Ping Pong Tanks?

[[TW]Wilsonam]

Is it not simply applying the same technique used for the bullet-wounds on infantry?

No. Needs a new system - and you wouldn't see it except at close range anyway.

Aside from that, I haven't read the whole thread (makes my eyes bleed). Just a few comments, based on what I've seen:

1. The armor model is now far more complex than it ever was in RO1. There are some many angles and corners that "angling" is very hard to do effectively now. I still haven't even worked out the best way to present a T-34 against the Pz IV. The German 75 can chew up the T-34 quite easily, when presented with a side shot of any sort.

2. HEAT and APCR rounds will come later. Probably along with UBR-354A and B, for those so fussy

3. We're still tweaking the damage numbers (post-penetration). There is another issue that we haven't really found the perfect answer to: in the real world, once a few kilos of hardened steel bounce around inside a vehicle, smash a couple of crew, then the rest of the crew are LEAVING, as fast as they can. In game, there isn't really any incentive to do so. We may up the speed at which a tank brews to compensate for this - see the last phase of the beta for that balance testing!

Right now our suspicion is that we aren't doling out enough behind-armor damage after a round penetrates. But that is easily adjusted over the next couple of weeks.

And as for rounds penetrating but doing no damage - it did happen. But you'd have to be very lucky

 

[Altus]

Right now our suspicion is that we aren't doling out enough behind-armor damage after a round penetrates. But that is easily adjusted over the next couple of weeks.

And as for rounds penetrating but doing no damage - it did happen. But you'd have to be very lucky

This is exactly what has been my concern, glad to see that you are aware of it.

Perhaps there isn't enough explosion/spalling-related splash-damage post penetration in the current version of the game?

 

[Darkseed]

Thanks for clearing that up Wilsonam, us tankers are probably some of the most fussy people you'll find.

On the topic of after penetration, the kinetic energy left after the shell penetrates plays a big part in the killing power of it. Basically it should have a much bigger chance of causing havoc inside the tank if it penetrates a weaker part of the armor. There is also the matter of partial penetrations, are those modeled?

 

[Krator]

I feel soooo much better knowing, that you guys are still working on this.
Thank you, now RO:HOS looks appealing to me again.

 

[[TW]Wilsonam]

On the topic of after penetration, the kinetic energy left after the shell penetrates plays a big part in the killing power of it. Basically it should have a much bigger chance of causing havoc inside the tank if it penetrates a weaker part of the armor. There is also the matter of partial penetrations, are those modeled?

Yes.

 

[Nowotny]

1. The armor model is now far more complex than it ever was in RO1. There are some many angles and corners that "angling" is very hard to do effectively now. I still haven't even worked out the best way to present a T-34 against the Pz IV. The German 75 can chew up the T-34 quite easily, when presented with a side shot of any sort.

I'd sure hope so, the 75mm on the the P4 shouldn't have any real issues penetrating even the frontal armour on the T34 up to like 1000 meters away.

But it's cool that you guys are still tweaking this kinda stuff.

 

[Homuth]

Thanks for the comments on this Wilsonam

 

[sez_slothrop]

Why not suppress the surviving members of a penetrated tank?

 

[Kashash]

Oh.... my god.... I've tried to explain it to you as easily and straight forwards as I could. If you're going to try and shove words into my mouth or take different meanings from things that have no relation, then I'm not going to continue this with you.

The term "Pixelhunting" doesn't relate if the tank is 100 metres away from you and can clearly see the details of the tank, including the tracks... the tracks are not the size of cookies, they're big targets on the tank... it doesn't matter where the hell the tank is in regards to distance in regards to what I was talking about..... and if you're trying to shoot a tank that's so far away that it's only a few pixels on the screen, then that's your first mistake.

Of course you need to know wtf to hit them.... if you know nothing about where a tank's weak spots are and where it's stronger spots are, then you shouldn't be in a tank.

If you don't like the benefits and physics relating to sloped armour and angling your tank, go play something else, because if you can't figure it out by now, you probably never will.

BF2 had tanks with hitpoints and a hit anywhere on it produces the same damage, so go have fun.

 

[Depulsor]

^Happened to me more than once. Always hilarious especially when I was watching it through my gun sight and not on the receiving end .

I was on the recieving end too often , since that i always took distance from allied tanks

 

[Kashash]

The effect after the penetration is one thing but is the every area of the tank actually fully modeled? So when aiming the T34's turret you have to hit the very center of the turret to penetrate it otherwise it might bounce off if you hit the sloped part -->

Or is it just basically modeled as a vertical plate with a certain value code?

Answer would be much appreciated, thanks.

 

[Krator]

Good question. The angle on this part is too little for 75L43 to not penetrate anyways, but yeah, top 10cm could pose some problems if lucky.
But since its 2011 and tank models are supposed to be very detailed, I think that even such details as armor weaker at optics area are modeled.

 

[Kashash]

Same with the PzIV. I think each part drawn below on the pic should deflect a shell differently...

 

[RiccardoTheBeAst]

uber cut.

Thank you a lot for the answer

Yes.

Wooot! Nice! I never asked/proposed for this because i always thought "noone will give a f**k about that", but it's really nice to see that you're going to implement it!

It's nice to see also the working instrumentation inside the tank!

I'd sure hope so, the 75mm on the the P4 shouldn't have any real issues penetrating even the frontal armour on the T34 up to like 1000 meters away.

But it's cool that you guys are still tweaking this kinda stuff.

The battle goes on........actually we discussed a lot about this and it looks that the hard 45mm plate of the T-34 can be penetrated by a max distance of ~500/600 meters (Kwk 40). Supposing that the game features also spalling, i think that it's possible to wound the crewmen also from 1000 meters, anyway...

The F-34 should penetrate the PzIV's 50mm also from 1500 meters or more (there is also a little bit of difference between UBR-354 A and B) but this is compensated by the higher reloading time.

I have some questions for Alan (if he wants to/knows the/can answer ):

-If you say that the UBR-354 A and B will come in the future, which of these two is the AP actually in game?

-Are you going to adjust the reloading times for Kwk 40 and F-34? (in RO1 it's 13 seconds for T-34 model 1941 and 10 seconds for Pz IV F2, in ToW it's 11 seconds for T-34 model 1943 and 6,5 seconds for Pz IV F2/G/H)

-What about the possibility to turn on/off the engine?

-What is the exact T-34 model? With which front-turret armor? 52mm? 70mm??

The effect after the penetration is one thing but is the every area of the tank actually fully modeled? So when aiming the T34's turret you have to hit the very center of the turret to penetrate it otherwise it might bounce off if you hit the sloped part -->

cut.

Or is it just basically modeled as a vertical plate with a certain value code?

cut.

Answer would be much appreciated, thanks.

Good question, IMHO they modeled every part.

Anyway, the 40mm mantlet of T-34 will not be a problem for the Kwk 40

 

[Zrix]

BF2 had tanks with hitpoints and a hit anywhere on it produces the same damage, so go have fun.

Actually, a hit to the front/side/rear/top does different damage. Damage can also be affected by the angle of the round impact, although this feature is barely implemented in the vanilla game. The Forgotten Hope 2 mod has angle damage fully activated. There's however no internal component damage.

 

[kmanmx]

Hey everyone.

I am a lurker on these forums. I very rarely post.. in fact this might be my first, i can't actually remember.

I love reading these threads and the enthusiasm the fans have for this game. It is why i love PC gaming. I own the original RO, but only really played it for a about 5 or 10 hours. But this 2nd version is looking extremely good indeed, and i can't wait to try out the beta for us digital deluxe pre-order people

I don't want people to take this the wrong way, but i think it needs to be said. I am like the rest of you, i have all these ideas, thoughts, questions about the game. Why is this like this ? why havn't you done this ?

However, over the past year or so i have been doing a degree in Computer Games Programming at University. And i have learned even the most basic of things can take a long time to implement and perfect. I don't think some people realize just how difficult some things are to implement, and it is quite possible that some requested features are in fact impossible - whether that be because the Unreal Engine 3 doesn't support it, or because it would ruin balancing, or simply because it would chew up to much computation time. Also another problem is Physics, physics is awesome, and that's fine in multiplayer. But syncing physics over multiplayer between 64 clients - that is very difficult, and isn't a task i wish to try and complete put it that way

I hope everyone understands what i am saying. In a perfect world where the developers had a perfect game engine, unlimited money, and a more powerful computer system than can be comprehended i am sure everyone's request would be filled. But sometimes it's just not immediately feasible.

That said keep it up, it makes for a fun read

 

[sez_slothrop]

The battle goes on........actually we discussed a lot about this and it looks that the hard 45mm plate of the T-34 can be penetrated by a max distance of ~500/600 meters (Kwk 40).

I've never encountered a number this low before. What is your reasoning?

 

[Kashash]

Anyway, the 40mm mantlet of T-34 will not be a problem for the Kwk 40

Yes, although with a luck still could ricochet if it hits very edge of the mantlet, or especially if it's 52mm or 70mm version.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Hey everyone.

I am a lurker on these forums. I very rarely post.. in fact this might be my first, i can't actually remember.

I love reading these threads and the enthusiasm the fans have for this game. It is why i love PC gaming. I own the original RO, but only really played it for a about 5 or 10 hours. But this 2nd version is looking extremely good indeed, and i can't wait to try out the beta for us digital deluxe pre-order people

I don't want people to take this the wrong way, but i think it needs to be said. I am like the rest of you, i have all these ideas, thoughts, questions about the game. Why is this like this ? why havn't you done this ?

However, over the past year or so i have been doing a degree in Computer Games Programming at University. And i have learned even the most basic of things can take a long time to implement and perfect. I don't think some people realize just how difficult some things are to implement, and it is quite possible that some requested features are in fact impossible - whether that be because the Unreal Engine 3 doesn't support it, or because it would ruin balancing, or simply because it would chew up to much computation time. Also another problem is Physics, physics is awesome, and that's fine in multiplayer. But syncing physics over multiplayer between 64 clients - that is very difficult, and isn't a task i wish to try and complete put it that way

I hope everyone understands what i am saying. In a perfect world where the developers had a perfect game engine, unlimited money, and a more powerful computer system than can be comprehended i am sure everyone's request would be filled. But sometimes it's just not immediately feasible.

That said keep it up, it makes for a fun read

Nice first post, and Welcome!

 

[choolio]

It is something we want to do, but may not make it in before launch.

would be awesome ... even if this feature isn