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- Thread starter kratier
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If it was the only fantastic game I own, I probably wouldn't.
But it isn't.
I have a lot of competition for my free time.
I'm not intrested in waiting 15 seconds once a day.
And then getting out of my chair and repeating the whole process on my 2nd PC, and then again on my 3rd PC and then again on my 4th PC and then again on my 5th PC and then again on my 6th PC and then again on my 7th PC and then again on my server.
Once a day! That means every bloody time I try and play it.
And all the while a load of drunk clowns in the room are shouting "are we there yet?"
No thanks.
How about we go with the first principle of programming. To make everything as user friendly as possible.
I understand that many people are happy with Steam and with the previous title being a Steam game that the idea that people aren't willing to pay for it, being anathema here.
That they do not blink at having to spend an extra 15+ seconds buggering about every time they want to play their game.
I get it.
But more and more people buy consoles each year to avoid this bollocks.
There is a clear and obvious demand not to have this.
User friendly is a design principle. People want it as a priority.
Just as I do not want a microwave oven that needs to login and update itself once a day for 15 seconds before I can defrost my toast... I don't want a video game that does either.
If I have the choice between one that does and one that does not, I shall choose the one that does not over the ones that does.
The path of least resistance is the path most travelled.
As to this being reason not to buy a game... what is the point of buying a game I won't use?
Or how much is a game that I won't use very often worth to me?
I only ever paid bargain bin prices for a Steam games.
But it isn't.
I have a lot of competition for my free time.
I'm not intrested in waiting 15 seconds once a day.
And then getting out of my chair and repeating the whole process on my 2nd PC, and then again on my 3rd PC and then again on my 4th PC and then again on my 5th PC and then again on my 6th PC and then again on my 7th PC and then again on my server.
Once a day! That means every bloody time I try and play it.
And all the while a load of drunk clowns in the room are shouting "are we there yet?"
No thanks.
How about we go with the first principle of programming. To make everything as user friendly as possible.
I understand that many people are happy with Steam and with the previous title being a Steam game that the idea that people aren't willing to pay for it, being anathema here.
That they do not blink at having to spend an extra 15+ seconds buggering about every time they want to play their game.
I get it.
But more and more people buy consoles each year to avoid this bollocks.
There is a clear and obvious demand not to have this.
User friendly is a design principle. People want it as a priority.
Just as I do not want a microwave oven that needs to login and update itself once a day for 15 seconds before I can defrost my toast... I don't want a video game that does either.
If I have the choice between one that does and one that does not, I shall choose the one that does not over the ones that does.
The path of least resistance is the path most travelled.
As to this being reason not to buy a game... what is the point of buying a game I won't use?
Or how much is a game that I won't use very often worth to me?
I only ever paid bargain bin prices for a Steam games.
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HeyCarnut
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Somehow, it seems more likely you'd be drinking solo, anyone else having left long before from boredom listening to you rant.
In any case, we get it: you're not buying because of steam. Devs are most certainly not going to change steam support. No need to repeat the same rant over and over and over and over...
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I'm not one to say never, just that it counts against.
That when I am making that decision, Steam will be a negative factor in it.
Nor was I attempting to change anything. Just to address a question asked on a subject I care about.
Sorry I bored you.
And thanks for your contribution to the discussion.
P.S. It's a shame that no matter how many times I elaborate you still won't get it.
That when I am making that decision, Steam will be a negative factor in it.
Nor was I attempting to change anything. Just to address a question asked on a subject I care about.
Sorry I bored you.
And thanks for your contribution to the discussion.
P.S. It's a shame that no matter how many times I elaborate you still won't get it.
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HeyCarnut
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I <3 Steam. If a game is on it, that's where I buy it. Never had any significant issue with the platform.
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blessed are those who have a good enough internet connection to be able to take advantage of steam. I have to suffer with a pathetic internet quota (I could get decent internet but that would be $30/month saved and $50/week spent on rent) and an ISP that will not meter downloads from its steam mirrors. This is fairly fine in that I can play ro team fortress, l4d bf2 etc, any game they have a server for, but I have several games on my computer (new vegas being one good example) where it patched twice when I was away (so I have to download the whole game again) and I have no practical means to get the game patched. Thankfully, there's enough people playing ro on their staff that this shouldn't be a problem with ro2, but still it can be a pain
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Nice tip. I notice someone else had come up with that in the below posted BIS thread also.
[URL="http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=115256"][URL="http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=115256"][URL="http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=115256"][URL="http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=115256"]http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=115256[/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]
What a pity it doesn't install that way by default, instead of trying to force everyone to watch adverts for their products.
I found the above thread quite intresting.
It's from a game called Armed Assault 2, a game I expect many of us here are familiar with.
Armed Assault 2, currently provides gamers the choice of Steam or no Steam.
65% of gamers polled chose no Steam. The great bulk of all copies sold were No Steam.
This is obviously a different demographic to the posters on this forum, becuase although both games are targeted at the same audience and there is a lot of cross over sales between them, everyone on this forum, either learnt to suck it in with Steam or play something else.
By a process of natural selection people who don't get into Steam, have either given up playing RO or been forum trolled into submission by the majority.
So I don't really and honestly believe that the general consensus here best reflects the opinions of any potential customer base for this product.
For those people here for whom it didn't ever occour that there is a significant amount of gamers for whom Steam is an issue, I'll repost the link.
In it a games developer asks his forum audeince how they would feel about their next title becoming exclusively distributed through Steam. Currently, although the game is still available to buy through Steam, it has no dependancy on it.
[URL="http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=115256"][URL="http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=115256"][URL="http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=115256"][URL]http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=115256[/URL][/URL][/URL][URL="http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=115256"][URL="http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=115256"]
[/URL][/URL][/URL]
So I really do think limiting the game so that it requires Steam rather than just having the option of Steam for those who wish.....
Is going to cost any publisher money.
It's going to hamper sales. Reduce the total number of them and reduce the price that people are willing to pay for the software.
I'm not attempting to suggest that Tripwire should abandon Steam. Far from it. But I think they would profit from extending their playerbase beyond Steam.
More is more. As they say.
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I start RO/Killing Floor / all Steam Games from my Windows 7 Jumplist for Steam....
Right Click, Left Click okay one Click more than with Desktop Icons but hey less stuff flying around on my Desktop.
And one can go directly to the Library and doesn't have to go to Store.
One big Advantage of Steam for me is, that i don't have to spend Time looking for game updates etc.
Looks like this:
Right Click, Left Click okay one Click more than with Desktop Icons but hey less stuff flying around on my Desktop.
And one can go directly to the Library and doesn't have to go to Store
.One big Advantage of Steam for me is, that i don't have to spend Time looking for game updates etc.
Looks like this:
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baff you're bashing your head against a wall here.
Some people like steam.
Some people don't because they still view it as bloated or inefficient.
Some people don't because they have legitimate reasons.
You can propose all the hypothetical situations you want - multiple PC's, extra 15 seconds to load a game (really?), whatever...doesn't matter.
Ignoring the effect on PC gaming as a whole (as that discussion does not belong in this particular thread/forum) TWI owes a great deal to Steam, and as an independent PC developer Steam is extremely important to them - as far as I'm aware you can't have both a Steam version (using Steamworks) and a non-Steam version playing together anyway. So they've essentially got to release 2 versions of the game that are incompatible with eachother, that need to be patched and updated independetly as well.
It doesn't make sense, and it isn't going to happen.
Some people like steam.
Some people don't because they still view it as bloated or inefficient.
Some people don't because they have legitimate reasons.
You can propose all the hypothetical situations you want - multiple PC's, extra 15 seconds to load a game (really?), whatever...doesn't matter.
Ignoring the effect on PC gaming as a whole (as that discussion does not belong in this particular thread/forum) TWI owes a great deal to Steam, and as an independent PC developer Steam is extremely important to them - as far as I'm aware you can't have both a Steam version (using Steamworks) and a non-Steam version playing together anyway. So they've essentially got to release 2 versions of the game that are incompatible with eachother, that need to be patched and updated independetly as well.
It doesn't make sense, and it isn't going to happen.
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Neither does anecdotal evidence. You'll find plenty of anti-Steam, pro-Steam and something inbetween on the internet if you google around for few hours. Some of them are heavily skewed in both ways (aka blind hate\blind love) and some of them are more reasonable, especially when we're talking talking about preferences. Considering 300 votes is pretty small amount to consider regarding how many people actually own ArmA2, does that make BI studio consensus is more accurate and factual than TWI forum consensus or is it just because it fits your own preference the best?
Don't get me wrong, not pointing any fingers here but the way you bring things up and mention is just questionable to say the least.
baff said:
It's more related to the simple fact: console is easy to use. PC is not, regardless if you want to pin point it to a single 'flaw' so to speak. With console it's pretty simple to pop up and play the game, with PC you need OS, you need proper drivers, you need to take care of anti-virus, firewall and other protection, need to adjust things, settings and yadayada. It's not like Steam suddenly came up with the idea that PC requires more attension and care to keep it running properly and even then it can still be pain in the arse.
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This is not hypothetical. I run multiple PC's. Administration time is big concern.
It might not matter to you, but it clearly does to me.
15 seconds is the time a previous poster suggested to me. I haven't actually timed how much longer it takes me to launch a Steam game compared to a regular title. When I say that my Steam games simply do not get used. This is not hypothetical. They don't. I regret having bought them.
Which is a shame as they are all excellent games about which I was excited. As indeed I am about RO2.
I understand the history of Tripwire with Steam.
I also recognise that the making of two release versions will cause them extra work, just as it does for BIS.
However, if you want extra pay... you have to do extra work. Ain't life a *****!
If they wish to chase a wider audience... a wider audience is out there.
The option is there for the taking.
It would benefit me personally if they did, even if it did not benefit you. I also believe it would financially reward them just as it has other companies.
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You're still going on and on about the fact you don't like Steam. We get it, enough already! You won't waste 15 seconds with steam but you've been here *****ing for days and nobody cares!
Nobody!
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If your admining multiple PCs, won't it already been easier for patching them if all you had to do to keep multiple Games up to date is start Steam now and then ?
But yes it takes longer to start a Game through Steam than without, but it requires the same Action. Clicking a desktop Icon...
But it also takes longer to boot a new Title than a old game... so your not going to play a modern Game cause they take longer to load ?
P.S.
You define where your Steam Games get installed by choosing your Steam Installation.
You don't have to login manually into Steam each time you start it, one can autosave Username / Password.
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Yes, it's by no means an unusable system... but it's more effort than than is required.
So if I want to install a game to my SSD drive for example becuase it prefers a faster HDD for streaming, then do I have to uninstall Steam and reinstall it and set it up of my SSD drive not my regular games HDD or the default C drive?
Obviously my SSD isn't big enough to put just any of my games, just the 2 or 3 that will actually benefit from it. So I won't be able to install all my Steam games to the same drive if I want to make use of this. And so on and so on.
It's bloody unfriendly software and adds nothing to my game experience in return for all the extra argy bargy of using it.
No mate, the trick is to find a version that works and then never update again.
The very last thing I want to be doing is installing untested software when my mates come over.
If we all have just a few hours off, we want to go go go... not patch and update and test. (and defrag and lalala).
So if I want to install a game to my SSD drive for example becuase it prefers a faster HDD for streaming, then do I have to uninstall Steam and reinstall it and set it up of my SSD drive not my regular games HDD or the default C drive?
Obviously my SSD isn't big enough to put just any of my games, just the 2 or 3 that will actually benefit from it. So I won't be able to install all my Steam games to the same drive if I want to make use of this. And so on and so on.
It's bloody unfriendly software and adds nothing to my game experience in return for all the extra argy bargy of using it.
No mate, the trick is to find a version that works and then never update again.
The very last thing I want to be doing is installing untested software when my mates come over.
If we all have just a few hours off, we want to go go go... not patch and update and test. (and defrag and lalala).
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Easy, set Steam to never update your Games.
Though with most Games which are played online you'd want to update to play on other People's Server.
Ain't many Games out there that i'd think one would not want to update....
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I host my own servers and I prefer to play offline wherever possible.
Typically, I only update games if they add extra content I am intrested in or fix bugs that I am actually experiencing.
I used to religiously patch everything on the first day... and then get caught out and have to uninstall reinstall and bla bla bla or not play until the hotfix... and yada yada yada. You know, frequent forums and write posts like OMFG Gief PATCH! OMFG RELEASE PATCH TODAY!!! I'm a bit too old for that now.
And for what? improvements I can't visually detect?
And then all my PC's get out of sync as some are updated and others aren't and UG!
I patch if I need to patch and not before.
Thanks for the tips on update settings. If I ever use it again, I'll remember to set this. (Along with the desktop shortcuts, the other chap has suggested).
Once again, this is an extra step I do not have to take with other games. It's the reason I don't bother with Steam.
Learning a second operating system isn't an advantage.
The one I already use (Windows) should be enough. I CBA to arse about with it when I have other hassle free choices already installed. I know that sounds so lame... but there you are.
Gaming is meant to be fun not administrative.
Typically, I only update games if they add extra content I am intrested in or fix bugs that I am actually experiencing.
I used to religiously patch everything on the first day... and then get caught out and have to uninstall reinstall and bla bla bla or not play until the hotfix... and yada yada yada. You know, frequent forums and write posts like OMFG Gief PATCH! OMFG RELEASE PATCH TODAY!!! I'm a bit too old for that now.
And for what? improvements I can't visually detect?
And then all my PC's get out of sync as some are updated and others aren't and UG!
I patch if I need to patch and not before.
Thanks for the tips on update settings. If I ever use it again, I'll remember to set this. (Along with the desktop shortcuts, the other chap has suggested).
Once again, this is an extra step I do not have to take with other games. It's the reason I don't bother with Steam.
Learning a second operating system isn't an advantage.
The one I already use (Windows) should be enough. I CBA to arse about with it when I have other hassle free choices already installed. I know that sounds so lame... but there you are.
Gaming is meant to be fun not administrative.
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Well if you host your own Servers, and never update the Games, than Steam will only increase your Game loading times.
But considering that you got several load phases during the Process of getting into the Game (Loading Intro/Menu/Map), the additional wait incurred by Steam will certainly a small Amount of the Total Time.
A small increase stays an increase even if its only 1 Second or 15, the question for yourself should be if your willing to get through installing Steam on all your PCs once, set them up on all PCs once (Desktop Icon and disabling auto Update).
Or if you want to miss out on one of the few True PC games coming out nowadays. Its okay if you don't want to do the above steps, but this Game will ship with Steam. Now i'd suggest waiting until its released and Ingame Gameplay Vids become widely avaible.
This will make it easier for you to decide whether you'd like to put that extra effort in.
If you are someone who takes Screenshots, Steam has an interesting new Feature which manages Screenshots in your Games. Kinda nice imho.
But considering that you got several load phases during the Process of getting into the Game (Loading Intro/Menu/Map), the additional wait incurred by Steam will certainly a small Amount of the Total Time.
A small increase stays an increase even if its only 1 Second or 15, the question for yourself should be if your willing to get through installing Steam on all your PCs once, set them up on all PCs once (Desktop Icon and disabling auto Update).
Or if you want to miss out on one of the few True PC games coming out nowadays. Its okay if you don't want to do the above steps, but this Game will ship with Steam. Now i'd suggest waiting until its released and Ingame Gameplay Vids become widely avaible.
This will make it easier for you to decide whether you'd like to put that extra effort in.
If you are someone who takes Screenshots, Steam has an interesting new Feature which manages Screenshots in your Games. Kinda nice imho.
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There is lots of nice features in Steam for those who wish to use it.
But for me the only feature I really want from Steam is the option not to.
If this game is Steam only, then for me there is an increased necessity for it to excell.
I certainly will be trying before I buy.
More than likely is I just won't rush into it. Buy it a year later for discount when all the bugs have been squashed/updates been finished.
That's the sort of balance that gets tipped by Steam for me.
I'm 100% confident that it will be a game I will enjoy, but there are just so many others.
There are no end of true PC games coming out now in my opinion. From a zillion and one MMO's to RTS.
This year is set to be a good year.
So far I have bought.. an expansion for WoW, an expansion for ArmA 2.
Men of War Assault Squad.
I am looking forward to buying, the IL2 Sturmovik game and the new Total War and also Men of War Vietnam this easter.
Champions Online went free to play. Planetside 2 has been announced.
And console dev's are moaning that current gen is not enough for them and are starting to develop technology titles again.
I also expect to be playing at least 2 console ports and enjoying them. Batman Arkham Asylum and Duke Nukem.
I'll have a go with the new Operation Flashpoint port for my LAN too, along with Dungeon Siege 3. I saw another dedicated PC multiplayer I liked the look of too. Some fantasy bash. Darkspore maybe?
But for me the only feature I really want from Steam is the option not to.
If this game is Steam only, then for me there is an increased necessity for it to excell.
I certainly will be trying before I buy.
More than likely is I just won't rush into it. Buy it a year later for discount when all the bugs have been squashed/updates been finished.
That's the sort of balance that gets tipped by Steam for me.
I'm 100% confident that it will be a game I will enjoy, but there are just so many others.
There are no end of true PC games coming out now in my opinion. From a zillion and one MMO's to RTS.
This year is set to be a good year.
So far I have bought.. an expansion for WoW, an expansion for ArmA 2.
Men of War Assault Squad.
I am looking forward to buying, the IL2 Sturmovik game and the new Total War and also Men of War Vietnam this easter.
Champions Online went free to play. Planetside 2 has been announced.
And console dev's are moaning that current gen is not enough for them and are starting to develop technology titles again.
I also expect to be playing at least 2 console ports and enjoying them. Batman Arkham Asylum and Duke Nukem.
I'll have a go with the new Operation Flashpoint port for my LAN too, along with Dungeon Siege 3. I saw another dedicated PC multiplayer I liked the look of too. Some fantasy bash. Darkspore maybe?
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