Gunslinger Perk - Yes or No?

[HaTeMe]

No resistance to Siren screams, especially as much as 50%. Considering that the Siren is one of the most deadly specimens in the game, that is absolutely insane. Not to mention that if for some ridiculous reason Tripwire did introduce a Siren resistance, it'd most likely go to Zerker seeing as that's the only close-quarters perk.

Why? Husk is also deadly in right situations and firebug has 100% resistance to his fireballs. Siren is deadly only when she happens do drop in the middle of your team AND if they all happen to be very close to each other, in every other case she's no danger since all perks apart from zerker are ranged.

The percentage is up to depate ofc, but I dont think its anywhere near "insane".

 

[Deafmute]

Why? Husk is also deadly in right situations and firebug has 100% resistance to his fireballs. Siren is deadly only when she happens do drop in the middle of your team AND if they all happen to be very close to each other, in every other case she's no danger since all perks apart from zerker are ranged.

The percentage is up to depate ofc, but I dont think its anywhere near "insane".

Yeah, the Husk also has fire resistance and Firebug doesn't have the "versatility" this perk has, nor the varied weaponry and movement speed. Firebug is pretty one-sided whereas Gunslinger is touted as being a jack-of-all-trades. The Siren is deadly in pretty much any situation if she's not dispatched of quickly. I see more people killed by Sirens and Crawlers than I do Fleshpounds.

What would be the purpose of the Siren resistance anyway? The Firebug's resistance to fire makes sense because, well, he is a firebug. The Gunslinger's Siren resistance seems like nothing more than an arbitrary choice in attempt to give GS "unique" attributes.

 

[9_6]

IF all this doesnt make Gunslinger unique, useful and different from other perks, I dont know what does... >_>

The only interesting bonus is the ironsight movement speed.
Being able to run & gun well should thus be the answer to the question what sets this perk apart from the commando.
Its not really enough though imo.

We need some more key playstyle-defining abilities.
Like the healthbars for the commando or the fire grenades for the firebug or shotgun penetration for supports.
Just some arbitrary damage resistance doesn't really fit.
If anything, damage resistance and probably less screen shake too is a berserker thing.

 

[Aze]

- Will not be slown down while using iron sights. The moving speed bonus doesnt affect on this ability.

I suggested this too (although in increasing percentages, but yours could be a 100% (or close to 100%) and could be a level 0 bonus too, just like ungrabbable for Berserker), but in addition to not make it a bad bonus, the "weapon sway" right and left when you run with Ironsight needs to be reduced too.

 

[brphoenix]

I'll need some ideas for the next poll then. 9_6 brings a decent point.

We can't just throw new bonuses and call it done. We need something that makes sense.

But we can't even agree on the perk's playstyle, so there's no reason to try and create an unique skill fitting one playstyle, when it'll be useless (almost) for the other playstyles.

I'll ask you guys quickly to say what possible playstyles the gunslinger may have. This is not a poll, just a list, so if someone said one of them, don't repeat please.
You may add pros and cons for the perk, just like I'm doing (colors aren't required, but it helps a lot )
We have, from what I've gathered:

Versatile - can handle every situation with relative ease, but does worse than perks meant to handle specific situations. Able to "replace" certain perks when they aren't close by. Will need a great deal of balancing, since this has lots of potential to be both underpowered and overpowered.
Run'n'Gun - kind of like a berserker with range but less firepower. Proposed resistances enable him to keep firing while under heavy damage (though not for long, since health drops as well). May encroach on commando's territory.

 

[Uk1t4k3]

Alright before we decide on the "unique" bonus of gunslinger we should look into the other perks and brainstorm a little.

Sharpshooter: Head shot bonus

Medic: Bonus protection from vest

Demolition: Explosive resistance

Commando: Able to see health and detect stalkers

Support: More penetration for shotguns and carry more

Berserker: Bloat bile and small resistance to all damage

Gunslinger: ?????

==========================================================

Here are my suggestion for the "unique" bonus of gunslinger:

1. ZED time last a few seconds longer but only affect gunslinger alone.
2. During ZED time gunslinger auto reload his current weapon with even faster reload speed bonus.
3. Auto aiming when ZED get very close to gunslinger.

 

[9_6]

Okay, lemme dig out my take on it:

+pistol damage
+reload speed
+ammo mags

-Gains a temporary reload speed boost when killing something (+10% for each kill, stacks up to 50%, lasts for 5 seconds, timer being reset with each kill so you can chain reloads?)
-Autofire with akimbo handguns
-Shooting specimens with dualies gives a higher chance to make them flinch (dance!)
-Extra damage with single handguns

Basically, there's 2 playstyles: 1 gun and 2 guns.

1 gun is all about precision and high damage per shot, the added damage for single guns underlines that.
+damage, precision
-mag size, firerate

2 guns is all about hosing enemies down, getting out of sticky situations.
The autofire and the increased flinch-rate (let's say a dual 9mm shot would make a gorefast flinch) would take that to the next level since getting out of trouble is so much easier if you can easily stun everything around you.
+firerate, stun
-damage, runs out of ammo fast

On top of all that, we have a reload-bonus that is based on how much you kill or rather how long you can keep killing something every 5 seconds.
Think of it as an adrenaline-meter, the more crap your dude kills in a row, the more twitchy his fingers become until he turns into the reloadspeed equivalent of a korean starcraft player.
That encourages run&gunning which the gunslinger is all about imo.

 

[Aze]

I'll need some ideas for the next poll then. 9_6 brings a decent point.

We can't just throw new bonuses and call it done. We need something that makes sense.

But we can't even agree on the perk's playstyle, so there's no reason to try and create an unique skill fitting one playstyle, when it'll be useless (almost) for the other playstyles.

I'll ask you guys quickly to say what possible playstyles the gunslinger may have. This is not a poll, just a list, so if someone said one of them, don't repeat please.
You may add pros and cons for the perk, just like I'm doing (colors aren't required, but it helps a lot )
We have, from what I've gathered:

Versatile - can handle every situation with relative ease, but does worse than perks meant to handle specific situations. Able to "replace" certain perks when they aren't close by. Will need a great deal of balancing, since this has lots of potential to be both underpowered and overpowered.
Run'n'Gun - kind of like a berserker with range but less firepower. Proposed resistances enable him to keep firing while under heavy damage (though not for long, since health drops as well). May encroach on commando's territory.

Well the Versatility and Run'n'Gun styles both suit well and they go hand in hand: Run'n'Gun makes you better to support your teammates in need by getting quickly close through mobility, while still having decent aim and firepower on the run while getting towards your matey, and Versatility through weapons make you actually able to Run'n'Gun with a weapontype for the spec(s) that your mates need help to take down.
So, a nice synergy to make the GS the jack-of-all-trades, master of none. Hope you get my point here.

Maybe i should colour all that in green?

 

[Vaecrius]

But we can't even agree on the perk's playstyle, so there's no reason to try and create an unique skill fitting one playstyle, when it'll be useless (almost) for the other playstyles.

...all this time I"d just assumed there was already some kind of perceived gameplay niche that needed filling that would justify all this talk about a new perk.

Dude this is like fitting a square peg into a round hole that doesn't even exist on a thing that doesn't look like it has room for a new hole.


EDIT: That said, a lot of the discussion here could be very useful for future developments for the SS and commando, or maybe the other existing perks. It seems to me that there are two distinct playstyles that have evolved for each of SS, commando, and medic, but the other perks don't have that sense of duality without resorting to off-perk weapons (medic doesn't count because every means of damage is "off-perk"). Perhaps this duality could be developed further, or expanded for the other perks, to give the game more variety without adding to the initial clutter that a new player would have to learn.

But to take a bit of an aside from that thought and going back to the topic of this thread: from what I've read the past couple pages, the gunslinger seems to be developing as taking over the secondary functions of SS and medic and the primary function of the commando, which means that SS and medic would have to be seriously nerfed in their secondary roles (causing all sorts of other bad, inintended consequences) and the commando overhauled to machine-gunner (possibly making firebug redundant). Without a unique role that the GS could fill it really doesn't look at all viable as part of the official game.

 

[C_Gibby]

*pics*

Those are very nice. C:

*adds to gun porn collection*

 

[Zeron]

...all this time I"d just assumed there was already some kind of perceived gameplay niche that needed filling that would justify all this talk about a new perk.

Dude this is like fitting a square peg into a round hole that doesn't even exist on a thing that doesn't look like it has room for a new hole.

Exactly. If there is no niche, why add it to the game? All the niches i can think of have been covered by existing perks. SS already has pistols and utilizes them well. Everything is fine as is.

 

[Unit-05]

Exactly. If there is no niche, why add it to the game? All the niches i can think of have been covered by existing perks. SS already has pistols and utilizes them well. Everything is fine as is.

Because it's too much. a level 6 sharpshooter when he starts can take on pretty much anything except a scrake with a handcannon (although ive seen them take down scrake with hand cannons too) that only costs around 150, and then have spare weapons that he has bonus's too as well

medic: mp7

firebug: flamethrower

berserker: Knife, machette, axe, katana/chainsaw

support: shotgun, hunting shotgun, AA-12

commando: Bullpup, ak47, scar

demolitions: m79, M32, pipebombs

sharpshooter: 9mm, hand cannon, LAR, crossbow, m14

the sharp shooter has too many heavy hitters, And that should only go with the support specialist. And the pistol he even starts out he gets major damage bonuses with it, husks die in like 3-4 shots to the head with the 9mm.

Infact, why bother buying the crossbow other then for fleshpounds when the handcannon can rail through multiple enemys like the crossbow and down pretty much everything except the fleshpound? What is a sharpshooter, a sniper in all senses, doing with medium/close quarter weapons such as pistols?

Wouldn't it make more sense if it was just "sharpshooter: LAR, crossbow, M14"?

 

[Zeron]

Because it's too much. a level 6 sharpshooter when he starts can take on pretty much anything except a scrake with a handcannon (although ive seen them take down scrake with hand cannons too) that only costs around 150, and then have spare weapons that he has bonus's too as well

medic: mp7

firebug: flamethrower

berserker: Knife, machette, axe, katana/chainsaw

support: shotgun, hunting shotgun, AA-12

commando: Bullpup, ak47, scar

demolitions: m79, M32, pipebombs

sharpshooter: 9mm, hand cannon, LAR, crossbow, m14

the sharp shooter has too many heavy hitters, And that should only go with the support specialist. And the pistol he even starts out he gets major damage bonuses with it, husks die in like 3-4 shots to the head with the 9mm.

Infact, why bother buying the crossbow other then for fleshpounds when the handcannon can rail through multiple enemys like the crossbow and down pretty much everything except the fleshpound? What is a sharpshooter, a sniper in all senses, doing with medium/close quarter weapons such as pistols?

Wouldn't it make more sense if it was just "sharpshooter: LAR, crossbow, M14"?

It would make more sense for the SS to only have the weapons you stated, but it's not gamebreaking that the SS has pistols to begin with. Now instead of every new player starting as SS for maximizing their 9mm they just go gunslinger.

If the SS can do so much with a HC what makes you think the GS couldn't do the same thing with it's shiny new revolver or HC? Because that's his "niche"? I don't see anything wrong with the SS utilizing pistols to defend himself at close range.

Hell, Demo should get some perk benefits for pistols considering it needs to break out the 9mm or HC every 5 seconds to get stuff that gets close off of him unless you have helpful teammates.

 

[Deafmute]

Er...since when do Husks die from four 9mm headshots? What difficulty are we talking here?

 

[SMIFF]

Er...since when do Husks die from four 9mm headshots? What difficulty are we talking here?

Hard, around about 3 players if I remember correctly.
Level 6 SS

 

[Fang+]

What a lvl 6 Gunslanger would look like(IMO):

20% Recoil Reduction to all weapons
20% More Damage with the 9mm, Handcannon, Revolver, and Machine Pistol
45% Faster Reload
15% Faster Running speed
No speed reduction while Iron Sighting(credit to HaTeMe)

And some kind of discount on the Handcannon, Revolver, and Machine Pistol and clip size increase also

 

[Zeron]

What a lvl 6 Gunslanger would look like(IMO):

20% Recoil Reduction to all weapons
20% More Damage with the 9mm, Handcannon, Revolver, and Machine Pistol
45% Faster Reload
15% Faster Running speed
No speed reduction while Iron Sighting(credit to HaTeMe)

And some kind of discount on the Handcannon, Revolver, and Machine Pistol and clip size increase also

Run speed? Why? Also your stats are incredibly underwhelming.(for a level 6)

I'd say more like:

Level 6

• 75% less recoil with perked weapons
• 60% more damage with perk weapons
• 50-75%(not sure) reload speed with perked weapons
• Zed time extensions OR faster reloading during zed time OR no speed reduc while ironsighting
• 50% more pistol ammo
• Spawn with Handcannon(or other pistol) and armor

I'm not really sure what you would spawn with, considering the limited amount of weapons the gunslinger would actually have if it was implemented.

 

[Unit-05]

Er...since when do Husks die from four 9mm headshots? What difficulty are we talking here?

4 head shots with 9mm on suicidal kills a husk as a level 6 sharpshooter, I can even make a video if you want, I did it not too long ago.

It would make more sense for the SS to only have the weapons you stated, but it's not gamebreaking that the SS has pistols to begin with. Now instead of every new player starting as SS for maximizing their 9mm they just go gunslinger.

If the SS can do so much with a HC what makes you think the GS couldn't do the same thing with it's shiny new revolver or HC? Because that's his "niche"? I don't see anything wrong with the SS utilizing pistols to defend himself at close range.

Hell, Demo should get some perk benefits for pistols considering it needs to break out the 9mm or HC every 5 seconds to get stuff that gets close off of him unless you have helpful teammates.

Because the gunslinger will not have the heatshot bonus, and that matters for a good reason.

The sharpshooters bonus to heatshot damage is tremendous, and the weapons he is ment to use is slow and powerful weapons to balance that. But when you have more rapid firing weapons such as the 9mm and handcannon (Or the m14...), he can use his damage bonus to such an extent that its broken and unfair, Imagine if the aa-12 has 5 times the ammunition pool(hunting shotgun glitch anyone?).

 

[Zeron]

4 head shots with 9mm on suicidal kills a husk as a level 6 sharpshooter, I can even make a video if you want, I did it not too long ago.



Because the gunslinger will not have the heatshot bonus, and that matters for a good reason.

The sharpshooters bonus to heatshot damage is tremendous, and the weapons he is ment to use is slow and powerful weapons to balance that. But when you have more rapid firing weapons such as the 9mm and handcannon (Or the m14...), he can use his damage bonus to such an extent that its broken and unfair, Imagine if the aa-12 has 5 times the ammunition pool(hunting shotgun glitch anyone?).

You're still aiming for the head regardless of which perk you play(or at least you should be) and the head naturally has less health than the body. So regardless of headshot bonus or not, you could probably still take down a scrake as gunslinger with a HC in a mag(mag for gunslinger should be bigger than SS).

 

[brphoenix]

You're still aiming for the head regardless of which perk you play(or at least you should be) and the head naturally has less health than the body. So regardless of headshot bonus or not, you could probably still take down a scrake as gunslinger with a HC in a mag(mag for gunslinger should be bigger than SS).

Unlikely. The SS's headshot damage was high enough to drop a scrake with a dual HC mag emptied in his head. The gunslinger won't be able to dish out that much damage, even with extended mags. Or at least I hope he won't.