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Lag mutator is the way to go

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SolitarioSoldat

SolitarioSoldat

Grizzled Veteran
Oct 28, 2010
1,177
503
USA,Tampa,Florida
#1
Noticed today that 2FJG server shut the lag mutator off, without it I'm shooting in wall next to me like 10 feet away and second later the bullet lands, thats with around 100 ping. How can someone code this game so bad?

Lag mutator fixed this issue, you still had to lead when shooting but not 15-20 feet ahead of the target.

Men this game stays the way it is and TWI wont fix it, its been months, if it was coded properly in first place there was no need for lag mutator.

Playing with 100 ping + no lag mutator + the wonderfull bullet delay coming out of the barrel = 200 ping gameplay.

Why wasting all the resources and time in bullet travel, we get that anyways with all the bad coding.
 
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#2
SolitarioSoldat said:
Noticed today that 2FJG server shut the lag mutator off, without it I'm shooting in wall next to me like 10 feet away and second later the bullet lands, thats with around 100 ping. How can someone code this game so bad?

Lag mutator fixed this issue, you still had to lead when shooting but not 15-20 feet ahead of the target.

Men this game stays the way it is and TWI wont fix it, its been months, if it was coded properly in first place there was no need for lag mutator.

Playing with 100 ping + no lag mutator + the wonderfull bullet delay coming out of the barrel = 200 ping gameplay.

Why wasting all the resources and time in bullet travel, we get that anyways with all the bad coding.
Click to expand...

clarification: 2fjg turned it off due to suspicion that it was causing server crashes, of which I had to suffer 1-2 :(
 
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#4
Client-side hit detection has its faults, but so does any system. It's simply not possible to perfectly synchronize rapid action over internet connections, so any system you implement is a compromise. The best results come by selecting the networking model that has the strengths and weaknesses that best match the requirements of the gameplay.

For Red Orchestra, I think it's a no-brainer. No other networking model can deliver the sort of ballistic precision that RO is built around, without crushing server hardware in the process. The slow pace of the game and the inability to respond to incoming fire means that the weaknesses of the client-side model rarely show up in gameplay, and are minor when they do. It's a perfect fit.

I was a bit baffled as to why Tripwire would decide against it, because it's so obviously the best choice. What's particularly surprising is that their Killing Floor game, an entirely co-op shooter, doesn't have any sort of latency compensation, either. It's a much lower precision game, but it still emphasizes headshots on moving targets. Were the zombies writing too many angry forum posts about "dying behind cover"? It makes no sense to not use it.

It's not even a difficult thing to implement in Unreal. The bulk of the work on the Antilag mutator was not related to client-side hit detection. That part was quick and easy. The majority of the work, and all the problems it's having related to crashing, was due to the clunky ways that mutators are forced to implement things...and the expected issues with being the first major mod for a codebase that's not exactly bulletproof and wasn't tested with mods until now.
 
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#5
Frostedfire said:
clarification: 2fjg turned it off due to suspicion that it was causing server crashes, of which I had to suffer 1-2 :(
Click to expand...

This is correct, we took it off; as our server was experiencing a crap ton of crashes. At one point we experienced three crashes within five hours. Before the anti-lag, mod went on, the server was stable, so we assumed it may be behind the crashes. For two days, it's been off the server, and we've not experienced a single crash :(.

I really hop this can be fixed as we seriously need to run that mod on our server. The avg ping on our server is well over 100. Server-side hit detection is unsuitable for 99% of our pub base :/. Sorry TWI but this game plays a hundred times better with client-side hit detection.
 
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#7
I disagree, mutator is unecessary. I frequently enjoy pings as low as 60, which is absolutely perfect, and i've had many 32 and 64 player games with pings just as good.

High pings? - I'm not sure why people still believe in them. I'm only on a connection that averages around 6 mbit, and I can sometimes find 64 player servers that list with pings as low as 30, and give me a luxurious stable ping around 65~.

I suspect the 'bots count as players' issue is causing servers to struggle to populate, and this is one reason why lagfree servers are hard to find for some


Old weaker servers may be an issue causing lag for some people. However, TWI are still working on the netcode, and I imagine they could well make a difference of 10-15ms.
To then go from enjoying ~65ms ping with 64 players to even 55ms, would be BEAUTIFULLY smooth! RO has never needed CS:S pings of 30. (in OST 90 was still OK!)

TL;DR: I frequently enjoy 64 player games with lovely ping, i think server availability and quality is affecting peoples perception of lag.
 
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#8
Calumhm said:
I disagree, mutator is unecessary. I frequently enjoy pings as low as 60, which is absolutely perfect, and i've had many 32 and 64 player games with pings just as good.

High pings? - I'm not sure why people still believe in them. I'm only on a connection that averages around 6 mbit, and I can sometimes find 64 player servers that list with pings as low as 30, and give me a luxurious stable ping around 65~.

I suspect the 'bots count as players' issue is causing servers to struggle to populate, and this is one reason why lagfree servers are hard to find for some


Old weaker servers may be an issue causing lag for some people. However, TWI are still working on the netcode, and I imagine they could well make a difference of 10-15ms.
To then go from enjoying ~65ms ping with 64 players to even 55ms, would be BEAUTIFULLY smooth! RO has never needed CS:S pings of 30. (in OST 90 was still OK!)

TL;DR: I frequently enjoy 64 player games with lovely ping, i think server availability and quality is affecting peoples perception of lag.
Click to expand...

Well, isn't that lovely for you? You have your full servers and a consistent ping, brilliant. Let me tell you, as an Australian, that high pings have not gone the way of the Dodo, and in fact much of our (dwindling) community has left because of how damn hard it is to scrape together 64 people and still be able to reliably hit a target in a country the size of Europe. Anti lag is our last gasp, perhaps it will revive the community, but if it doesn't even get picked up by servers then one thing is for sure, Australia won't be playing this game anymore.
 
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#9
SolitarioSoldat, the client side thing have it's good and bad points. Even if i don't like it i recognise that's combat is more fluid.

Yes we all know the game have some problems.



But your post is just "let's bore TWI a bit more". Example.

Men this game stays the way it is and TWI wont fix it
Click to expand...
Blablabla. Do you know TWI are working on netcode?

Ah but you know the truth grand master.
Why don't you create SolitarioSoldat's special patch that correct all the game problems don't you? Maybe best than just saying non sense on the forums.



Tripwire would decide against it, because it's so obviously the best choice
Click to expand...
Because obviously or not. No client side detection, for Tripwire, is the way to go. If you played since the mod you should know this. At least they always said it. Not like the obscure removal (add of casual) of realism gameplay.
 
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#10
Dietl said:
This is correct, we took it off; as our server was experiencing a crap ton of crashes. At one point we experienced three crashes within five hours. Before the anti-lag, mod went on, the server was stable, so we assumed it may be behind the crashes. For two days, it's been off the server, and we've not experienced a single crash :(.

I really hop this can be fixed as we seriously need to run that mod on our server. The avg ping on our server is well over 100. Server-side hit detection is unsuitable for 99% of our pub base :/. Sorry TWI but this game plays a hundred times better with client-side hit detection.
Click to expand...

Happy day, now I can come back to the server to play! Damn program (while as good as it is) made me crash every map
 
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#11
Mekhazzio said:
Client-side hit detection has its faults, but so does any system. It's simply not possible to perfectly synchronize rapid action over internet connections, so any system you implement is a compromise. The best results come by selecting the networking model that has the strengths and weaknesses that best match the requirements of the gameplay.

[...]

The slow pace of the game and the inability to respond to incoming fire means that the weaknesses of the client-side model rarely show up in gameplay, and are minor when they do. It's a perfect fit.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with that. It's a question of perception. Each approach has its downsides. But the downsides of client-side detection are barely noticeable (opposedly to server-side detection).
 
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#13
Vyllis said:
SolitarioSoldat, the client side thing have it's good and bad points. Even if i don't like it i recognise that's combat is more fluid.

Yes we all know the game have some problems.



But your post is just "let's bore TWI a bit more". Example.

Blablabla. Do you know TWI are working on netcode?

Ah but you know the truth grand master.
Why don't you create SolitarioSoldat's special patch that correct all the game problems don't you? Maybe best than just saying non sense on the forums.



Because obviously or not. No client side detection, for Tripwire, is the way to go. If you played since the mod you should know this. At least they always said it. Not like the obscure removal (add of casual) of realism gameplay.
Click to expand...
open ur eyes how long has it been since game is released?

No client side detection in this game = shooting 20 feet or more ahead of moving target sometimes even further depends on distance, you call this realisam? your delusional....
 
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#15
SolitarioSoldat said:
open ur eyes how long has it been since game is released?

No client side detection in this game = shooting 20 feet or more ahead of moving target sometimes even further depends on distance, you call this realisam? your delusional....
Click to expand...

Ugh, I myself don't have these problems some of you are saying, and I have played on servers that are suppossed to be in Russia from over here in the US. Why is that?

I do not want it built into the game.

However, if servers choose to run the mutator by popular demand, it is hard to argue against it (since they aren't my servers).

For those of you claiming you need to aim 20 feet or more in front of a target, you are either blatantly lying or you have some serious internet connection/computer issues you are choosing to ignore.
 
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#16
=GG= Mr Moe said:
Ugh, I myself don't have these problems some of you are saying, and I have played on servers that are suppossed to be in Russia from over here in the US. Why is that?

I do not want it built into the game.

However, if servers choose to run the mutator by popular demand, it is hard to argue against it (since they aren't my servers).

For those of you claiming you need to aim 20 feet or more in front of a target, you are either blatantly lying or you have some serious internet connection/computer issues you are choosing to ignore.
Click to expand...

The point is, with the stock game you need to lead by a different amount of distance depending on how your ping is.

With the mutator, the guessing game is gone.
 
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#17
10-78 BusterKing said:
The point is, with the stock game you need to lead by a different amount of distance depending on how your ping is.

With the mutator, the guessing game is gone.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong.... its a great mutator and yes, the guessing game is gone and much of the challenge and realism is too. With added security doubts, reconsideration is a must. Additionally, it intro's trubs with custom maps and certain of the stock maps with the Binocs/Nades only, no radios and client crashes. These trubs have only shown up as a result of widespread use.

Now maybe ...we can get the trubs cleared up.
 
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#19
MrHello said:
The crashing is due to problems with tripwire's engine, not the mutator. Tripwire will fix it, they always do. :) They also will implement cient-side hit detection natively, I'm sure. They always know how to cater to what the fans ultimately want.
Click to expand...

Can you really say these things with unerring assurances? :confused:
 
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