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PBBans supports Red Orchestra 2

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#161
well hopefully pb can do a better job than cod and bf they a rife with private hacks. one of main reasons im slowly going away from fps gaming is its so infested with hackers its unreal.

pb vac could do alot better . also for those that dont know some of these posting are pb bans admins ;) so im sure there posts might be slightly biased

thing is with alot of the hacks like mentioned already they just bypass pb and vac anyway and are big business now . like some are undetected and over four year old ! :( 4 yrs really come on .

screenshot taking lol how out of date is that :( almost every decent hack has a cleaner or just turns off the hack. its stone age trying to catch upto date cheats. it works for most of the silly people who are blatant but most of the decent paid ones just dont get caught.

what games people should do is lock all settings make things simple .

give people basic settings and any other is a ban !

so for eg

give people normal options plus

option to change fov and fps thats it !

then lock everything. any changes ban.


this will only get worse unless people get harder on it. also if some one has cheated more than once then most likely they return do it again. some people i have checked for eg have been banned like 40 times in cod 4 :confused:

how can people like this just keep playing its a joke.

hopefully tripwire chip in and help make catching cheats easier cause this is what needs to happen in fps gaming especially on line and the games makers start helping . they get your money so they should help out .
 
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#162
Raneman said:
Punkbuster is like what John Rambo would be like fighting bad guys in a crowded mall: he takes them down faster, but for every bad guy he kills, he causes thousands in property damage, and stray bullets mow down dozens of civilians.

VAC is like a trained assassin. His quarry is free to do whatever he likes, until he wakes up one day to find piano wire around his neck.
Click to expand...

Nice analogy, but quite off track. :p
 
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#163
dgeesi0 said:
give people basic settings and any other is a ban !

so for eg

give people normal options plus

option to change fov and fps thats it !

then lock everything. any changes ban.
Click to expand...

That is a bit overkill, isn't it? Some people have PC's that may use certain settings that others do not. It depends on the system used to play the game. Locking down most of the system is not the way to go. Look at how MW2 turned out with a locked down console.
 
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#164
Interesting thread!

Someone mentioned earlier about a hypothetical personal grudge banning from a server admin. And PBBans staff answered that the admin has to present a case for the ban to go global. (don't remember the page to quote it from..)

My question is this: Is it possible that a mad scientist admin (not any of the current ro admins of course) could send a screenshot from a captured cheater and use that screenshot and apply it to another's case? (someone he holds a grudge against).

Or does PB imbed that with system id like GUID, steam ID or hardware ID etc.
In other words, is it tamper proof.

Thanks for all the info and cheat protection!
 
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#165
endorphin said:
Is it possible that a mad scientist admin (not any of the current ro admins of course) could send a screenshot from a captured cheater and use that screenshot and apply it to another's case?
Click to expand...
Only if the recipient is a noob and will try to read the bannable information (GUID etc.) from the - in that case: photoshoped - PunkBuster-ScreenShot (PBSS). *see footnote

endorphin said:
Or does PB imbed that with system id like GUID, steam ID or hardware ID etc.
Click to expand...
- PunkBuster-Server provides the security features. (sidenote: HW-IDs are a myth)
- Live-Streaming will ensure the validity of (PBSS and any) bans.

Lets take a look at a random PBSS Ban http://www.pbbans.com/mbi-viewban-5fe95831-vb137481.html ,
each screen is captioned with some header information ...

image1yoc.jpg

Code: 
PB Screenshot #1 (081d99c0.png)
MD5     6D879597F1CB03CDAE25B58D10357760
File Date       Jul 26, 2009 at 3:53:15 pm
... that was extracted from the submitted PBSS 081d99c0.png (File-Header information) itself, the MD5 hash is calculated directly from the PBSS File 081d99c0.png by the submission system.
So far the information taken from the submitted PBSS.

Follows "PBSS Log Data" block, this is information taken from streamed PunkBuster-Server logs.

The process behind this: Player's PunkBuster-Client takes a PBSS, submits it to PunkBuster-Server (the game-server), PB-Server generates a MD5sum Fingerprint (and logs the result) of the submitted PBSS and stores the PBSS in the local server database; all these actions are loged & streamed:
Code: 
[07.26.2009 15:53:15] ->PBSV: Screenshot 
   /svss/pb000848.png successfully received
   (MD5=6D879597F1CB03CDAE25B58D10357760)
   from 21 Hakim [6ab448e7785677c931e03a7c5fe95831(VALID)
   212.116.110.207:64468]
(a server log without streaming is nothing but a plain-text-file, i.e. no secure proof for validity)

Now the data extracted from the PBSS-Submission (Game, GUID, Server IP:port) and the MD5 hash calculated from the pic have to match the streamed log data from Server (IP:port).

In fact our submission-system will auto refuse a submission in case a matching MD5sum is not found in the streamed DataBase from this (IP:port) streaming Game-Server.

___
*footnote: experienced admins always take this information from pb-server logs.
more info: http://www.pbbans.com/info-center-pbssguide.html#pbsstext

Hackers with no clue about PB's build in security features used to create hacks that will obscure the PB-screenshot's information block (client-sided!) ... nevertheless we ban them :p
http://www.pbbans.com/mbi-viewban-e4113dfb-vb107023.html (usual format: Line #3: *32-GUID*)
... as the pb-server logs (server-sided) are always unaffected, and the tampered PBSS gives nice proof for the use of a PB-Hack.
 
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#171
Inuki said:
I find having a healthy amount of mature admins around is pretty good against cheats anyway. As well as a vote to kick option. Vote to kick can get very annoying though when someone spams it.
Click to expand...

Or when 10 votes are needed and only 3 people care to vote...
Seeing people rage in chat about the cheater and not voting is really disappointing:eek:
 
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#172
Has punkbuster finally managed to auto update it's software?
Seriously, you just want to play a game, start it up and go to the server browser and connect..........PENG.....disconnect because of an old punkbuster version. Then you have to locate the effing folder click update......wait........wait.......wait........and then you can start up the game again with all the useless Nvidia intros and crap.


Other then that I've never had a problem with punkbuster, but the updating thing really really reaaaallyy pissed me off.
 
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#173
There is a quick-fix, a Tool that is simple and self-explanatory :eek:)
Personally i always wanted to use game-servers as game-servers, not as download-servers. Instead of moaning about lag etc. annoyances, my goal was to figure what i could do myself to minimize lag and avoid rookie mistakes for the best gaming experience. To run pbsetup prior to a gaming session is mandatory ... for me, but whatever floats your boat.

Floyd said:
In RO we were lucky in that (for the most part) the game wasn't rampant with cheats like many of the other game series. So the perception for those that almost exclusively play RO is that cheating is not such a big issue.
Click to expand...
Quite likely, my impression as well. From what i saw there was little if any interest for this game in cheatcoder circles. The 1 1/2 cheats i found on a quick and quite random research where "patched off by steam" /quote, shortly after release - i.e.: patched by the game developers (steam will not patch into game engines, will they). That is the point that will make a significant difference to all recent game releases imo. We saw so many games with still unpatched flaws and exploits, and only a working game support could solve this. Anti-Cheat will always fail when it starts to deal with game bugs and weaknesses (thus we don't), it is no use to "catch" 1 out of 50 if the source had to be eliminated in the first place.

ButchCassidy said:
I hope that you guys will release a comprehensive "How To" guide on these forums prior to release so that all admins and players can take advantage of PB's great AC tools.
Click to expand...
Well, maybe for a start some global stuff:

http://www.evenbalance.com/index.php?page=faq-generic.php[url]http://www.evenbalance.com/index.php?page=faq-generic.php[/URL]
http://www.evenbalance.com/publications/generic-pl/index.htm[url]http://www.evenbalance.com/publications/generic-pl/index.htm[/URL]
http://www.evenbalance.com/publications/generic-ad/index.htm[url]http://www.evenbalance.com/publications/generic-ad/index.htm[/URL]

http://www.evenbalance.com/index.php?page=support.php[url]http://www.evenbalance.com/index.php?page=support.php[/URL]

http://www.pbbans.com/information-center.html[url]http://www.pbbans.com/information-center.html[/URL] (or my sig)
 
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#174
Benway said:
There is a quick-fix, a Tool that is simple and self-explanatory :eek:)
Personally i always wanted to use game-servers as game-servers, not as download-servers. Instead of moaning about lag etc. annoyances, my goal was to figure what i could do myself to minimize lag and avoid rookie mistakes for the best gaming experience. To run pbsetup prior to a gaming session is mandatory ... for me, but whatever floats your boat.


Quite likely, my impression as well. From what i saw there was little if any interest for this game in cheatcoder circles. The 1 1/2 cheats i found on a quick and quite random research where "patched off by steam" /quote, shortly after release - i.e.: patched by the game developers (steam will not patch into game engines, will they). That is the point that will make a significant difference to all recent game releases imo. We saw so many games with still unpatched flaws and exploits, and only a working game support could solve this. Anti-Cheat will always fail when it starts to deal with game bugs and weaknesses (thus we don't), it is no use to "catch" 1 out of 50 if the source had to be eliminated in the first place.


Well, maybe for a start some global stuff:

http://www.evenbalance.com/index.php?page=faq-generic.php[url]http://www.evenbalance.com/index.php?page=faq-generic.php[/URL]
http://www.evenbalance.com/publications/generic-pl/index.htm[url]http://www.evenbalance.com/publications/generic-pl/index.htm[/URL]
http://www.evenbalance.com/publications/generic-ad/index.htm[url]http://www.evenbalance.com/publications/generic-ad/index.htm[/URL]

http://www.evenbalance.com/index.php?page=support.php[url]http://www.evenbalance.com/index.php?page=support.php[/URL]

http://www.pbbans.com/information-center.html[url]http://www.pbbans.com/information-center.html[/URL] (or my sig)
Click to expand...
I'm getting more and more confident that the inclusion of PB and PBBans was a very wise choice from TWI :D
 
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#175
Benway said:
. We saw so many games with still unpatched flaws and exploits, and only a working game support could solve this. Anti-Cheat will always fail when it starts to deal with game bugs and weaknesses (thus we don't), it is no use to "catch" 1 out of 50 if the source had to be eliminated in the first place.
Click to expand...
Fortunately TW has active and working game support when it comes to bugs, exploits and discovered cheats.....

I forsee the masses flocking to RO2 because of the aggressive stance against cheaters by TW.
 
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#176
Floyd said:
Fortunately TW has active and working game support when it comes to bugs, exploits and discovered cheats.....

I forsee the masses flocking to RO2 because of the aggressive stance against cheaters by TW.
Click to expand...

One way to help get the masses to RO2, is to get the word out by posting about it on yours and your friends' websites.
 
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#179
guiltyspark said:
pb bans is the single biggest threat to pc gaming

stop this cancer before it spreads , what they are doing is illegal
Click to expand...

sounds like you've been on the banlist
if you was, im sure it was for good reason

PB streaming to pbbans is the best and i thank them for their hard work

if you guys think VAC works
i suggest you play call of duty modern warfare 2
vac only and no banlists
and IT IS FULL OF CHEATERS
 
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#180
HellBilly said:
sounds like you've been on the banlist
if you was, im sure it was for good reason

PB streaming to pbbans is the best and i thank them for their hard work
Click to expand...
never been on the ban list

What they are doing is wrong not only legally , but from a logical standpoint as well.

these ****ty server moderation programs have been popping up regularly all over the place

most notably on minecraft , where its been proven time and time again that innocent people are getting permabanned by abusive admins and bugs.

By supporting this garbage you are fully supporting that the product you own is not actually yours , that a 3rd party entity who was not part of the development , nor the contractual legal agreements of the product is allowed to modify your access of multiplayer with no legal ability to do so.


ANYONE who supports this either knows nothing about it and its real trials in practice , or you are just plainly ignorant.

Supporting this **** is supporting the idea that at any time on any server this program can take away your ability to use that product online with any server that supports it.


Simply put , when i read the EULA for red orchestra , doesnt say **** about my use of the product online being dependant on behavior on a universal basis. Its illegal and its a ****ty solution to a problem that can simply be adressed by competent admins and not lazy ****s.


the more servers that adopt this travesty the worse it will be.

THOUSANDS of gamers have been unjustly blacklisted , **** PBbans and **** all who support it.


And most importantly no , this cant be swept away as "oh its a mod anything goes anything anybody chooses to run on their server is their choice"

I would agree if it were not for the fact that it alters the ability to access my product , which franlky isnt a mod at all , it itself is a hack.
 
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