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PBBans supports Red Orchestra 2

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#183
SuperTaz said:
Tell me exactly, what is PBBans.com doing that is illegal? :confused:
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i will have not signed any legal agreement from tripwire saying that my online play is being monitored and i can be blacklisted from many servers as a result.

what you are doing is a breach of the EULA and even lawsuit worthy.

A third party cannot under any curimstances alter a persons access to a product unless they were part of the legal contracts when making the game.

In this case punkbuster signed on with tripwire and this is fine , what is not fine is making a 3rd party program that blacklists players without any permission from the developers of the game or even punkbuster in general.

If im wrong and you have legal documentation saying you are allowed to alter my access to this product show me.

until then what you are doing is highly illegal
 
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#184
As long as you do not cheat, you will not have any problems. The only way to get banned by PBBans, or by Even Balance, is if you knowingly use a cheat.

In this case punkbuster signed on with tripwire and this is fine , what is not fine is making a 3rd party program that blacklists players without any permission from the developers of the game or even punkbuster in general.
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And we do have permission from the developers as posted here:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=754711&postcount=1

For those not already aware, we are also very excited to announce the selection of PunkBuster™ Anti-Cheat software and PBBans streaming ban support for the game, in addition to using Valve Anti-Cheat (VAC). "With the selection of PunkBuster and PBBans in addition to VAC we're taking a three pronged approach to cheat protection for Red Orchestra 2," said John Gibson, Tripwire Interactive President. "We hope this sends a strong message to gamers that we take cheating very seriously and are tackling it head on BEFORE the game ships."
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Next time, read the news announcements before going overboard. :)
 
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#185
SuperTaz said:
As long as you do not cheat, you will not have any problems. The only way to get banned by PBBans, or by Even Balance, is if you knowingly use a cheat.
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this is complete bull**** and there are thousands of people who have been wrongfully banned by administrators resulting in a pbban blacklist , its all over the internet , dont play stupid
 
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#186
SuperTaz said:
As long as you do not cheat, you will not have any problems. The only way to get banned by PBBans, or by Even Balance, is if you knowingly use a cheat.



And we do have permission from the developers as posted here:
[url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=754711&postcount=1[/URL]



Next time, read the news announcements before going overboard. :)
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good thank you for telling me , thank god you told me before the game shipped so i can inform tripwire of the terrible history your software has in the gaming industry.
 
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#189
i think the proof is pretty clear
Benway said:
Only if the recipient is a noob and will try to read the bannable information (GUID etc.) from the - in that case: photoshoped - PunkBuster-ScreenShot (PBSS). *see footnote


- PunkBuster-Server provides the security features. (sidenote: HW-IDs are a myth)
- Live-Streaming will ensure the validity of (PBSS and any) bans.

Lets take a look at a random PBSS Ban [url]http://www.pbbans.com/mbi-viewban-5fe95831-vb137481.html[/URL] ,
each screen is captioned with some header information ...

image1yoc.jpg

Code: 
PB Screenshot #1 (081d99c0.png)
MD5     6D879597F1CB03CDAE25B58D10357760
File Date       Jul 26, 2009 at 3:53:15 pm
... that was extracted from the submitted PBSS 081d99c0.png (File-Header information) itself, the MD5 hash is calculated directly from the PBSS File 081d99c0.png by the submission system.
So far the information taken from the submitted PBSS.

Follows "PBSS Log Data" block, this is information taken from streamed PunkBuster-Server logs.

The process behind this: Player's PunkBuster-Client takes a PBSS, submits it to PunkBuster-Server (the game-server), PB-Server generates a MD5sum Fingerprint (and logs the result) of the submitted PBSS and stores the PBSS in the local server database; all these actions are loged & streamed:
Code: 
[07.26.2009 15:53:15] ->PBSV: Screenshot 
   /svss/pb000848.png successfully received
   (MD5=6D879597F1CB03CDAE25B58D10357760)
   from 21 Hakim [6ab448e7785677c931e03a7c5fe95831(VALID)
   212.116.110.207:64468]
(a server log without streaming is nothing but a plain-text-file, i.e. no secure proof for validity)

Now the data extracted from the PBSS-Submission (Game, GUID, Server IP:port) and the MD5 hash calculated from the pic have to match the streamed log data from Server (IP:port).

In fact our submission-system will auto refuse a submission in case a matching MD5sum is not found in the streamed DataBase from this (IP:port) streaming Game-Server.

___
*footnote: experienced admins always take this information from pb-server logs.
more info: [url]http://www.pbbans.com/info-center-pbssguide.html#pbsstext[/URL]

Hackers with no clue about PB's build in security features used to create hacks that will obscure the PB-screenshot's information block (client-sided!) ... nevertheless we ban them :p
[url]http://www.pbbans.com/mbi-viewban-e4113dfb-vb107023.html[/URL] (usual format: Line #3: *32-GUID*)
... as the pb-server logs (server-sided) are always unaffected, and the tampered PBSS gives nice proof for the use of a PB-Hack.
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#190
Here I am in this thread again :D


While he puts it a bit more bluntly than I do, my concerns are the same as can be seen from my post on page 4 -

Quoting myself said:
I'm also curious about the legal ramifications of being banned incorrectly. If you pay for a game only to have some 3rd party render your game useless, incorrectly, I smell lawsuit. Is there legal language in the software agreement for HoS that states you might be falsely accused of cheating by a 3rd party and your game will then be rendered useless? Or does that sort of thing fall to the owner of the server; to make it known that your game might be incorrectly banned while playing on their server etc. etc.
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I'd still like some clarification, legal language-wise. It would also go a long way for someone like myself to hear EvenBalance and PBBans come out and say that in fact, yes, innocent people have in the past had their game rendered useless; not just kicked, but actually banned. The fact that you are guilty until proven innocent and the burden of proving yourself 'clean' to a third-party who is, from what I've read, quite zealous in it's duties as appointed gamer 'cop' is unsettling to say the least.

I whole-heartedly respect the effort being made. No one wants to have to deal with cheaters. People who cheat can quickly ruin the fun for everyone; it goes without saying. I just don't feel like this Punk Buster thing is waterproof in respect to clean players never being banned incorrectly. I've read way too much to the contrary. There's no way in my opinion that this thing is perfect in that respect. That's why I'm hoping TWI took the time to have this possibility written into their EULA.
 
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#194
REZ as far as i know all false positives are removed from the list
im sure it sucks to have it happen but it does happen ... not very often though .. like a 1 in 10,000 chance

key gens have been a problem in the past BUT with your GUID now linked to your steam account this should stop
unless your steam account was hacked aswell .. and thats getting harder to do these days .. even if you have the account name

This is what PB told me:
"This particular violation is a result of a violation that was previously registered on this GUID. What this means to you is that it appears that your GUID has been leaked and was detected using a particular hack by someone. Unfortunately, as such, this GUID will not be allowed on PB-enabled servers. You will need to obtain a new CDKey to generate a new GUID."
​
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#195
HellBilly said:
REZ as far as i know all false positives are removed from the list
im sure it sucks to have it happen but it does happen ... not very often though .. like a 1 in 10,000 chance

key gens have been a problem in the past BUT with your GUID now linked to your stem account this should stop
unless your steam account was hacked aswell .. and thats getting harder to do these days .. even if you have the account name


[/INDENT]
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ladies and gentlemen i rest my case , get rid of this garbage before the game ships

one unjustly banned person is enough , and im sure its enough for tripwire as they are a company who respects their customers and adheres to a quality control system that pbbans absolutely does not adhere to as has been proven thousands of times befor
 
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#196
guiltyspark said:
ladies and gentlemen i rest my case , get rid of this garbage before the game ships
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i guess u missed the part were i said
REZ as far as i know all false positives are removed from the list
im sure it sucks to have it happen but it does happen ... not very often though .. like a 1 in 10,000 chance
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false positives are gonna happen but the great thing is your not alone .. there will be other gamers that have this happen with you

and you'll all be removed from the list

what sucks is waiting a few days for the problem to be found
but the do find it and they do fix the lists
 
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#199
guiltyspark said:
i will have not signed any legal agreement from tripwire saying that my online play is being monitored and i can be blacklisted from many servers as a result.

what you are doing is a breach of the EULA and even lawsuit worthy.

A third party cannot under any curimstances alter a persons access to a product unless they were part of the legal contracts when making the game.
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They're not affecting your access to the product. As I understand it, you'll still be able to play RO:HOS on any server that isn't using PB, which is the server admin's choice.

If there are enough cheats out there that the use of PB becomes overwhelmingly attractive to server admins, you may be out of luck if you don't install PB. But then, you don't have a contract with the server admin's guaranteeing access to their servers, and their decision to require PB is up to them, and not an infringement on your agreement with Tripwire over purchasing the game.

If there are enough false positives out there, or hassles using the service, then admins won't bother with requiring PB, and you'll be fine.

You don't have to install PB, and the server admins don't have to let you play on their servers.

Make a choice about which one is more important to you.
 
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