RO game include a progression system?

[Proud_God]

Simple question for you all (including TWI staff ): if TWI should ever make a next RO game, or an other game in the same genre, do you think they should include a progression system that is more than only cosmetic (meaning including weapon unlocks and stats improvements)?

 

[Proud_God]

For me personally it's a strong no, as I feel that:

• Besides its negative points, see below, a progression system is simply not needed/does not belong in a tactical fps game like RO, or any fps game that is not RPG-like for that matter. Additionally, I'd imagine it takes considerable dev time to create, and also requires stat server maintenance. Time that could be spent on other, awesome things.
• It's more interesting when players are distinguished by their own skill as players, instead of (also) by artificially awarded bonuses.
• A progression system gives further, unneeded benefit to veterans
• It's more interesting when every player is driven by the sole desire to see his team win, instead of by (also) the urge to harvest personal experience points (see also: letting your class/weapon selection be driven by XP gathering needs, players farming on bots instead of joining real people servers, etc...)
• Lack of progression system creates an equal environment, which is not only good for public play, but a requirement for the competitive/clan scene.
• Progression system goes hand in hand with the white-listing system, a severe obstacle for mods/mutators/custom settings to get the play time they deserve.
• Relying on XP requirements to make weapons rare on the battlefield only works in the beginning. As time goes on, more and more people achieve high levels.
• You like to get acquainted with how a gun behaves over time? A progression system messes with that by constantly changing the behaviour of your gun (mainly: recoil)
• A progression system is thematically wonky and diminishes the importance/fear of death, as XP hapilly keeps accumulating across many, many deaths.

 

[Moskeeto]

If they were to make another RO, I would want them to completely get rid of weapon unlocks and stat boosts. I would want them to keep the honor level system, along with the characters looking grittier as they level up.

As for weapons attachments, only standard realistic attachments should be available, and all from the start. You should be able to choose each individual attachment you want. I would also like them to keep the system where weapons look cleaner the more you use them.

 

[Vapid]

I probably wouldn't buy RO3 anyway, but to answer your question, no.

 

[Kowalczyk]

All of PG's points are valid for a game of this kind.

I think that the key to this discussion is variety, so I think cosmetic unlocks would be fine, but more importantly: more maps, more vehicles, more weapons to choose from, various character models - in my opinion these should be the dev's focus, and in that specific order for me.

I myself have spent time trying to get that next unlock or level up a specific class, not really focussing on how my team was doing, even sometimes ignoring that we lacked a commander or SL (I levelled those up really quick because they were often left empty early on - maybe players were also doing the same as me lol) so I do think it takes attention away from the teamwork to some degree.

The other thing is that some classes have bonuses but some don't (tankers!), and some weapons have unlocks and some don't (Russian MG!), which I think leads to some players not choosing the class or weapon at all.

Also, the systems are in the game, and I would be at a disadvantage if I did NOT level up, because the enemy will have less recoil, run faster etc...

However, it's unfortunate that today's games of this kind have 'spoilt' players to expect the unlocks and progression, and so it would be difficult to not include next time.

 

[MeFirst]

Only for cosmetic upgrades at best.

 

[Andreson]

I don't want a RO 3 until Ro 2 gets better to be honest.

 

[Zetsumei]

I personally think that progression systems can be good to semi limit the people's choices initially. So you can use such a system to get people to learn the game in what is most likely the least frustrating way.

However I prefer it that you can pretty quickly max things out, and at that point start with the real game.

I'm personally not a big fan of RPG like progression systems that simply make you better over time. I'd rather have inverse progression initially, like new players could play with a crosshair for the first 5 hours and then it dissapears.

But the base game in my opinion should be related on a single thing and that is the individual players skill, where the game mechanics allow for a user to become much better at the game, through a combination reflexes, experience, and tactics.

 

[Giuliano]

I like the honor level and the way your avatar gets more battle worn as you level up, but that really is about it.

 

[utek]

i would want them to keep the honor level system, along with the characters looking grittier as they level up.

+1

 

[JosephBaier]

Nein.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

I would say NO.

Besides not liking it personally, I think it leads to the wrong player mentality, wastes considerable development time that could be used to add more features (cough cough coding vehicles), and then you have to contend with bugs that the whole system might introduce that need to be fixed.

Also, I have to wonder, would you have a better and more flexible class/weapon selection that is similar to ROOST's? Personally I thought that games was way superior in what you could do with it. ROHOS's seems to be locked and limited because of the progression system in place.

 

[gattocake]

No thanks. Artificial stat boosts and rank dependant unlocks / weapons must go.

 

[Randy Newman]

I personally dislike the progression system and most of the points Proud God made are valid.

However, I disagree with the notion that progression discourages good play. I would say it encourages it. Think of the way XP is awarded in the game:

- Kill = 1 point
- Resupplying MG= 5 points
- Killing in Objective= Boatload of points

The way to gain XP in RO is to play it correctly.

The benefits from progression need to be toned down or be completely cosmetic. That's something I can get behind.

Of course, the results from this poll are not surprising. The community here, I believe, is increasingly divorced from the actual playerbase The actual playerbase loves this whole progression idea and in-game, I see tons of people talking about "oh yeah- finally got that MG scope!"

The debate we need to be having is whether progression is needed in today's environment. I think progression is a necessary evil- it retains players. This is why I am willing to tolerate it.

It goes without saying that my opinion is based on my experience in game and is thus purely anecdotal. I just can't help shake the feeling that we've opened pandora's box with the progression system and we cannot back out from it.

Long story short- the progression system might cause a lot of people on this forum to say "I will not buy RO3!" A not unreasonable response from TWI would be "ok...you guys are a loud minority anyway, go to hell."

 

[Proud_God]

The actual playerbase loves this whole progression idea and in-game, I see tons of people talking about "oh yeah- finally got that MG scope!"

I think it's hard to deduce from players being happy that they unlocked something that they actually liked the progression system, rather than just liking the unlocked item. Your above quote could also mean: 'I finally unlocked something cool that should have been in the game from the start, the work is over'... (not using your particular MG scope example, that sounds out of place )

 

[Kowalczyk]

Yes, I unlocked the belt-fed level 50 Mg34 today, and I had a smile on my face, because I have 250 rounds in it. "All the better to shoot you with," said the Wolf.

 

[Cwivey]

yes, i unlocked the belt-fed level 50 mg34 today, and i had a smile on my face, because i have 250 rounds in it. "all the better to shoot you with," said the wolf.

150

 

[JosephBaier]

not 175? or was it 125?

 

[Kowalczyk]

Haha I havent counted them!

 

[Rattler]

I want all "upgrades" unlocked from the beginning for everybody. Also I hope RO3 goes to different theater. Modern or Korea or Vietnam or something like that. WW2 is done to death.