Beta Map [MAP] Bridges of Druzhina Beta5
- Thread starter 11_HARLEY_11
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I think with this destructible barriers on the streets and bridges, it would be a new teamplay experience!
Also the thought with the "pick up weapons"(e.g. AT grenades) would be a nice feature, which makes the allied tank less powerful!
Also the thought with the "pick up weapons"(e.g. AT grenades) would be a nice feature, which makes the allied tank less powerful!
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I like the tank trap idea, especially since it's quite realistic (it's what engineers do: clear the road for others, either by blowing stuff up, or by building the road where there isn't one).
I sort of resent the whole idea of Engineers' being AT-focused, removing obstacles is implementable and more
realistic.
Also, I love the tank on the Soviet side: it is the only CA map I've played, in which there is a lot ot interaction and mutual support between the tank and infantry. In all of the original CA maps (Red October being a marginal exception) cans go one way, meat goes the other.
Assymetry only makes this map unique, as Germans can't rely on tanks to destroy enemy tanks and they have to make use of whatever AT weapons they have, and realistic: Germans are on the defensive, it's not a meeting engagement, there are no counterattacks, and it's perfectly normal for tanks and even AT guns not to be there, so the defending infantry must use the weaponry that is available on the company level. It's a perfectly plausible scenario.
If the Russian tank is to stay...... add a German tank for the Russian Engineers to occupy themselves with.
Then..... the map will have gone full circle. From being a AAA Class1 Infantry Map to another run of the mill Combined Arms map. I'll never forget the fantastic Infantry combat we enjoyed in the first version of this map.
I sort of resent the whole idea of Engineers' being AT-focused, removing obstacles is implementable and more
realistic.
Also, I love the tank on the Soviet side: it is the only CA map I've played, in which there is a lot ot interaction and mutual support between the tank and infantry. In all of the original CA maps (Red October being a marginal exception) cans go one way, meat goes the other.
Assymetry only makes this map unique, as Germans can't rely on tanks to destroy enemy tanks and they have to make use of whatever AT weapons they have, and realistic: Germans are on the defensive, it's not a meeting engagement, there are no counterattacks, and it's perfectly normal for tanks and even AT guns not to be there, so the defending infantry must use the weaponry that is available on the company level. It's a perfectly plausible scenario.
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The last spawn for the germans need so adjusting. They have problems getting safely out, allied mgs can target spawn. It feels like the germans only fate is to get hogged down in the spawn. Not very fun.
So making more spawn exits and/or a addisional spawn point would be good. Slightly modify the terrain with more holes and ditches at the german side of the bridge. They got it pretty flat. Yes there already is some cover, as it is not completely flat, but some more would be better. Maybe add some destoryed vehicles, some said a bunker but that overboard imo.
The astetihc part of the last objektive of the german side looks odd. it looks like the BIG bridge is made to make a road to go into a few buldings. Maybe add blocked road there or make a road there.
This is the only part of the map that feels uncomplete imo. The last bridge fight always is a bit wierd.
PS: I maybe wrong at some stuff about your layout of your map, sorry I am very sleepy and my SDK loads too slooooow for more to check right now.
So making more spawn exits and/or a addisional spawn point would be good. Slightly modify the terrain with more holes and ditches at the german side of the bridge. They got it pretty flat. Yes there already is some cover, as it is not completely flat, but some more would be better. Maybe add some destoryed vehicles, some said a bunker but that overboard imo.
The astetihc part of the last objektive of the german side looks odd. it looks like the BIG bridge is made to make a road to go into a few buldings. Maybe add blocked road there or make a road there.
This is the only part of the map that feels uncomplete imo. The last bridge fight always is a bit wierd.
PS: I maybe wrong at some stuff about your layout of your map, sorry I am very sleepy and my SDK loads too slooooow for more to check right now.
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I disagree. It's a great map to have tanks, but only if the defenders have less tanks than the attackers or none. If there was one tank for each team, as soon as the Russian tank is destroyed, the entire Russian team would be also be destroyed constantly until the Russian tank respawned and managed to kill the Panzer. The Germans, though, won't necessarly be slaughtered that easily if their tank gets destroyed.
Tanking on defence is much easier, especially when the map is large and open like this one. A tank for the Germans would only work if it didn't have enough time to target enemy infantry, only enemy tanks. That's why for me it's either 2 T-34s vs 1 PzIV or 1 T-34 vs 0 PzIV. Just give the Russian tank more obstacles, like tank traps, make it unable to cross the river through the water and it's fine.
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While I do not know the map well, it is very fun. I enjoyed playing a round or two in it today and was very pleased. Excellent diversity in both terrain and combat. Nice work!
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Great idea!
I would also recommend moving the last german spawns a bit since I seem to recall being able to see them spawn from the russian side of the river across that mound they're "protected" by, so you should check out those angles.
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Disagree all you wish. That's your right and privilege. Whether or not you are correct is another matter. The tank addition IMHO, to this map sucks.
WHAT do you think is happening now to the German teams?? A walk in the park? The Germans get steamrolled 90% of the time.
Tanks should NOT be in this map. The ultra high quality of infantry combat is diluted to a point of frustration and finally, boredom.
NOBODY likes the "spawn/die - spawn/die - spawn/die" routine. That tank, simply put, ruins the full playability and repeat playability of this map. The Germans have little with which to defend against the tank.... the ARTY barrages are 6 minutes apart and the Tank respawns immediately. The PTRS is a joke - a hapless inaccurate joke and to get teamwork going so the SL's smoke the tank and the Engineers destroy it is a monumental task. The tank is a massive distraction from the real joy of infantry combat.
It WAS a great, highly immersive infantry combat map. Maybe, when they are ready... a few APC's for each side but nothing more.
I'm to a point that when it comes up - I discover I have something IRL to do....
<sigh>ps; I'm done debating the merits/demerits of this map. I feel the Tank addition is not worth the destructive elements in introduces, both in the game and the map. It throws the map completely out of whack. If it stays as is, the map will soon become an "also-ran" ..all on its own. Without the tank and with further enhancements and fixes, this map has a real and genuine potential of becoming a memorable classic.
Its not my map and I obviously have no say-so or influence on changes. I've offered my opinions and suggestions (only one of which the mapper has recognized or replied to). So, take it for what its worth - its entirely honest, caring observations and suggestions derived from years of experience. I'm done.
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Disagree all you wish. That's your right and privilege. Whether or not you are correct is another matter. The tank addition IMHO, to this map sucks.
WHAT do you think is happening now to the German teams?? A walk in the park? The Germans get steamrolled 90% of the time.
Tanks should NOT be in this map. The ultra high quality of infantry combat is diluted to a point of frustration and finally, boredom.NOBODY likes the "spawn/die - spawn/die - spawn/die" routine. That tank, simply put, ruins the full playability and repeat playability of this map. The Germans have little with which to defend against the tank.... the ARTY barrages are 6 minutes apart and the Tank respawns immediately. The PTRS is a joke - a hapless inaccurate joke and to get teamwork going so the SL's smoke the tank and the Engineers destroy it is a monumental task. The tank is a massive distraction from the real joy of infantry combat.It WAS a great, highly immersive infantry combat map. Maybe, when they are ready... a few APC's for each side but nothing more.
I'm to a point that when it comes up - I discover I have something IRL to do....
ps; I'm done debating the merits/demerits of this map. I feel the Tank addition is not worth the destructive elements in introduces, both in the game and the map. It throws the map completely out of whack. If it stays as is, the map will soon become an "also-ran" ..all on its own. Without the tank and with further enhancements and fixes, this map has a real and genuine potential of becoming a memorable classic.
Its not my map and I obviously have no say-so or influence on changes. I've offered my opinions and suggestions (only one of which the mapper has recognized or replied to). So, take it for what its worth - its entirely honest, caring observations and suggestions derived from years of experience. I'm done.
It's a work in progress. Calm down, seriously. More people have asked for and enjoyed the tank addition than haven't so... It's still needs balancing yes and I'm doing that but tbh reading your posts is not helping or inspiring me.
I don't know if you noticed but I asked in this thread (or in the other one) if one of you server admin guys (meaning you mainly) wouldn't mind finding out why you aren't able to disable the tank in my map, in your OWN thread. Once you find out, let me know and I'll make the change. Problem solved. I'm one person making this map and have a lot of other things in the map to sort out plus a real life job, not to mention a lot of other peoples ideas to listen to.
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I had hoped constructive criticism would be welcomed....
All well and good and yes, the matter of the tank removal was not only "noticed" but sincerely looked into and various avenues for a solution pursued to no avail. A map specific vehicle turn off might be possible but that's not a solution as it removes all vehicles. Turning off vehicles in WebAdmin also removes all vehicles in all maps. Perhaps limited spawns for the Tank and/or longer spawn times for the tank..... etc..? Or an Infantry ONLY version of the map?
In the end, its your map tho, do as you please. I, as a server admin, strive do my best to support the users, mappers and modders (the Community). If you feel my efforts are inadequate, I'm sorry for being negligent. However in all honesty, I feel I've done my best for this map.
As I said, I'm done..... carry on.
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By no means do I mean any offense, but where was the constructive criticism in half of your posts? Most every post I’ve read in which you complained about the tank, not many have you offered any constructive feedback… you’ve posted over and over again that you don’t like the tank and I also assume you don’t even like combined arms maps for that matter. That is fine. However, to rabble on and on about your dislike isn’t. Must we read again and again the same rebblings?
Personally, I think that the Russian Tank on this map is a serious challenge to the German Infantry, but in my opinion the German Infantry need to learn to avoid it, and they need to avoid tactics that would bunch them up into defensive positions that would be highly attractive to the T34-75’s crew. I think that the T34-75 adds an element of urgency to the German Defense and even a bit of disparity! WOW, almost feels like being in a battle doesn’t it?
In this map, the German Anti-Tank riflemen become really important in both their skill and understanding of their targets weaknesses. Furthermore, I believe it is almost vital that on any server running this map, that full tank damage realism is enabled wherefore parts of the tank can literally be destroyed without actually fully destroying the tank. On the server I was on the German Anti-Tank Crews simply de-tracked the tank making it a whole lot less effective in supporting the Russian Infantry. In a couple instances, the Anti-Tank crews destroyed the Tanks ability to rotate its turret making it really ineffectual. On servers that don’t allow components of the tank to be destroyed, I would guess that the Tank would more easily overpower the Germans ability to effectively combat it.
I agree that the re-spawn time for the tank should be tweaked in the interest of rewarding the Germans for destroying or disabling it. A brief battlefield relief after such a feat!
I agree that the Artillery cool-downs should be tweaked so that both sides get better use of it. I also agree that Artillery should be limited to mortar strikes for the Russians and Mortar and Howitzer Strikes for the Germans, albeit, the Germans should have slightly longer cool-down timers.
In my opinion, it would also be better to offset the T34-75 advantage on the battlefield by giving the Germans a couple of randomly occurring, but really well placed, Heavy Machine Guns positions. These positions would possibly become priority for the T34-75, thus relieving the German Infantry, even if only for short periods of time.
I agree that a crate with some Anti-Tank Grenades in the village/town or even in the Trench system of the first objective isn’t really that terrible of an idea but would need testing of concept to be validated.
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Haven't played the map as I'm away at the moment, so I can't judge the tank issue, but it's great to know that some asymmetry is still possible between teams. I was hoping that having one side given access to armor with the other infantry-only was still possible. Are asymmetrical infantry loadouts still possible in TE? (1 sniper on one team, no sniper on the other, etc...?)
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My post must have been overshadowed by the tank discussion, so I'm posting it again. I really want you to consider these suggestions, Harley, especially the one regarding spawning on SL.
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Yeah mate it was, but I read it just forgot to reply. I agree with SL spawning, not sure if that's up to me though, it maybe an admin setting, will look for it though.
The river water is just aesthetic at the moment so raising it wouldn't do anything currently, it needs to drown players but I don't know how to do it. If you have the skillz and the time maybe you could look into how to do it? It's something that would be used by other mappers as well.
More reinforcements, yes sir I agree.
yep that's possible.
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I wanted to do this but it's coded to be the same as inf unfortunately. Nothing I can do currently.I agree that the re-spawn time for the tank should be tweaked in the interest of rewarding the Germans for destroying or disabling it. A brief battlefield relief after such a feat!
there'l' be shorter times in the next version for both, Germans a litte bit longer than Russian but not like it is currently.
We'll see how the next version goes but it's a good idea for perhaps the one after.
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11_HARLEY_11, perhaps you could swap out the T-34/75 for the T-70 (or what ever the light tank that is supposed to be coming). It could support the Russians, but be easier for the Germans to knock out.
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Am I the only one who absolutely loves this map? I mean, it's gotta be one of my favorites. Whenever it comes up I spend the better part of 20 minutes trying to connect to the server, which is always full. Love the tanks, love the infantry combat, and the environment is STUNNING. I just wanted to congratulate you on an amazing piece of work.
I do notice, though, that the Germans are tending to get steamrolled a bit. granted, they don't have it nearly as bad as the Russians did initially, but once they get pushed past the fountain, they usually have no chance. The last german SP is also pretty vulnerable.
I do notice, though, that the Germans are tending to get steamrolled a bit. granted, they don't have it nearly as bad as the Russians did initially, but once they get pushed past the fountain, they usually have no chance. The last german SP is also pretty vulnerable.
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