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Nades......

Nades just buy you time anyways, so saving teammates/covering reloads is what you should be using them for. Trying to kill something with nades is foolish unless it's part of a speedkill.

Anywho, I assume you mean Hunting Shotgun blasts? On 6man HoE, it takes quite a few of those, especially since you don't need them to kill a FP apparently.

Even on 6man Hard, you'll get hurt from a Fleshpound with the HSG without nades.
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you on this. If you aim carefully and use jumpshots, you can make the hunting shotgun even more deadly.

Killing Floor - Two-shot-kill fleshpounds with Hunting Shotgun (6-man, HoE, Support Specialist) - YouTube

Killing Floor - One-shot-kill scrakes (6-man, HoE, Support Specialist) - YouTube

You have to be careful doing this though as if you mess up it can go quite wrong. The grenade combo is likely safer, but this can be used in a pinch if you round a corner and come face to face with one as it requires little space to maneuver. Also good if you're out of grenades.
 
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See, perfect! It was balanced to the point we don't want to use it anymore!

It is not even close to being balanced. It is both way too powerful and way too costly. But that's still much better than the state when the weapon was released. It's better that it's not used at all, than to remove any challenge from all games on higher difficulties.
 
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I think the current nades are fine as they are. As i posted previously i made a thread about additional class specific grenades, where the medic grenade idea actually came to fruition. But i see this would complicate things since people still like the average nade. I think having normal grenades for all classes but then a secondary "custom" grenade. But thats just me. Might make a mutator for this....if i knew how lol
 
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I don't think they can be balanced as they are, since you can throw them all out at once for a huge damage spike. If it took a couple of seconds to prime a grenade it'd be easier to give them substantial damage. At the moment they are balanced for situations where you throw several, making individual grenades weak and pointless.
 
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I don't think they can be balanced as they are, since you can throw them all out at once for a huge damage spike. If it took a couple of seconds to prime a grenade it'd be easier to give them substantial damage. At the moment they are balanced for situations where you throw several, making individual grenades weak and pointless.

Wise man! Good comment....should have had this statement in my initial post!!!
 
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Wise man! Good comment....should have had this statement in my initial post!!!

Thanks... :p it's always been my thought on grenades. How can you possibly make them useful individually if you have to balance them for several in quick succession?

If you ask me, grenades should be very powerful, but should be slow to deploy, and should be used sparingly. At the moment they are simply a boost in firepower, and aren't really used tactically.
 
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Sorry for the delay in getting back to you on this. If you aim carefully and use jumpshots, you can make the hunting shotgun even more deadly.

[...]

You have to be careful doing this though as if you mess up it can go quite wrong. The grenade combo is likely safer, but this can be used in a pinch if you round a corner and come face to face with one as it requires little space to maneuver. Also good if you're out of grenades.

On which platform (solo/listen/dedicated) are u doing those tricks? It seems like it's on a listen server which is no equivalent to dedicated servers.
 
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On which platform (solo/listen/dedicated) are u doing those tricks? It seems like it's on a listen server which is no equivalent to dedicated servers.

That's what I was thinking, since a single hunting shotgun blast to the body should not deal the damage equivalent of 5 +/- 1 [due to blast damage radius] nades (3 nades x 2 in HSG speedkill.) and a HSG blast to rage the fp in the beginning.
 
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It is not even close to being balanced. It is both way too powerful and way too costly. But that's still much better than the state when the weapon was released. It's better that it's not used at all, than to remove any challenge from all games on higher difficulties.

The thing is effective, however it requires not dying and being conservative. Then it isn't "OP" just very effective. It is so costly now, it is never used anyway so, complaining about a crazy expensive gun that gets little use due its expensive nature is rather silly.
 
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On which platform (solo/listen/dedicated) are u doing those tricks? It seems like it's on a listen server which is no equivalent to dedicated servers.
It was solo play on a testmap (KF-Testmap6p_FiringRangeV2). The enemies had 6 player HoE health due to the bots.

I wasn't aware that there was a difference in damage dealt based on solo, listen or dedicated. I'll investigate this though and report back what I find on each type. I'd hate people to try this themselves and find it only worked in solo.
 
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It was solo play on a testmap (KF-Testmap6p_FiringRangeV2). The enemies had 6 player HoE health due to the bots.

I wasn't aware that there was a difference in damage dealt based on solo, listen or dedicated. I'll investigate this though and report back what I find on each type. I'd hate people to try this themselves and find it only worked in solo.
Its more or less differences in hitbox locations due to lag and or the way servers handle stun | rage animations. Though I got to ask, how is the fleshpound one even possible on 6p HoE? I know the scrake one is possible given all pellets connect through the head and body, but the fleshpound one...I don't think thats how it works...they just have too much health, the HSG doesn't do enough damage and FP's have resistance to shotgun damage.
 
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Its more or less differences in hitbox locations due to lag and or the way servers handle stun | rage animations. Though I got to ask, how is the fleshpound one even possible on 6p HoE? I know the scrake one is possible given all pellets connect through the head and body, but the fleshpound one...I don't think thats how it works...they just have too much health, the HSG doesn't do enough damage and FP's have resistance to shotgun damage.
I've got no idea. I'm thinking it might be a glitch. There's no way that it should die so easily.

I've just done my testing and it actually only works on solo and listen server HoE with 6 players (myself and 5 faked players). Playing it on a dedicated server with 5 faked players I was unable to one shot scrakes and unable to two shot fleshpounds. It could be a lag issue as my ping was 0 on the other attempts whereas playing on my own dedicated server I had a ping of around 12.
 
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I've got no idea. I'm thinking it might be a glitch. There's no way that it should die so easily.

I've just done my testing and it actually only works on solo and listen server HoE with 6 players (myself and 5 faked players). Playing it on a dedicated server with 5 faked players I was unable to one shot scrakes and unable to two shot fleshpounds. It could be a lag issue as my ping was 0 on the other attempts whereas playing on my own dedicated server I had a ping of around 12.
If you're talking about the faked players mutator, then that is why it has been possible. The faked players mutator only increases the amount of zeds, not their health.
Jumpshotting scrakes IS possible on true 6P HoE, but every pellet has to connect perfectly. Its much safer to just soften them up prior to their rage threshold.
 
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If you're talking about the faked players mutator, then that is why it has been possible. The faked players mutator only increases the amount of zeds, not their health.
Jumpshotting scrakes IS possible on true 6P HoE, but every pellet has to connect perfectly. Its much safer to just soften them up prior to their rage threshold.
It's not the faked players mutator, sorry about the confusion. It's one of the test maps where there are 5 bots present. The health of the enemies actually is increased as the map I use shows the health of the Zeds when you attack them.
 
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It isn't that the current grenades are lacking in lethality.

Rather, I'd offer that the vanilla game's specimens are generally able to minimize the grenade's apparent effect by scattering away. As a result, I would say at least some of the desire to buff the grenades is stemming from that. In a player's early stages in Beginner difficulty, where the specimen's hitpoints are trivial, and they may as well be on crutches in terms of movement, this zed characteristic is scarcely noticed. By the time a player graduates to Hard difficulty, where the specimens are more robust and their pace is markedly more quick, the perceived usefulness of the grenades seems to diminish. So, to offset this specimen behaviour, it follows that something with more punch, and/or a larger blast radius would be desirable; a perfectly understandable reaction.

The better alternatives would be to either adopt the "cooked" grenade mechanic of poosh's excellent ScrnBalance mutator into the game, or, simply end the specimen's grenade phobia. (Doing both wouldn't hurt. I think...)

I fully realize that some players have leveraged the game's zed grenade avoidance mechanic into an artful part of their personal repertoire, using grenades to momentarilly delay and misdirect the specimen's advance. However, I suppose I look upon grenades first and foremost as weapons. (You know, as in, "Die! Die! Die!") As they are now, their performance, as weapons, isn't what I would describe as being very reliable. True, if you use them within the relatively narrow confines of KF-BioticsLab, they're not all that bad. In a more roomy environment, or outdoors? Not so good. And, it isn't that the grenade is weak. It is because it is the only player weapon that the specimens seem to fear.

Consider: I guess the next-closest thing in the game to grenades would be pipebombs. If the specimens demonstrated the same behaviour towards pipes, (that is, avoidance), as they do towards grenades, there would be a ton of unexploded ordnance lying around on many maps. Not to mention, a number of routes of travel the zeds would steadfastly avoid. That would be a pretty boring game, no doubt.

Aside from the smoke issue, I'd always imagined that it would be good, (or, at least interesting), if a Demo could just grab a handgun or two, and, say, two dozen grenades. (If the perk permitted such a thing.) Simply forget the launchers, rockets and pipes, and work through several waves being, in essence, an old-skool grenadier. With the specimen's current "Bust a move everyone! Incoming frag!" behaviour, this probably wouldn't be a viable way for a Demo to earn a living.
 
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[...]

The better alternatives would be to either adopt the "cooked" grenade mechanic of poosh's excellent ScrnBalance mutator into the game, or, simply end the specimen's grenade phobia. (Doing both wouldn't hurt. I think...)

[...]
I am one of those players who use nades sometimes to give teammates time to breath (reload, healings, etc.) by avoiding the advance of those zeds.
Imo, it is a great feature that should be kept. "Retarding" the zeds is not wise as they are stupid enough in the current state. :p
But, I think there is a way to keep everything as is and increasing the effectiveness of handgreandes by giving players the chance to time them (pulling pin and releasing trigger). It's also a feature that brings along the need of some skill and practise which I'd love to see ingame. :)
 
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