Shotgun and Support suggestion

[Aze]

@Yoyo, yes, i will try stop the "bickering" with an as polite last response to Sammers and asking to call a truce between our heated responses and, if we are to discuss more with eachother, then just talk about the suggestion itself, not about something else

Hey, I think the shotgun is fairly powerful offperk. It's the weapon I have as Medic. I THINK. Just like you think that if lightweight weapons were brought in, the Support perk has the potential to carry an overpowered amount of weapons. Personal thoughts are not facts.

Very true. However, the thing you posted first, about being able to carry all 3 shotguns at once, is a false fact. A number-error if you will. Plus it was a misread / lazy reading (dunno) from you, who thought i didn't do anything else than reduce the weights, hence also another false fact about my suggestion.
Your other opinions however (thinking the shotguns don't really need a weight decrease, and that they are powerful offperk), are completely ok opinions, which i have nothing against hearing.

No, it's not an argument. It is a fact about me as a person and I couldn't care what your reply on the subject is. Your personal relationship with me should not be affecting your suggestions for KF.

So, if you don't care about my responses, then why are you posting here? I mean, aren't you even reading what i have written before you post?
And it's not affecting my suggestions one bit. I still stand by my suggestions.

There are no arguments, only what I think. And I think the shotgun does a decent amount of damage for it's power and cost. Enough to justify it not needing a weight decrease. Simple as that.

That's ok. (Just changed your word INcrease to DEcrease there, so people reading will understand what you meant ^^)

Fully accepted, so long as you accept that what I said wasn't meant as an insult.

Your first post, yes, that was probably not in any way an insult, i completely accept that. However, it still had false facts in it, there is no denying that.
Your other posts though, they were not exactly polite ones

So you'd find it most complimentary if I said you might be a nice guy, whose opinion I might consider listening to?

I guess
After all i don't want to fight with you at all, i just want you to listen more carefully to what i suggest

Yes, I did

That's alright.
May i suggest though, for future posting, that you read people's entire posts/suggestions more carefully first before responding with yours?

I can't, just like you can't prove that it IS overpowered. I just think, from using it in Killing Floor offperk for a number of years, that it does an appropriate amount of damage for the weight and price. Ergo, neither of us are basing any of these ideas on facts.

I have nothing to add to that
We just have differing opinions about this.

Now, to end this heated "battle" between you and me, i would like to ask you (and other readers) some more direct question:

The weapon combos that opens up with this suggestion, which i showed in a previous post in this thread, is there any of those new combos there that you think looks a bit too strong? (More aimed at Suicidal / HoE difficulties mind you)

 

[Sammers]

So, if you don't care about my responses, then why are you posting here? I mean, aren't you even reading what i have written before you post?
And it's not affecting my suggestions one bit. I still stand by my suggestions.

I'm starting to think I'm the only person who thinks this game should quit while it's ahead now. It's near a point of balance perfection, I think. Only things I can think to add are a Medic gun at a stretch, or unoffensive tools for battle.

That's ok. (Just changed your word INcrease to DEcrease there, so people reading will understand what you meant ^^)

Yeah, I meant to say Decrease.

Your other posts though, they were not exactly polite ones

I didn't find yours too polite myself, to be honest.

I have nothing to add to that
We just have differing opinions about this.

Sums it all up perfectly.

The weapon combos that opens up with this suggestion, which i showed in a previous post in this thread, is there any of those new combos there that you think looks a bit too strong? (More aimed at Suicidal / HoE difficulties mind you)

Shotgun is a brilliant weapon for keeping a Medic out of harms way in emergencies. I find that if you have a really good team and you are Demo, there's no real need for the M32 other than spam, which obscured views, so I tend to take a Shotgun/M79/Machete/Pipes combo and it works a treat. Occasionally, it's good alongside a Scar as commando because of the reload bonus. Used to be likewise with Sharpshooter until the patch. If you mained the LAR, Handcannons or M14, the shotgun was a piece of genius for point-blank headshots.

People can think that the more weapons they can carry, the better they'll be. Not often the case.

 

[Aze]

I'm starting to think I'm the only person who thinks this game should quit while it's ahead now. It's near a point of balance perfection, I think. Only things I can think to add are a Medic gun at a stretch, or unoffensive tools for battle.

Do you really not want more stuff in the future? I mean, that would make the game die out later. And we don't want that to happen do we?

I didn't find yours too polite myself, to be honest.

Well, do you honestly not agreed that my "hostility" was a little bit more justified? (My later responses, not my first response to you. The first one was a bit too aggressive indeed.)

Shotgun is a brilliant weapon for keeping a Medic out of harms way in emergencies. I find that if you have a really good team and you are Demo, there's no real need for the M32 other than spam, which obscured views, so I tend to take a Shotgun/M79/Machete/Pipes combo and it works a treat. Occasionally, it's good alongside a Scar as commando because of the reload bonus. Used to be likewise with Sharpshooter until the patch. If you mained the LAR, Handcannons or M14, the shotgun was a piece of genius for point-blank headshots.

People can think that the more weapons they can carry, the better they'll be. Not often the case.

I see what you mean, you think the shotguns are quite handy offperk. But i must ask, do you really think there would be much harm in reducing the weight of the shotguns by 1 (2 for Hunting though)? As you say, people might think they'll be better, but often won't, so what's the real harm in this suggestion then?

And hey, let's restart this "debatte" into something more positive! I will change my first response to you:

Level 6 Support would be able to carry all 3 shotguns.
I think that's a bit imbalanced, sadly.

Sammers, i think you missed in my suggestion that i also changed the Support-perk's weight bonuses, meaning the Support is almost completely untouched (in terms of his ability to carry his shotguns)

And just an fyi: Even if i DIDN'T change the support perk's weight bonus and only changed the weight of the shotguns, you actually won't be able to carry all three of them! Because, right now you have (as level 6) the capacity of 24 weight. 1 weight is always occupied by your grenades, meaning you only have 23 spare weight. My suggested shotgun weight-total would be 7+8+9, which is 24. So, you wouldn't be able to carry all of them at once anyway. Just wanted to correct that assumption It doesn't really matter though as i actually did suggest a change in the Support weight bonus too. I guessed you just read the suggestion quickly and assumed i didn't?
Just wanted to make that clear for you and the other readers

 

[Sammers]

Do you really not want more stuff in the future? I mean, that would make the game die out later.

No, I don't. This game already has nearly everything covered. There is maybe room for another weak Medic gun and some non-offensive items, like flares etc.
This game has hit as high as ever, but we need to be realistic and see that simply adding lots and lots of new stuff wont make the game last forever, or even necessarily make it better.

Well, do you honestly not agreed that my "hostility" was a little bit more justified?

When it comes to the internet, nothing should justify hostility, as it is a pointless practice.

I see what you mean, you think the shotguns are quite handy offperk. But i must ask, do you really think there would be much harm in reducing the weight of the shotguns by 1 (2 for Hunting though)? As you say, people might think they'll be better, but often won't, so what's the real harm in this suggestion then?

Reducing the Xbow by 1 opened up plenty of new possibilities. It worked with the Xbow because it has a sufficient nerf, but I just don't see it working with shotguns. Some very usefuls weapons are low weight and it leaves room to combine them with shotguns. I see no sense in risking it if the shotguns don't absolutely have to be changed.