I haven't seen this being that big of an issue for the DP-28, so maybe it's just the MG-34 that needs work.
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MG ramboing
- Thread starter Gudenrath
- Start date
This exactly. One of my most memorable moments in Ostfront took place like this. I was playing as an Axis assault trooper on Odessa, defending the Apartments. I killed so many Russians streaming through the doors that I ran out of ammunition. The objective had fallen, I was cut off with nowhere to go. My last burst killed a Russian machine gunner. Smoke was billowing everwhere from a smoke grenade. I dashed into the middle of the room, picked up the DP28, hoisted it to my waist, and went down in a blaze of glory, taking two more Russians with me.
I remember that moment because it was unique. In RO2, these things are just a daily occurence.
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+1 .... as if the thread needed any more support. It should return the Osty way of requiring you to hit the IS button to bring it to hip firing position; hip firing position should be inaccurate and useful only as a last resort; bringing the gun into hip fire position should take (at least 1.5 or 2x) longer than bringing any of the lighter weapons from hip to iron sight. People have been saying this since beta. I really believe that 99% of the community would be ecstatic to see such changes introduced.
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I think the main reason that MGers end up ramboing is because MGs are so weak when they're used "properly".
If you try to fire an MG from a prone or entrenched position you get shot almost immediately because it's so easy for riflemen to hit you. Ramboing means you live longer and you get more kills.
I think a good solution would be to change the "set up" position of MGers so that they're lower, currently it's too difficult to get setup without getting shot immediately. Also, lower MG recoil so that they're more dangerous.
If you try to fire an MG from a prone or entrenched position you get shot almost immediately because it's so easy for riflemen to hit you. Ramboing means you live longer and you get more kills.
I think a good solution would be to change the "set up" position of MGers so that they're lower, currently it's too difficult to get setup without getting shot immediately. Also, lower MG recoil so that they're more dangerous.
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I don't really have this problem much, I tend to fire in bursts and duck alot.
However I admit I won't take the mg class on small maps because the engagement ranges are short and not suited for the mg class. Those maps you are just begging to be shot. Larger maps with long range opportunities are more suited for the mg class. On Barashka for example or some of the custom maps, the mg can be quite devastating with little risk to the user. I have actually seen players start to sprint in one direction and I fire at them and they turn around for cover. It actually can create its own suppression that way.
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You're not wrong, but this does neatly illustrate the fundamental issues with the game mechanics.
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I disagree. I see many, many people racking dozens and dozens of kills as MGers using it "properly". Deployed MGs are not underpowered at all, even with the ghosting issue fixed.
Still, I agree with the OP, this new change to MG hipfire barely changed anything. I still think MG's should always be carried in a resting position, with the player having to click RMB to put it in a ready position in order to be able to fire, just like in RO1, with the player slowing down significantly.
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I'm for this.
While I agree that the mg's are powerful enough when used as intended, I think they should be able to be deployed in more locations. On some maps you feel like you're limited to setting up in windows (=death), on top of a wall or sandbags (=death) or out in the open (=death) and people have by now learned where the likely spots are on each map to look for you. So you crawl around, trying areas over and over looking for that little patch where it'll deploy. Which looks no different than the patch 1m over where you couldn't.
I can't tell you how many times I've been struggling to deploy while the enemy lines up and shoots me.
While I agree that the mg's are powerful enough when used as intended, I think they should be able to be deployed in more locations. On some maps you feel like you're limited to setting up in windows (=death), on top of a wall or sandbags (=death) or out in the open (=death) and people have by now learned where the likely spots are on each map to look for you. So you crawl around, trying areas over and over looking for that little patch where it'll deploy. Which looks no different than the patch 1m over where you couldn't.
I can't tell you how many times I've been struggling to deploy while the enemy lines up and shoots me.
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I use the MG "properly" and I ususally wrap up 60-120 kills in 2 rounds on most maps on Classic with both Russian and German MG. In Realism with the belt-fed MG34 I can even do more. There are some guys who are surely better than me but the solutions that you are presenting would make me for instance godlike on the battlefield and we already had the lower setup before the last patch and it was like a cheat. There was a detailed thred about it. I only Rambo if I need to and wouldn't min toning it down.
The machine gunner could see the enemy but not vice versa before the fix. Recoil in my opinion is fine too but it needs practice.
And if you get shot while deploying you chose the wrong spot and time.
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Been saying this for months -- well, the bit about using MGs "properly." Classic helps things a bit in this regard, though not a ton.
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I seriously dont see the issue with the current MG hipfireing.
this descussion has poped up again and again.
as of now atlest I dont see people running aorund shooting with MG on hip anymore, they more walk around and sit down in corners at maps such as Apartments. And I say that is realism. You can do that real life, so its only proper you can do it ingame.
1. you can do it RL,
2. there is lots of footage of soliders doing it during ww2.
3. There is many videos of people shooting rather accurate at targets with mgs on their hip.
4 .there is even descriptions from german coursebooks about how you are supposed to rig up your MG34 for hipshooting useing the sling.
I can agree the accuracy is a bit nuts over long range when hipshooting but thats just a fact that comes from a gun shooting where you point it.. instead of those silly cones of fire we saw in RO1.
As of the "ironshight" to fire is a problem in my eyes.
All weapons except the AT rifle can shoot without raising your rifle. Why should the game restrict me from actually pulling the trigger when I carry a Mg in my hands, that was something that pissed me off in RO1 atles. The fact that a simple game restriction stops me from just squeezing the trigger and sending a hail of bullets into that enemy that just ran into me. No, i dont like this rightclick to be able to shoot thingie. U
the hipshooting people complain about happens in close enviorments. Its realistic to be able to favor useing a huge machinegun over a little p38.
Its fine the way it is....
this descussion has poped up again and again.
as of now atlest I dont see people running aorund shooting with MG on hip anymore, they more walk around and sit down in corners at maps such as Apartments. And I say that is realism. You can do that real life, so its only proper you can do it ingame.
1. you can do it RL,
2. there is lots of footage of soliders doing it during ww2.
3. There is many videos of people shooting rather accurate at targets with mgs on their hip.
4 .there is even descriptions from german coursebooks about how you are supposed to rig up your MG34 for hipshooting useing the sling.
I can agree the accuracy is a bit nuts over long range when hipshooting but thats just a fact that comes from a gun shooting where you point it.. instead of those silly cones of fire we saw in RO1.
As of the "ironshight" to fire is a problem in my eyes.
All weapons except the AT rifle can shoot without raising your rifle. Why should the game restrict me from actually pulling the trigger when I carry a Mg in my hands, that was something that pissed me off in RO1 atles. The fact that a simple game restriction stops me from just squeezing the trigger and sending a hail of bullets into that enemy that just ran into me. No, i dont like this rightclick to be able to shoot thingie. U
the hipshooting people complain about happens in close enviorments. Its realistic to be able to favor useing a huge machinegun over a little p38.
Its fine the way it is....
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Expoilt?
if i play as MG gunner, and im in a house.. I hear some enemy sneak up the stairs beneath me, ofc I turn and point the MG on the door and gun him down.
If there is more, I walk down and blast them away through thin walls and mop them up.
What.. what? Have you ever held a MG on your hip?
if i play as MG gunner, and im in a house.. I hear some enemy sneak up the stairs beneath me, ofc I turn and point the MG on the door and gun him down.
If there is more, I walk down and blast them away through thin walls and mop them up.
What.. what? Have you ever held a MG on your hip?
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It's only possible to do that (walk around with a 4', 27lb weapon like it ain't no thing) because the game barely models the effect of inertia on your avatar's ability to move weapons. Basically it has as much heft as an smg.
Your usage case of the doorway is fine, really, but I would draw the line at a player comfortably leading the charge at Mamayev Kurgan (frequently) or Apartments.
Your usage case of the doorway is fine, really, but I would draw the line at a player comfortably leading the charge at Mamayev Kurgan (frequently) or Apartments.
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Chances are, if you got caught off guard IRL while transitioning between positions as a machine gunner, you'd be dead. Why? Because you probably weren't expecting to encounter the enemy, and consequently got killed as you tried to heft your weapon into a firing stance.
And let's say you were a particularly cunning person and heard the enemy sneaking up on you. You probably survived. Why? Because you readied yourself and lifted up your weapon, pointing it in the direction of the enemy.
That's what's absent from RO2. The need to add player input.
Instead, the game lets you hold the weapon like that all the time, meaning that all you have to do when you get caught in a terrible situation because of your own tactical ineptitude is press the left mouse button to unleash a firestorm of lead.
Quite frankly, not having to push a button to enter a hipfire stance is almost as bad as programming a system where your character automatically switches to your primary weapon when you're attacked while using a pair of binoculars. If you get caught by surprise, you should be penalized for it. That's how it works.
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It's just a button press, that's all. Judging by your example of hipfire, you have enough situational awareness to ensure that, if you find yourself in a tricky situation, you should have more than enough time to hit the panic button and ready up to hipfire.
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My old army Sarge went "Rambo" on the target range and in the woods with the MG 42
He was chopping down targets at a distance of 50m with ease, just point and fire.
Its simply a matter of hand to eye coordination, just like tennis
That to me was proof that you can move around with the MG while lying down suppressive fire and be deadly accurate too.
I think Tripwire's simulation of the MG gunner is great but that's not to say what goes on in the game is like the real thing.
Personally I think its fun being on either side of the MG barrel.
It really scares the crap out of me when Rambo enters the building, I know I'm not safe behind the wall.
Its awesome and I love it like it is.
He was chopping down targets at a distance of 50m with ease, just point and fire.
Its simply a matter of hand to eye coordination, just like tennis
That to me was proof that you can move around with the MG while lying down suppressive fire and be deadly accurate too.
I think Tripwire's simulation of the MG gunner is great but that's not to say what goes on in the game is like the real thing.
Personally I think its fun being on either side of the MG barrel.
It really scares the crap out of me when Rambo enters the building, I know I'm not safe behind the wall.
Its awesome and I love it like it is.
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