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Immersion Overhaul Mutator Information

THE SNIPING IS REAL

While I do adore what IOM is trying to do, I don't think it does it's best job at it. One of the things I would like to remove immediately is "sniper wars" and easy-to-handle sway, which I've talked about a bit already.

There's a couple of pretty much unsolvable problems:

Focus versus FOV - the removal of focus is great, yes, but it comes with it's own problem. While in focus, you see the world as you should see it, but you lack peripheral vision. When you're not using it, things appear to be farther away than they actually are. The worst part about this is that it does not remove sniper wars, because the guns are as accurate as ever - it just makes it a bit harder.
Natural combat of sway - The way sway works in real life is extremely tough to translate into the game, because it's comprised of external forces (gravity), random, unpredictable human movements and jerks and the fact, that the soldier is instinctively fighting all of these forces. This one, however, is more solvable and I'll try to show you how.
Depth of Field - If you have a rifle (or actually use anything that resembles it a bit), point it at something reasonably far away, similar to the distances you'll encounter in the game (50m-100m). You might notice, that it feels a lot different, because your gun is right here, in your hands and your target is out there, away in the field. On the computer's screen, everything is flat and on the same surface, so it feels much different and "easier" to aim.

Now, while the first and the last points are very tough to fix, I believe the second one might be at least simulated. Please welcome my poorly drawn Paint picture.

aim.png

What it represents are three layers of sway I'd like to introduce to you.
The green one represents your body's random movement. This includes very small movement of your irons tending towards left or right, with a slight addition of upper or lower correction. This force is very slight and should also feel "smooth". It exists so the player will try to correct it, so it actually forces a mistake, rather than being one.
The red one represents your breath. This force is generally as strong as the green one, so you could say they balance out, giving you a random sway in every direction. The difference, however, happens when your soldier is tired and breathes heavily - now this force is much stronger until he calms down. Also, pressing Shift holds your breath, canceling this force for a while - it does not remove all the other forces, but makes the sway a bit more predictable.
The black one represents your own force, kind of. What it does is that is takes your last movement (it's direction and speed), takes a small percentage of it and makes the gun go in that direction even if you don't move. I don't actually know if that's possible in the engine, but we can see. It is a very small percentage (10% tops).

Now, what's the point of all of this?
It's simple - the point is not to make it like your soldier has broken arms, which is how it feels in many games. It's also not made to make the sway predictable (for instance making a figure eight, like in many games). The point is for the gun to constantly smoothly jerk a bit and the player to try and combat that, making it feel both a bit random, yet still "caused" by the player himself.
If someone is just standing in the open - you'll still hit him easily.
If someone is sticking his head out - you might need a second to aim at it properly, but if he can't punish you for aiming at him - you'll still hit him.
But if someone is sprinting sideways from cover to cover, a couple of soldiers might be able to hit him, but one xXxEliTeSniperxXx shouldn't, unless he's really, really good.
You can't just point your irons at a bunker and go AFK until someone pops his head there. This goes back to the fact that some places which just beg to be a great defense spots, are actually deathtraps because they're too obvious.

All in all, that's just my idea. I think Dibbler got the idea of "sight misalignment" from me as well, either way, it was a pretty good try, even if the gun seemed to dislocate your shoulder. :) Still, I think it was a nice try and a very, very toned down version of it could find it's way into the mod, just as a thing that happens for a second after ADS.
 
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So is there a chance on an MP34? Basically it is a Type 100 smg with a straight box magazine, just like the MP40 and the bayonet lug is on the right side of the barrel not underneath.
It was used in both Wehrmacht and Waffen divisions even though it never became the main smg of the German forces.

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I believe that this gun could be made with less effort as the main model is already present in the Type 100 smg from Rising Storm. Even the animations for the 1st person hands and arms is virtually the same.

currently we are working on mp28 and emp35. later we will work on mp34
 
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currently we are working on mp28 and emp35. later we will work on mp34

That's awesome!!!

The MG42 and the P08 would be a godsend. How are you guys going to handle the MG42 if/when you eventually get it into the game? Is it going to be readily available to the MG class or is it going to be one of those random occurrences that you were talking about in an earlier post?


Speaking of machineguns. Can you actually add a melee animation to it? I know myself that a machinegun is quite heavy and I tested out myself, you can't swing it fast and easy like you can with a bolt-action or smg, but you could make some kind of stabbing move with it, like a lance except it is a blunt weapon. It still would hurt pretty much if you thrust the barrel end into somebody's rips or stomach.
 
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The MG42 and the P08 would be a godsend. How are you guys going to handle the MG42 if/when you eventually get it into the game? Is it going to be readily available to the MG class or is it going to be one of those random occurrences that you were talking about in an earlier post?

It is not really a 'rare' weapon except perhaps in Stalingrad. So it would just be a machinegunner weapon for most situations.

The weapon is technically already coded but models and animations are WIP.
 
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my suggestions to coders on AT HE grenades.

The info i found on internet:
RPG-40 - 760 gramms explosives - 20mm penetration;
RPG-41 - 1400-1500 gramms - 25mm penetration;
RGD-41 - 1000 gramms - 25mm penetration.

This is an info from many sources. Its obvious that RPG-41 penetration is underestimated. RPG-41 and RGD-41 grenades were very rare, so its expected that theres a lack information about them. I suggest to make next characteristics:

RPG-40 21mm
RPG-41 28mm
RDG-41 24mm
Gebalt ladung ( 180 x 7 = 1260 gramms ) 26mm
RGD-33 x5 ( 140 x 5 = 700 ) 20mm
RGD-33 x3 ( 140 x 3 = 420 ) 15mm

yeah, since we have really few information, we have to " guess " characteristics. If there is some explosive experts or someone have good information - that would be awesome if you tell us more about armor penetration of these HE grenades.

Also, 1 important thing.
ALL HE AT grenades were not powerful enough to destroy such medium tanks as pz4g ( except rear armor ) or t34 1942. They could succesfully destroy only light tanks and transporters. But they still could destroy track of tank and damage some things. IRL the main target of HE AT grenades against medium and heavy tanks was destroying the track and STOP the tank, not destroy it. So i suggest to add special effects for HE AT grenades:
destroying tracks, destroying cannon barrel and MG barrels.
distance of these effects should be lower for less powerful grenades.

Russian roles with rgd33 packs ( at least some of them ) should have choice between 3 x3 and 2 x5 packs. 3 3x packs can destroy tracks 3 times while 2 x5 packs have more chance to penetrate armor.
 
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i made some signatures,outta your screenshots guys,use them if you like :cool:
and thanks IOM team for saving Red Orchestra.

Hehe I have make some new Banner, too. But I really have find another, better font... and a way to let it look more HQ :rolleyes:

nice banner utek :cool:

by the way, the sniper was dibbler himself - on M. River (his name was above the head)
 

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It is not really a 'rare' weapon except perhaps in Stalingrad. So it would just be a machinegunner weapon for most situations.

The weapon is technically already coded but models and animations are WIP.

Perfect. There were only a few documented MG42s in Stalingrad so having it appear randomly would be awesome. Any maps after Stalingrad are fair game though.
 
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THE SNIPING IS REAL

While I do adore what IOM is trying to do, I don't think it does it's best job at it. One of the things I would like to remove immediately is "sniper wars" and easy-to-handle sway, which I've talked about a bit already.

There's a couple of pretty much unsolvable problems:

Focus versus FOV - the removal of focus is great, yes, but it comes with it's own problem. While in focus, you see the world as you should see it, but you lack peripheral vision. When you're not using it, things appear to be farther away than they actually are. The worst part about this is that it does not remove sniper wars, because the guns are as accurate as ever - it just makes it a bit harder.
Natural combat of sway - The way sway works in real life is extremely tough to translate into the game, because it's comprised of external forces (gravity), random, unpredictable human movements and jerks and the fact, that the soldier is instinctively fighting all of these forces. This one, however, is more solvable and I'll try to show you how.
Depth of Field - If you have a rifle (or actually use anything that resembles it a bit), point it at something reasonably far away, similar to the distances you'll encounter in the game (50m-100m). You might notice, that it feels a lot different, because your gun is right here, in your hands and your target is out there, away in the field. On the computer's screen, everything is flat and on the same surface, so it feels much different and "easier" to aim.

Now, while the first and the last points are very tough to fix, I believe the second one might be at least simulated. Please welcome my poorly drawn Paint picture.

View attachment 14636

What it represents are three layers of sway I'd like to introduce to you.
The green one represents your body's random movement. This includes very small movement of your irons tending towards left or right, with a slight addition of upper or lower correction. This force is very slight and should also feel "smooth". It exists so the player will try to correct it, so it actually forces a mistake, rather than being one.
The red one represents your breath. This force is generally as strong as the green one, so you could say they balance out, giving you a random sway in every direction. The difference, however, happens when your soldier is tired and breathes heavily - now this force is much stronger until he calms down. Also, pressing Shift holds your breath, canceling this force for a while - it does not remove all the other forces, but makes the sway a bit more predictable.
The black one represents your own force, kind of. What it does is that is takes your last movement (it's direction and speed), takes a small percentage of it and makes the gun go in that direction even if you don't move. I don't actually know if that's possible in the engine, but we can see. It is a very small percentage (10% tops).

Now, what's the point of all of this?
It's simple - the point is not to make it like your soldier has broken arms, which is how it feels in many games. It's also not made to make the sway predictable (for instance making a figure eight, like in many games). The point is for the gun to constantly smoothly jerk a bit and the player to try and combat that, making it feel both a bit random, yet still "caused" by the player himself.
If someone is just standing in the open - you'll still hit him easily.
If someone is sticking his head out - you might need a second to aim at it properly, but if he can't punish you for aiming at him - you'll still hit him.
But if someone is sprinting sideways from cover to cover, a couple of soldiers might be able to hit him, but one xXxEliTeSniperxXx shouldn't, unless he's really, really good.
You can't just point your irons at a bunker and go AFK until someone pops his head there. This goes back to the fact that some places which just beg to be a great defense spots, are actually deathtraps because they're too obvious.

All in all, that's just my idea. I think Dibbler got the idea of "sight misalignment" from me as well, either way, it was a pretty good try, even if the gun seemed to dislocate your shoulder. :) Still, I think it was a nice try and a very, very toned down version of it could find it's way into the mod, just as a thing that happens for a second after ADS.

I largely agree with that. Making the aiming require skill while not being perceived as needlessly annoying/complex is the real challenge.
 
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After not having touched RO2 for several months now, reading about this Mutator made me rather curious and guess what, I nearly couldn't believe what I was playing.

This mod brings all the stuff to RO2, that I dearly missed in the vanilla game and what made me leave for a modded Arma 2 back then...

The sound- engineering is superb, the random new skins (a thing I loved back in DH) are awesome and those game- slowing changes in the mechanics are just great for elderly people like me. :eek:

And not forgeting to mention those huge improvements in "historical accuracy" (meep meep). No more scoped MKB's. Just gotta love it.

Getting to the point, I just wanted to give a huge thanks from another oldtime RO- fan whose love to the game just got renewed. Guess I'm not the only guy feeling like that.

Greetz from Hamburg.
 
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