MG recoil - TW Please read

[DesiQ]

As I said in my previous comment, having little or no muzzle rise during deployed and sighted fire would do a lot to make deploying an MG a lot more attractive than it is now.

I also think that you should be able to fire a deployed MG from cover (like how you can duck behind a tripod-mounted HMG), but that the weapon should spread and recoil a fair bit, since you're not stabilising it.

And being able to deploy/remove an MG without exposing yourself like you currently do is a must.

 

[Jippofin]

+1 Spot on.

So you really can not see how absolutely inaccurate he is with the gun in the video? Do I really need to draw more lines on pictures? Or is even that futile?

And why he has no muzzle rise?

Bipod mounted machineguns are not easy to control. They will change their point of impact after first shot and on all consequent shots. Bipods are on a swivel and when the gun recoils rearward the barrel will go either up or down. If the bipod legs are tilted towards front (or are indeed up-right), the barrel will drop - if they are tilted towards rear barrel will rise. If the shooters shoulder will move the barrel will tilt more. Shooters shoulder will move in recoil. If the shooter doesn't know how to take the recoil into his body the barrel will also turn sideways causing the rounds to miss from either side, usually opposite side of the trigger finger. And all this happens in perfect conditions on the firing range. Remember that a movement less than the width of your finger is enough to cause one meter miss. You can't see that on a Youtube video....

Do you really want to bring this level of realism into the game? That the gun will run away in any given direction depending how you deploy and where (just like in real world(tm)), or shall we go with the easy "always up" gaming solution which makes our lives unrealistically easy now?

 

[Sight]

Jippo i know what you mean,you are describing it well but it is not about realism.

The MG'class and especially the MG34 suffers from strong jumping recoil.Sustained fire, even 5 to 10 shots is not possible as the gun starts to jump up and down heavily.It feels like shooting a MG and riding a horse at the same time Especially on lover levels.

I would love to have the recoil direction chaning depending on where one is aiming instead of the jumping recoil.

Leveling up a weapon completely changes it, yet the player does not have to do anything for it except playing.There is no skill to master, it s just putting playing hours in and then the jumping recoil gets reduced.

My suggestion: remove the jumping recoil.Replace it with a steady and even recoil and heavily decrease recoil reduction through leveling

 

[Jippofin]

There seems to be skill involved in using MG-class. Many people enjoy it just because of that, it isn't too easy.

I am one of those people, it is the class I like to play most and I would hate it being changed. It is a near perfect simulation of LMG in a shooter (sans the deployment problems / hipfire running&gunning) and it requires a skillset to use just like the real ones. Recoil isn't that bad since you are supposed to fire 1-3 shots per trigger pull to remain accurate and effective like in game. Sustained fire is pulling the trigger every 2-3 seconds (firing sounds like: brt-brt-brt-brt), not holding it pressed until the belt runs out (that is "I shat my pants because I think I am going to die" -fire.) Here is an example of how you should do sustained fire with an MG:

Finnish machine gun kvkk - YouTube

This works in game as well. You are supposed to use skill with trigger to manage recoil in game and in RL. Many soldiers posess these skills and so they enjoy the MG a lot and are happy to find a MG-slot open in-game.

 

[DesiQ]

You are supposed to use skill with trigger to manage recoil in game and in RL. Many soldiers posess these skills and so they enjoy the MG a lot and are happy to find a MG-slot open in-game.

Primary difference between the game and real life: in real life the weapon returns to its original position after you stop firing (or it should if you're handling it properly). In the game you need to reset it constantly.

So while pulsing the trigger works quite well in real life since the gun should return somewhere close to its original aimpoint after firing, it works less well in games because this doesn't happen.

 

[Jippofin]

It works for me just fine.

 

[DiedTrying]

It works for me just fine.

So in game, hypothetically speaking, if you fired 20+ rounds all in one long burst and didn't move your mouse afterwards, your sights will return back to level on their own?

I'm pretty sure that's not in the game.

Let's say I'm deployed while in game. I'm watching a doorway 60 meters away. If I fire a couple bursts, my sights will eventually raise above the doorway. I have to move my mouse to get the sights back onto the doorway. If I didn't do this, I would be aiming above the entire house.

 

[Jippofin]

So while pulsing the trigger works quite well in real life since the gun should return somewhere close to its original aimpoint after firing, it works less well in games because this doesn't happen.

------->

Works for me just fine.​

I fire couple of shots, my aim is near the original point of aim. I can correct it easily within one second, nevermind three seconds. I can fire the MG in game just as I would in real life:

Recoil isn't that bad since you are supposed to fire 1-3 shots per trigger pull to remain accurate and effective like in game. Sustained fire is pulling the trigger every 2-3 seconds.

The barrel going only up makes things easier, not harder, because I know into which direction to correct even before shooting, which is always not the case in real life.

 

[Stahlgeist]

I find the recoil with deployed machine guns in game quite manageable. It doesn't feel particularly off to me.

This, however:

Red Orchestra 2 Heroes of Stalingrad MG-34 gameplay - YouTube

I've been on the receiving end of this by a German carrying a DP-28 on Apartments. He ran around hip firing it and scoring numerous other kills with ease, and then set up the machine gun on the bridge rail overlooking that Soviet spawn behind the wall. Needless to say, he had no problems with recoil as he mowed down everyone who spawned back in.

Hip firing the machine gun should be one of those last ditch efforts for protecting yourself at close range with little time to spare. You certainly shouldn't be able to run like that and fire with so much accuracy, and yet I continuously see machine gunners doing it as effortlessly as assault troopers.

I'm certainly glad to see videos highlighting a lot of problems with the game springing up and being posted here on the forums, though. That should silence those people who bluntly deny they exist and who shout others down for daring to criticize a game they spent their money on.

 

[Eisprinzessin]

The Video is a real bad thing. I dont know how TWI could make such sh**.

I think, firing the MG like in RO1 is the much better way. Unaccurate, only possible after pressing RMB and slows you donw to turtle speed.

If i wanna run, i have to switch to pistol.

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

So you really can not see how absolutely inaccurate he is with the gun in the video? Do I really need to draw more lines on pictures? Or is even that futile?

And why he has no muzzle rise?

Having fired some MGs a couple of times myself, I can tell you that after the initial burst you will have weapon under good control, and there really is very little muzzle climb, the recoil being very direct; and it isn't hard to then point the gun around.

mg-42 machine gun - YouTube

MG-42 light machinegun practice - YouTube

 

[Jippofin]

And it isn't exactly hard in the game either, so what is the point?

 

[Eisprinzessin]

I want the dust, flying in the air in the impact area.

 

[Eisprinzessin]

I want the Zwisola

ZWISOLA - Flugabwehr - YouTube

 

[Erich]

Soldiers who have shot MG say they are realistic with recoil.

Gamers say they are not.

Which one to believe.


BTW. On the posted you tube videos, first one shows nicely how TRIPOD mounted MG jumps up. Second video show DP-28 wildly twisting up under recoil with no hope of hitting a mansized target at 100m. This is your proof?

Yeah, no. Many soldiers, myself included agree that the deployed recoil is nothing like it is in real life. RO2's mg recoil is greatly exaggerated.

 

[Vesper11]

Compared MG34 recoil to well-positioned stationary MG34 recoil (p.s. it has no recoil)... Its hard to describe - anyone who tried to run past even at 150m got mowed down instanty, I didnt have to fight recoil or try single shots as if I had semi-auto rifle, I simply pressed button, moved gun a bit and the guy died, its THAT effective. This is what all machine guns should look like (though with some recoil), not to be semi-auto rifles with stupid full-auto mode.

 

[Jippofin]

Yeah, no. Many soldiers, myself included agree that the deployed recoil is nothing like it is in real life. RO2's mg recoil is greatly exaggerated.

Ok, fine let's have a test.

Go to Spartanovka church. There is an opening in the wall on in the middle of the wall facing the city hall. Go prone in that opening and fire using the round centerpiece of the copper colored relief on top of the secondary entrance of the city hall (right next to the main entrance on the left side). I can keep my shots 95% on the area between the center piece and top of the copper arc. That is about what I can do in the real life (less than torso size). Alternatively I can empty a drum mag in emergency fire (continuos automatic fire) and keep the sights on the small chimneys on either side of the dome (about man size?) (I'm a level 9 [not good] MG-gunner with the MG34, so managing recoil will become even easier with added in game levels.)


Is the problem that people can't shoot in game, or that I am just a lousy shot in real life. How much better grouping should I be achieving? What gives?

 

[MarioBava]

If you don't do a good job of controlling the recoil on a bipod-mounted MG, it will rise because of the physics of a bipod allowing only so much give before backwards force is constrained to a pivot. It's shown in the video of the furtive-looking guy in Tennessee with the DP28 who doesn't have the most stable position in the world, and it's shown even more dramatically in this video where the gun is tilting about as dramatically as in the game:
http://youtu.be/RHwMan3-mTE

The barrel will tend to rise because it's on a pivot that will constrain the force of a recoil.

A trained soldier with a stable position won't have that effect, you say?

Yes, ok.

But why not just realize that that is best simulated in the game by applying the quite easy technique of giving your mouse a tiny backward drag as you fire the gun? It works, and it's easy.

So I don't think they need to change the recoil in the game...what you need to do as a player is control the recoil like a trained soldier.

 

[Spindle]

Soldiers who have shot MG say they are realistic with recoil.

Lol, you're sucking that out of your thumb

 

[hishnik]

...clipped...
I've been on the receiving end of this by a German carrying a DP-28 on Apartments. He ran around hip firing it and scoring numerous other kills with ease, and then set up the machine gun on the bridge rail overlooking that Soviet spawn behind the wall. Needless to say, he had no problems with recoil as he mowed down everyone who spawned back in.
...clipped...

German carrying a DP28 for hipfire purpose? Are you sure? Because that sure sounds a bit off... DP is terrible for hipfire (and normal fire its not so fun for either)