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More historical loadouts for Realism mode

More historical loadouts for Realism mode

  • Yes

    Votes: 658 95.1%
  • No

    Votes: 34 4.9%

  • Total voters
    692
Be careful what you wish for.

While bolt-action rifles were more prevalent than automatic weapons, rifles were not the weapon of choice for storming bunkers, buildings, or strong points.

As far as I know, the Germans would organize squads armed with automatic weapons, a lot of grenades, and possibly flamethrowers to clear buildings.

While having riflemen as support makes sense for maps such as Redoctoberfactory and Spartanovka, Apartments and Pavlov's house would almost certainly be assaulted by soldiers armed mostly with automatic weapons.

I assume the Red Army would operate in much the same fashion, preferring sub-machine guns and grenades for clearing buildings.


Dude it can vary from map to map.

Remember the original Red Orchestra? The Soviet side had several maps where 90% of the soldiers were armed with PPSHs, precisely for the reasons you mention.

There's no reason at all why it can't work differently in HoS.
 
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Dude it can vary from map to map.

Remember the original Red Orchestra? The Soviet side had several maps where 90% of the soldiers were armed with PPSHs, precisely for the reasons you mention.

There's no reason at all why it can't work differently in HoS.

That's my point exactly. The op seems to want to reduce the number of non-bolt-action rifles on every map, under the guise of historical accuracy, even though it's doubtful that this would be historically accurate in every case.

would it not be possible for TWI to make a concession, and add onto the Full Realism mode with a more historical loadout?
That would mean less semi and fully automatic weapons, MKB and AVT available ONLY for Heroes, and with a bigger focus on the trusty bolt action rifle?
 
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I'd rather have the game as it was represented before I paid for it, rather than being thrown a "mode" as a half-assed scrap and hunt for populated servers or, worse yet, have overcrowded ones you can't get into. Any time you get into the after-thought, begrudging concession business, it's always inferior. No thanks.
 
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I liked the way it was done in RO where it depended on the map. For example on some maps the Russians have nothing but PPSHs and the Germans have their usual loadout, and it wasn't IMBALANCED, the map design balances it out just fine (if the Germans let the Russians get in close enough they're going to get slaughtered).

In particular I'm thinking of that great Stalingrad map and the one that took place mostly in a trench system (started with an L?). Also I think Leningrad was like that.

And my favorite map of all time was the one where the Germans were defending in Courland. It was winter, they're dug into their foxholes, Russian arty is coming down at random, and up ahead out of nowhere the "horde" materializes in the blizzard and the entire battle depends on whether or not the Germans can keep their MG42s in action because the Mausers frankly just didn't have the firepower to keep them back. If the Russians get in close enough to work you over with their PPSHs that's all she wrote. What was the map name? Karelia? I think that was it. THAT was the Red Orchestra gaming I fell in love with.
 
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Yep bring back more weapon sway, exaggerate the breathing dynamics again, it way to easy to hit a target 100m away after completing a half marathon ...

The strategy is all gone with there is almost no advantage to have your rifle rested in cover.... its 100% reflexes ... rush and out meat grind the cap is the only tactic i see now.

I have an attention span longer than 30 seconds am i such a minority now that you can't cater for me profitably?
 
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This is a great idea and although it seems obvious ,and has been posted about before, myself incuded I dont see why this was not done from the start. The game should be based around the realism mode and should be like a tweaked version of RO1. This, should be the core of the game with the relaxed mode for those wanting to play something less difficult and with a shorter round time for a quick blast or practise as it were.

I feel the devs want to draw as many players to the game as possible which is fair enough but not to the detriment of all the long time RO fans who have supported them since 2003. They could easily cater for both the realism nuts and the casual gamers in this way and I for one would like to see the game head in this direction.

There are loads of DoD and CoD type of games out there but only one game like RO and the devs should stick to their core values of realism while still catering for the casual gamer who is not bothered about historical acuraccy and sway etc.
Ta

Sal
 
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I actually wouldnt mind loadouts varying between maps, i actually liked that in RO1 too. (thinking of Lyes Krovy though, that map would have been THAT much awesomer if everybody would have had a bolt action rifle. Just think of the bayonet fights we would have had!:))
But if there is a default loadout for a map, it just shouldnt be like it is right now.
Fact is that there were many more rifles available compared to semi and automatic weapons, and that is how it should be in RO2 as well.
That said, i wouldnt mind a scenario resembling that in Lyes Krovy once in a while either.
 
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I'm firmly in the "make weapon loadouts depend on the setting of the map" camp. Balance should be achieved through map design, including reinforcement numbers. Part of this is that weapons shouldn't be "mirrored". Just because one side has a certain type of weapon doesn't mean the other side should. I'm no historian, but I suspect that in a Stalingrad setting, the following would be true:
-Bolt action rifles as the work horse
-A fairly low proportion of semi-auto rifles. SVT-40 production had been down-prioritized in favour of the cheaper, more reliable and easier to use Mosin-Nagants. I don't know about the exact numbers of G41s, but I don't think they were produced in very large numbers.
-Higher proportions of SMGs and grenades than overall for the time, given the urban setting. Perhaps the default weapon on "small scale assault" type maps.
-Very few German hand-held anti armour weapons. Some Hafthohlladung mines (attached, not thrown). How many Soviet anti-tank rifles were captured and used by the Germans I have no idea.
-A problem with this is the lack of AT guns in HoS. I don't know if they could be included somehow, but I guess that's beyond the scope of this topic. (If I were to fantasize, I think it could be interesting if the defending team commander could choose setup points for AT guns at the start of the round, so that the attackers don't know without scouting where to expect them.)
-More "exotic" weapons like the MKb42 in extremely small numbers. Was the AVT even in production in January 1943?
-All in all this makes for a farily small pool of weapons to choose from, but I see this as a sacrifice to be made when deciding to focus on Stalingrad as a setting. I suspect we'll see a wider range of settings as time progresses, from community maps if nothing else. Maybe even panzerschrecks and lend-lease bazookas for the later stages of the war? Personally I really liked how Darkest Hour treated these weapons.

Of course, as always, realism is a fickle term. We do still want a fun game, which you hardly get by making it 100% realistic (as someone said somewhere, we don't want the game to delete itself if you die). Training and morale is pretty much impossible to simulate, I guess. Personally, I'm one of the people that feel RO1 managed this balance between realism and gaming better than anything else I've played.

As an aside, Anjelous, I believe you're talking about Lyes Krovy (Soviet trench assault with mostly SMGs) and Kurland Kessel (Karelia is the border area between Finland and Russia north of Leningrad, there was one user-made map I know of for RO 1, set during the Winter War).
 
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I liked the way it was done in RO where it depended on the map. For example on some maps the Russians have nothing but PPSHs and the Germans have their usual loadout, and it wasn't IMBALANCED, the map design balances it out just fine (if the Germans let the Russians get in close enough they're going to get slaughtered).

In particular I'm thinking of that great Stalingrad map and the one that took place mostly in a trench system (started with an L?). Also I think Leningrad was like that.

And my favorite map of all time was the one where the Germans were defending in Courland. It was winter, they're dug into their foxholes, Russian arty is coming down at random, and up ahead out of nowhere the "horde" materializes in the blizzard and the entire battle depends on whether or not the Germans can keep their MG42s in action because the Mausers frankly just didn't have the firepower to keep them back. If the Russians get in close enough to work you over with their PPSHs that's all she wrote. What was the map name? Karelia? I think that was it. THAT was the Red Orchestra gaming I fell in love with.

Cant think of the Stalingrad map... but the other was Lyes Krovy. Great maps.

The winter map was called Snowy Forest at first but I suggested Kurlandkessel to make it fit in with the map names at the time and the mapper changed it.
Ta

Sal
 
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Wow. A landslide result by anyone's benchmark.

It's a wise move to add in a Full Realism mode (you know, the mode that everyone thought Realism mode was going to be) because the game can then be configured to run the game that clearly the vast majority of the forum membership wanted in the first place, yet it doesn't remove any of the comedy run-and-gun noobishness that currently dominates many, many games. Trebles all round. Everyone wins. Hurrah! Make it so.
 
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