Lag mutator is the way to go

[Sensemann]

The crashing is due to problems with tripwire's engine, not the mutator. Tripwire will fix it, they always do. They also will implement cient-side hit detection natively, I'm sure. They always know how to cater to what the fans ultimately want.

I seriously doubt that TWI will implement client-side hit detection as they have always stated that they are against it.

I can only say that Mekhazzio's work on this is/was outstanding! I highly appreciate your work.

Being located in China, my average ping to a US server is around 280. So you can imagine how much I need to lead a target when being a machinegunner on e.g. Grain Elevator. (and I regularly see people playing with pings of 350+)
If there were populated servers with a better ping, of course I would choose them.
Mekhazzio's mod allows me to finally play without much lead and I could directly see how much better I was on the MG, because I could finally hit a target crossing my line of sight.

With the mutator on, I crashed once on 2.Fjg server. I hope the issues will quickly be resolved and the mutator will be running again. It's just so much better.

 

[Calumhm]

Dont get me wrong guys, I would want to see servers running this, it's great for the Aussies and such who usually suffer when it comes to lag.

It's just that, with the right server, I don't think RO2 is broke, so it don't need fixin!


That said... I think one reason it's hard for many to find a nice server, is because bots are counted as players, which means that all servers struggle to attract players.

 

[Calumhm]

For those of you claiming you need to aim 20 feet or more in front of a target, you are either blatantly lying or you have some serious internet connection/computer issues you are choosing to ignore.

For once I agree with GG Moe, although I think to suggest that anyone was LYING seems a little rude.

I think people are forced to play on sub-par servers alot, because of the small choice there IS in servers!

 

[Mike_Nomad]

If enough people consistently ask for the implementation of client-side and to have the mutator crashes fixed, I'm sure they will.

I mean, the argument has been proven it's the favoured route to take by a practical demonstration.

But as more and more players TRY to use it and the problems surface.... get the picture?

We are playing custom maps and enjoying them..... should we forego those new maps in favor of a mutator that's causing problems? No, I don't think so.

 

[Lone Rebel]

Server crashes? Interesting. There is of course the memory problem, but that's TWIs fault not AL. I agree though, every server needs to be running this, it changes the game into something playable and brings international communities together.

Agree completely!

The point is, with the stock game you need to lead by a different amount of distance depending on how your ping is.

With the mutator, the guessing game is gone.

Exactly!

The crashing is due to problems with tripwire's engine, not the mutator. Tripwire will fix it, they always do. They also will implement cient-side hit detection natively, I'm sure. They always know how to cater to what the fans ultimately want.

Really hope so mate, not that optimistic but... hope so

Anyway, personally, i'd rather have a server crash (yes, i repeat: i'd rather have a server crash, even 1 x hour) with antilag mutator ON that sparying bullets and keep checking my ping for guessing how much it will weigh on my next shot @ 200 mt in fallen fighters...

Plus, not everyone have the luck to have a good ISP, or to live in a big city were IC are good and maintained. Often, my ping is 160-200 for playing on a british server, but there is little i can do about it (I don't like a satellite dish over my family head )

This Antilag mutator have an enormous potential behind it, it just need to be integrated. Can't you imagine... a WHOLE WORLD able to play on the same basis from everywhere? Holy ****, you want to skip over this just because it crashes servers???? Are you totally nuts? This is a great opportunity to put RO2 name in videogame history, and you want to toss it in the garbage cuz it have some problems???!!!??? Or is it because it wasn't developped by yourself?

Take a good amount of time to think about this TWI, please, do that!

 

[Mekhazzio]

Anyway, personally, i'd rather have a server crash (yes, i repeat: i'd rather have a server crash, even 1 x hour) with antilag mutator ON that sparying bullets and keep checking my ping for guessing how much it will weigh on my next shot @ 200 mt in fallen fighters...

I take the same view, myself. I consider the shooting behavior to be the foundation of a shooter game, and if that doesn't work properly, then you have no game. *Everything* else is secondary, in my opinion. The default RO2 networking behavior is just not acceptable. Especially now that an alternative is available, I'd simply rather not play, than play with the defaults.

That said, I can understand the perspective of people who think the game gets too unstable with it running. RO2 just isn't up to the task of handling a complex mod just yet. Hopefully that will get ironed out soon.

This Antilag mutator have an enormous potential behind it, it just need to be integrated. Can't you imagine... a WHOLE WORLD able to play on the same basis from everywhere? Holy ****, you want to skip over this just because it crashes servers???? Are you totally nuts? This is a great opportunity to put RO2 name in videogame history

Well, it won't make history, because games have been using this for decades; it's not anything new. In the earlier days of online gaming, if you'd proposed a networking model where 50ms of latency made a huge difference in the experience, you'd be laughed right out of business...and for good reason. It's naive to develop a game to be played on the internet and then build it to tolerances so strict that the average internet connection can't come close to handling it. RO2's design only makes sense for a LAN-only game.

 

[Lone Rebel]

Uhm, I'll never stop to learn it seems

So, just to lessen my ignorance (which is always a good thing ) what is it so different between Ro2 and, just to say one among other, cod? Or Bf? Or any other online fps? Why do we need this antilag mutator to have a decent shoot?

That Ro2 balistics is so heavy to amplify the latency effect so much to make it unplayable? How did it work for Ro1 then, if this is the case?

And, if the above is correct, why did we have to come so far to discover?

When i play Ro2 it reminds me of my father (25 or more years ago) teaching me how to shoot birds, anticipating their trajectory, while shooting with a shotgun. Shooting at 100-150 mt with a solid round should be rather different, but it's not.

Thanks

 

[Mekhazzio]

So, just to lessen my ignorance (which is always a good thing ) what is it so different between Ro2 and, just to say one among other, cod? Or Bf? Or any other online fps? Why do we need this antilag mutator to have a decent shoot?

All the CoD and Battlefield games use a networking design similar to what Antilag does. Pretty much all shooters focused on bullet weapons have, even going all the way back to the first Rainbow Six games. Red Orchestra is the only one that needs third-party latency compensation because it's the only one that didn't do it that way out of the box.

 

[Golf33]

And for what it's worth, RO1's network model was pretty rubbish too. People constantly complained about poor hit detection, especially up close - sound familiar? You also had to lead targets by far more than is realistic, again especially up close.

Anti-lag provides a ballistic experience that is far more realistic and reliable than RO1 ever was.

 

[Mike_Nomad]

All the lamenting and castigation aside, the bottom line is if you run AntiLag and of course Dynamic Rotator... It benefits some and hassles others.

AntiLag intros problems - they must be addressed. Server crashes are intolerable! Anyone who would insinuate that a crash per hour is dandy is really not thinking straight.

 

[MarioBava]

All the lamenting and castigation aside, the bottom line is if you run AntiLag and of course Dynamic Rotator... It benefits some and hassles others.

AntiLag intros problems - they must be addressed. Server crashes are intolerable! Anyone who would insinuate that a crash per hour is dandy is really not thinking straight.

I've yet to see a crash personally but I don't play super long sessions and now that 2Fjg isn't running it I don't get much chance to play it on a full server. But I agree. Server crashes aren't cool, and are such an annoyance for admins that I don't blame them for backing off the mutator for now.

It would be sad to see this mutator crash and burn because of these unforeseen issues.

 

[echutter]

I love the anti lag mutator. Had better performance on a uk server running it then I did playing on the 2fg server.

 

[Lone Rebel]

All the lamenting and castigation aside, the bottom line is if you run AntiLag and of course Dynamic Rotator... It benefits some and hassles others.

AntiLag intros problems - they must be addressed. Server crashes are intolerable! Anyone who would insinuate that a crash per hour is dandy is really not thinking straight.

You don't have to see only the negative aspects. Of course having a server crashing often is not cool. But i prefer to have a server crash every now and then AND be able to play to the game and having fun (while it lasts, ok ) instead of having to eventually quit the game which i simply cannot play realistically for reason i can barely understand. For me (and i guess many others) the game must be playable, even if the server crash sometimes.

If you'd be playing and RPG, you'd rather have some crash to desktop but a great RPG, or the opposite? I mean, you'd have a perfectly stable rpg that just sucks... not so cool anymore, isn't it?

See it this way: crashes can be fixed (eventually ok, I cannot be sure of this)
The game won't get any better if nothing is done. If TWI have some WIP about this aspect, it's another story. But I haven't heard anything (could i've missed it, too)

So, for me, crash or not crash, antilag ON forever

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

You don't have to see only the negative aspects. Of course having a server crashing often is not cool. But i prefer to have a server crash every now and then AND be able to play to the game and having fun (while it lasts, ok ) instead of having to eventually quit the game which i simply cannot play realistically for reason i can barely understand. For me (and i guess many others) the game must be playable, even if the server crash sometimes....

See, I wouldn't. I can play rather successfully on Russian servers and others in Europe from here in the US without the mutator, and of course those here in the states as well. If the server was crashing sporadically I would be highly annoyed. So for me, it would be only negative.

Let those server admins choose whether to use the mutator or not and deal with server crashes, if it crashes at all.

 

[Lone Rebel]

Guess my IC really sucks then

 

[SQBsam]

Guess my IC really sucks then

Same here. I prefer a playable game with the occasional crash to an unplayable one that runs fine. Of course, I would prefer the best of both!

 

[r5cya]

I disagree, mutator is unecessary. I frequently enjoy pings as low as 60, which is absolutely perfect, and i've had many 32 and 64 player games with pings just as good.

High pings? - I'm not sure why people still believe in them. I'm only on a connection that averages around 6 mbit, and I can sometimes find 64 player servers that list with pings as low as 30, and give me a luxurious stable ping around 65~.

I suspect the 'bots count as players' issue is causing servers to struggle to populate, and this is one reason why lagfree servers are hard to find for some


Old weaker servers may be an issue causing lag for some people. However, TWI are still working on the netcode, and I imagine they could well make a difference of 10-15ms.
To then go from enjoying ~65ms ping with 64 players to even 55ms, would be BEAUTIFULLY smooth! RO has never needed CS:S pings of 30. (in OST 90 was still OK!)

TL;DR: I frequently enjoy 64 player games with lovely ping, i think server availability and quality is affecting peoples perception of lag.

interesting how completely wrong some people can be. but if i were running around on servers with 60 ping or less, i guess i wouldn't care enough about hit detection to learn either.

 

[Mekhazzio]

60 ping still isn't good enough for acceptable play in the default method, IMO. The difference is still noticeable to me, and shots can still whiff through no fault of your own. "It sucks less" is very much not the same thing as "it doesn't suck at all".

 

[Hptm. Jaadoo]

Just so TWI sees, that they're people who don't want client-based hitdetection: I don't want it.

I'd prefer them working on the netcode and optimizing it like crazy, or even rewrite, don't really care.

 

[Lone Rebel]

Just so TWI sees, that they're people who don't want client-based hitdetection: I don't want it.

I'd prefer them working on the netcode and optimizing it like crazy, or even rewrite, don't really care.

Ok, then we'll be able to play Ro2 for.... 2014? Maybe...

Solution is already there, it just need to be optimized (and don't tell me it can't be done if they want to) If they have another solution in mind and they are working on it, it's ok for me to wait and see. If they have nothing, they should go for this, at least for now. It's a matter of responsability, they did the game as it is, and they should provide fix\support for it. And this is a MAJOR POINT imo. TWi simply cannot pass over this as if nothing happened, ignoring the problems.