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Just a little hint about the SWAT perk, please?..

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#41
Aleflippy said:
Once again,I don't see why and how they would be overpowered... Make them expensive,heavy and ammo-hungry and call it a day. Most LMGs aren't very accurate either. So the pros of such a weapon would be huge damages and a good rate of fire , balanced by the fact that you'll be slower , won't be able to have a sidearm (besides maybe a pistol) and you can't really fire from afar.
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Which brings me to my second point: They would suck because they would suffer from low DPS and poor accuracy, a result of trying to balance a 200 magazine gun in a game where comparable weapons range between 20 and 40 rounds. I don't see Tripwire adding anything larger than a 40-50 round magazine fed LMG, if any at all. Also the claim that Machine Guns are not accurate is simply not true.


ScrakeMorgendorffer said:
By the same rationale, I don't see why a riot shield couldn't be included in a SWAT perk.
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Because a shield would just be dev sanction Zerkwalling, except even more effective. They're trying to get rid of Zerkwalling, not dedicate an entire perk to it.
 
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#42
Aleflippy said:
Once again,I don't see why and how they would be overpowered... Make them expensive,heavy and ammo-hungry and call it a day. Most LMGs aren't very accurate either . So the pros of such a weapon would be huge damages and a good rate of fire , balanced by the fact that you'll be slower , won't be able to have a sidearm (besides maybe a pistol) and you can't really fire from afar.
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A scar h already maws through every zed. Imagine an mg42 with its 8mm mauser in-game... I would literally feel like going prone in game and literally shred waves of zed. But i dont think it fits kf2. Kf2 is a high mobile game while lmgs are everything but mobile. And machine guns are extremely accurate. If you mean they will have alot of sway due to their weight, then yes.
 
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#43
Mr. Someguy said:
Which brings me to my second point: They would suck because they would suffer from low DPS and poor accuracy, a result of trying to balance a 200 magazine gun in a game where comparable weapons range between 20 and 40 rounds. I don't see Tripwire adding anything larger than a 40-50 round magazine fed LMG, if any at all. Also the claim that Machine Guns are not accurate is simply not true.




Because a shield would just be dev sanction Zerkwalling, except even more effective. They're trying to get rid of Zerkwalling, not dedicate an entire perk to it.
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Zerkwalling can be fixed in one easy step. Add knckback to some of the bigger zed. Imagine a fleshpound having the knockback similar to some of the attacks of the patty, Zerkwalling would be dead.
 
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#44
Mr. Someguy said:
Because a shield would just be dev sanction Zerkwalling, except even more effective. They're trying to get rid of Zerkwalling, not dedicate an entire perk to it.
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How are you even able to suggest that a riot shield would be "more effective" a zerkwalling tactic than zerks themselves, without even taking into account whether the shield is breakable, the kinds of enemies and attacks that can damage it, whether players can fire through the shield or not - you're completely disregarding an idea without any thought to ways that it can be implemented without it making it an effective zerkwalling tactic.
 
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#47
ScrakeMorgendorffer said:
Forum full of people crying out for less homogenised perks.

Same people happy with SMGs to fill some imagined niche between pistols and assault rifles.

It's complete opposition to variety that just makes me question whether the community has the faintest idea what it's complaining about to begin with.
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Because wanting 2 automatic weapon perks is a bad thing but wanting 3 melee perks is good? SMG's function differently from the rifles, damage comes from the rate of fire rather than the strong bullets. But nah, we need more melee classes...
 
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#48
I'm not making the distinction between "bad" and "good" when it comes to SMGs and a riot shield.

I'm saying that there's very little an SMG can do that an assault rifle at full auto can't. What's going to be the difference? Damage values and rate of fire, which to my mind isn't presenting variety - it's presenting the illusion of such.

A riot shield, on the other hand - a weapon designed for largely defensive purposes - gives variety in that perks that are squishy might actually be able to equip it to improve their ability to survive. Similarly, it isn't a melee weapon in the same sense as a katana or a pulverizer - the intent, at least to my way of thinking, is in a defensive role rather than offense.

In a game where people are crying out for perks to be less homogenised, what possibly could be gained variety-wise from an SMG that a riot shield couldn't offer?
 
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#50
ScrakeMorgendorffer said:
I'm saying that there's very little an SMG can do that an assault rifle at full auto can't. What's going to be the difference? Damage values and rate of fire, which to my mind isn't presenting variety - it's presenting the illusion of such.
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But similarly there isn't really anything a riot shield can do that holding block with the Katana doesn't. It's basically block as a weapon, and I don't see the appeal in that. Nor do I think it makes a lot of sense, because the perk is named "SWAT" rather than "Riot". I don't see a lot of use or appeal in having a shield based perk.


Shambler said:
Is the perk confirmed to be called SWAT?

Bit nit-picky but seeings as how the game takes place in Europe and the SWAT teams are a USA thing, that name doesn't really work out.
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Yes, there is a perk in the game files called SWAT. Also KF2 isn't specifically in Europe anymore: Farmhouse is in Georgia, USA.
 
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#52
ScrakeMorgendorffer said:
Many people didn't see the utility in a Gunslinger perk either - however its weapons used off-perk are arguably as useful to players as the weapons used on-perk.
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Actually Gunslinger is the most popular perk in my experience. Every game has a Gunslinger, and if I'm unlucky, it'll have 3. Gunslinger easily cleans up trash and is capable of doing the same to giants. A shield on the other hand is just a melee weapon with better blocking and without the melee part.
 
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#54
Mr. Someguy said:
Actually Gunslinger is the most popular perk in my experience. Every game has a Gunslinger, and if I'm unlucky, it'll have 3. Gunslinger easily cleans up trash and is capable of doing the same to giants. A shield on the other hand is just a melee weapon with better blocking and without the melee part.
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Gunslinger is popular now. It wasn't exactly lauded as being the best idea yet, prior to its release.

I don't really get what a riot shield would achieve. You progress by killing stuff, not by being passive with a shield.
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Tell that to the Field Medic next time they're pumping you full of darts to keep you alive.

Weapons that are mostly about defense, aren't useless. Would you call the pulverizer or the zweihander useless if they couldn't parry? Maybe, maybe not - but they certainly wouldn't be as desirable weapons without their defensive aspects.

Assuming for a moment that a riot shield were able to stumble zeds on a faster cooldown, that you could use the riot shield in conjunction with an EMP-effect taser, and you've got a perk that's extremely capable of being a solid supportive perk against most enemies without actually dealing substantial damage itself.

Offering a perk that actually supports other players - instead of merely blasting away with an AA-12, deluding itself that what it's doing is supportive rather than an offensive perk in its own right - would be a welcome addition to the game in my opinion.
 
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#55
ScrakeMorgendorffer said:
Tell that to the Field Medic next time they're pumping you full of darts to keep you alive.
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Yeah, but Medics still spend most the time shooting stuff, then spend a second or so spamming darts. That hardly compares to having a weapon that is literally just a movable section of wall.

ScrakeMorgendorffer said:
Other stuff
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What is SWAT about a riot shield and a taser? That's more fitting of a "Policeman" perk.
 
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#58
The game isn't solely about shooting everything that moves. It requires co-operation, utilising similar damage type weapons against particular enemies, and most importantly, it requires various team-mates to support each other.

Berserkers don't just hit everything that moves - they use EMP to support other players headshotting scrakes for decap.

Gunslinger uses leg-shots to maximise the amount of time that the fleshpound is out of action. Same concept with the Demo nade stun.

Medics headshot sirens and husks to stumble them, and leg-shot scrakes to buy team-mates time to get away once they're enraged. Firebugs use pushback on the MWG and Heat Wave to keep enemies away from their team also, in addition to fire panicking any zed that survives long enough to suffer the affliction.

Every perk has some means of supporting other perks - I can't see what the game has to lose by making a perk be mostly about that. It clearly obvious that with the skill tree having two separate items for each five levels, that they could at least offer one defensive playstyle as well as offensive, and let the players decide they way that they'd like to use the perk.

Giving the playerbase the option of being offensive or defensive isn't "not good" - it's a perfect way of implementing the "customise your perk to the way you want to play it" idea that Bill Munk specifically stated in the early access video.
 
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#59
ScrakeMorgendorffer said:
Forum full of people crying out for less homogenised perks.

Same people happy with SMGs to fill some imagined niche between pistols and assault rifles.

It's complete opposition to variety that just makes me question whether the community has the faintest idea what it's complaining about to begin with.
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As the reverend would say..... "Nope!"
 
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#60
It would be excellent to open up the game to "all strategies and tactics" but what it comes down to is the lowest form of common denominator... read gamey gameplay! Because no matter what you put in, how you see players using it... players will always look for the cheap option to win easy.

So whatever gets put in should pass that rule... i.e. does it promote gamey actions! If it does the it either needs reworking or to be removed.

The thing with LMGs is that in ScrN they were great fun. Hard to control. Sights would lift with a prolonged burst. Tehy were expensive - requiring teams to pool $$$ from other needed equipment but most of all the enemies were buffered to the point that even a full mag or belt wasnt enough on its own to kill a Jason (buffed scrake) or FP.

They were fun to use though. To a point.

With zerkwalking Id like it to say in but as suggested there should be some counter. I.e. like in Evac map. Camping at side of the stairs FPs and SCs can jump over the zerk walk and cut the softunderbelly within. Usually wiping the team. Theres the big clue. If a map is designed/built right then the spawns should take care of zerkwalking... even if its likely at waves 5+(7) or 6+(10). Another example is Farmhouse. Its very difficult to zerkwall there. I can be done in the basement or upstairs in the room/landing but you still need the skillz and players to do it. Those types of zerkwalling I .... personally can live. Cause theres a challenge there.
 
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