I have noticed, and correct me if i'm wrong, but about 20 people in the killing floor's Ideas and Suggestions forums post on everything, and that most of them are about the flaws and incorrectness of the first post. Now yes, the threads are started by other people and those people have a augment about the smallest things with the 20 people.I also notice that there aren't that many different people on the a allot of the forums, and the few who do have similar opinions. I think that this has made the forums the way for the few to get their ideas into the game and not a way for the masses to get their ideas even heard. To prove my point, I will go into random severs and ask people if they post in forums and what their opinions are.
Forums supported by the masses??
- Thread starter spartenmaster194
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Sort of on topic, but I think people are far too possessive of the suggestions forums.
"I don't like this idea, so it shouldn't be in game. Its also not worth TWI's time to put it in the game."
That crap irks me. If you have an opinion, great. Share it and move on. But far too many people around here try to speak for the community as a whole, and (even worse) for TWI.
But people not using the search feature and posting a suggestion that has been suggested at least 100 times is an entirely different matter. Thats just laziness.
"I don't like this idea, so it shouldn't be in game. Its also not worth TWI's time to put it in the game."
That crap irks me. If you have an opinion, great. Share it and move on. But far too many people around here try to speak for the community as a whole, and (even worse) for TWI.
But people not using the search feature and posting a suggestion that has been suggested at least 100 times is an entirely different matter. Thats just laziness.
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I wish it was otherwise, but it's likely true. But the KF community does not seem all that drawn to forums for some reason =/
Well, I only say its not worth the time when it's someone going "My idea is so awesome: its an m16 with a riot sheild attachement, and kills anything. You disagree and you are a horrible person".
I try not to use it as an argument, but sometimes I just have to speak my mind and say "Is adding 50 new animations so you can look slightly cooler really worth the painstaking effort?"
Well, I only say its not worth the time when it's someone going "My idea is so awesome: its an m16 with a riot sheild attachement, and kills anything. You disagree and you are a horrible person".
I try not to use it as an argument, but sometimes I just have to speak my mind and say "Is adding 50 new animations so you can look slightly cooler really worth the painstaking effort?"
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It depends a lot on the attitude behind the suggestion. There's no quicker way to draw an angry mob on these forums than to crack a massive whinge about nothing or otherwise demonstrate an unwarranted sense of entitlement, but that's fair enough as far as I'm concerned. Cases where the poster clearly didn't make any effort also qualify. But when suggestions are made reasonably and with care, people around here usually respond in kind, even when they disagree.
The problem is that the badly-made entries are the overwhelming majority.
The problem is that the badly-made entries are the overwhelming majority.
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Its a hard point to argue for or against because sadly gaming has opened up to a much wider demographic.
Gaming has shifted to a much more casual audience, and as result it has become big business. You can see it in almost all new releases that alot deveopers put features in just to be able to write them on the back of the box rather than put in features that will really help the game.
eg:
- EA and Dead Space 2's completely worthless and unnecessary multiplayer mode.
- THQ and their revamping of the controls in their Smackdown series, making them far less flexible and slowing down the game.
- Team Ninja and Ninja Gaidens camera angles to show off Ryu's sword skills, rather than keep your camera somewhere that allows you to see approaching enemies.
- Activision and Call of Duty (any of them after 3) with their noobtubes, arsehole kill streak rewards, claymores, stun grenades, the list goes on.
Sadly games aren't made for gamers anymore, they are made for money, and Tripwire are one of the few developers who actually stop to think how do we make this fun, challenging and balanced?
We could ask the mass market what they want in the game, but lets face it, it would turn KF into one of those "back of the box" games and scratch yet another game for gamers off the list along with Counter Strike Source and TF2.
Not that I'm predjudice against other types of gamers... but I've seen way too many good games ruined by the idea of making them more open to the casual market. KF for me stands as a champion against that, and honestly I'll die to defend it.
Gaming has shifted to a much more casual audience, and as result it has become big business. You can see it in almost all new releases that alot deveopers put features in just to be able to write them on the back of the box rather than put in features that will really help the game.
eg:
- EA and Dead Space 2's completely worthless and unnecessary multiplayer mode.
- THQ and their revamping of the controls in their Smackdown series, making them far less flexible and slowing down the game.
- Team Ninja and Ninja Gaidens camera angles to show off Ryu's sword skills, rather than keep your camera somewhere that allows you to see approaching enemies.
- Activision and Call of Duty (any of them after 3) with their noobtubes, arsehole kill streak rewards, claymores, stun grenades, the list goes on.
Sadly games aren't made for gamers anymore, they are made for money, and Tripwire are one of the few developers who actually stop to think how do we make this fun, challenging and balanced?
We could ask the mass market what they want in the game, but lets face it, it would turn KF into one of those "back of the box" games and scratch yet another game for gamers off the list along with Counter Strike Source and TF2.
Not that I'm predjudice against other types of gamers... but I've seen way too many good games ruined by the idea of making them more open to the casual market. KF for me stands as a champion against that, and honestly I'll die to defend it.
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What Jester said. ^
A lot of the casual gamers are coming in here and making loads of suggestions to make the game like the games that the more "hardcore" KF playerbase who actually love KF and have it as their most-played game disagree with. The KF players don't like many of the new games coming out because they are all too similar and dumbed down, and we want to see KF keep its roots from the KF1.0 days by being different and intended for gamers who really do love a challenge and an exciting struggle.
A lot of the casual gamers are coming in here and making loads of suggestions to make the game like the games that the more "hardcore" KF playerbase who actually love KF and have it as their most-played game disagree with. The KF players don't like many of the new games coming out because they are all too similar and dumbed down, and we want to see KF keep its roots from the KF1.0 days by being different and intended for gamers who really do love a challenge and an exciting struggle.
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It's pretty amazing that people don't realize how shovelled-out all the big-release games are these days. I don't think they're even using a different engine for the Call of Duty games...and they're just rehashing the weapons over and over again now. They're gonna release a new one every year or so, like the Madden games, and people are going to eat it up.
I swear, that game was basically the death of online adversarial FPS games for me. I could tolerate things like Halo, but there's just something innately...corporate...about Call of Duty that turns my stomach.
Also, LMAO @ Team Ninja. I swear they make Ryu a silent protagonist most of the time because their dialogue is so bad. And their inability to write any believable, well-rounded female characters is on par with Frank Miller.
*Cough* M-16 *Cough*
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I agree with a lot of what other people have already posted.
The one thing I love about KF is that it's not like every other game out there. The forums are populated by what could be called a diehard fan base and while they come over a bit possessive its not a surprise. A lot of the more casual suggestions would turn the game into a carbon copy of every other game, the opposite to what we enjoy about KF. And I can understand that.
I'm not saying new ideas are bad, it's just most of the ideas don't fit in with the feel of KF. Which is drastically different from our currently homogenised fps market.
The one thing I love about KF is that it's not like every other game out there. The forums are populated by what could be called a diehard fan base and while they come over a bit possessive its not a surprise. A lot of the more casual suggestions would turn the game into a carbon copy of every other game, the opposite to what we enjoy about KF. And I can understand that.
I'm not saying new ideas are bad, it's just most of the ideas don't fit in with the feel of KF. Which is drastically different from our currently homogenised fps market.
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What the heck Jester? One man army + noobtube is totally a legitimate tactic!
Just kidding. Seriously though: say what you want about all that other crap that ruined the COD franchise, but I hate the term "noob tube". Sure there are people out there who abuse it, but some of us use it just like an extra grenade (for clearing out snipers and campers).
Back on topic (sort of):
I had a holy doody fit when modern warfare two came out. Not about the lack of dedicated servers (like most people), but because of dual wielding shotguns and heartbeat sensors. The games industry is following a disturbing trend I like to call "Bang bang boom, lets make this crap easy and forget about the story?".
Its like a Michael Bay film: great visuals that pack an explosive action punch, but shallow in every other way. Its making me sick.
Jester was on point, as always.
I personally blame the invention of rechargeable health.
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As soon as the masses decide to sugegst good ideas that aren't overused crappy guns from other popular FPS', or ridiculous concepts that completely bugger the game's balance and require a ton of work for such a meagre reward; then I'll start supporting them.
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This. Like it or not, the "masses" have a tendancy of suggesting things that cant be implemented or there is no need to - for example - all the weapon suggestion threads which mostly consist of an actual list of weapons they think would be cool but they give no reason to WHY they should be added.
While the core community here might be small, its not like we are preventing people from joining in or preventing them from getting their ideas in the open. If they arent posting in the forums its not OUR fault their voices wont be heard.
And its not like OUR ideas are the only ones being implemented. The latest update was created as a group effort by Tripwire and a 100 or so beta testers with I think a minimum of 50(?) hours of gameplay (cant remember the exact amount, couldve been more). While some of the participants were from these forums, there were also a lot of people who've never even visited these forums or at least arent posting here. They couldve just done the changes themselves or ignored us completely, but they didnt. If thats not prove enough that the voice of the masses is being heard, what is?
You cant expect them to implement every P90 and M16 being suggested you know.
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From what I see, talking to friends, etc. Most people stay out of the forums due to things such as, trolls, abusive, childish, insulting people. Some people seem to go out of their way to ridicul people when they suggest or say something that the other person does not like. The conversation starts off normal and polite, then one of these types will come in and intentionaly start some kind of argument, or post an aggressive reply that does nothing but ruin the thread. Instead of posting why they do not agree in a calm, mature way, they simply state things like ''thats stupid'', ''worst idea ever'', they post replies that are aggressive in nature, or replies that are a complete strech in relation to what the OP was trying to say, etc, causing the posts to quickly become aggressive, childish, and completely non productive. We know why trolls do it, but with the others I believe that it is that they lack the ability to admit being wrong, then when someone posts, or replies with something that is hard to discredit, they go on the offensive, and unfourtunatly, there are quite a few people in these forums that enjoy seeing that happen, kind of like the crowd that gathers and chants FIGHT FIGHT around 2 people fighting, which leads to the ''one line'' responses that encourages the offender to continue, and repeat the behaviour on other threads as well. They could also simply be children, or immature adults that lack the mental maturity to interact in a proper adult mannor. When I am reading a post or reply, as soon as I see a childish, out right abusive, or insulting remark, then I stop reading, even if I'm only on the 1st line of a wall of text reply, and as far as I am concerned, the conversation, or back and forth with that person is over.
We have moderators in here that are supposed to stop things like this from happening, but the only time I see a moderator do their job is when someone posts a screen shot of a glitch, other than that, they do nothing, or at least, very little to keep the forums clean. IMO, as soon as someone posts any sort of insulting, childish, aggressive, or abusive reply, the moderator should delete it and warn the poster about their behavior. I think such constant policing of the forums would help bring more people into them. If the Moderators are to busy, then they should consider asking some of the more rational regulars here if they would be intrested in the job.
There are a few people in here that I believe would be good at the job, such as Undedd Jester, and Scary Ghost, just to name two off the top of my head.
We have moderators in here that are supposed to stop things like this from happening, but the only time I see a moderator do their job is when someone posts a screen shot of a glitch, other than that, they do nothing, or at least, very little to keep the forums clean. IMO, as soon as someone posts any sort of insulting, childish, aggressive, or abusive reply, the moderator should delete it and warn the poster about their behavior. I think such constant policing of the forums would help bring more people into them. If the Moderators are to busy, then they should consider asking some of the more rational regulars here if they would be intrested in the job.
There are a few people in here that I believe would be good at the job, such as Undedd Jester, and Scary Ghost, just to name two off the top of my head.
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Also, it should be noted there are just over 30,000 people registered on the forum(many of them from the RO days, prior to KF's existence) and god knows how many of them are actually active on the forum, while hundreds of thousands play Killing Floor. To say the forum tends to not represent what "the masses" think is an understatement, but during out Beta last year, where we were trying to fix up the balance of the game, we had quite a few casual players jump in(some existing on the forum and some drawn in by the beta). The balance update, while not every aspect is loved by everyone, definitely had a casual/hardcore balance in mind(which is why we added Hell on Earth instead of just making Suicidal harder).
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Aye, I'm glad that KF supports casual audiences and makes the game accessible. But the problem is we still get people popping in to suggest ways to make the game a bit easier. We have lower difficulty levels for a ****ing reason.
Some people just fail to get that into their heads, see, in the games that they are used to even the most average player can beat the top difficulty. (proven by the fact that CODBLOPS' campaign plays itself.)
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I see where the 1st wasted is coming from, there are a couple of members (I won't say who) that will just result to bickering and trolling.
But I also think it stems to that most new members (the ones that don't hang around) jump straight into the ideas and suggestions thread, don't use search, or even just browse a few threads and post an idea without sufficient grounding ie the "Add MOAR gunz!" or "Add m16 plz!" threads. And the long time forum goers lose patience with it. And yes while the more polite members bite their tongue and try to address the OP; some, and quite rightly so, are just fed up so won't bother in repeating what has been said in a lot of threads.
When I joined I spent some time browsing the forums and quickly picked up on the trouble makers. While I won't discount their replies to my posts I just don't get upset over it. Saying that I don't think any of my posts have attracted anyone's ire yet. That might change now. lmao.
I love the fact that KF is easy to get into yet scales to a clusterf--k state of affairs. It's a good thing. But I agree with C_Gibby, people expect to be able to own a game on it's hardest difficultiy. IE that particular game I can't stand that was just mentioned. Heh, I just remember DOOM and QUAKE's hardest difficulty. Heck, even games like Commander Keen and Cannon Fodder where more of a challenge.
But I also think it stems to that most new members (the ones that don't hang around) jump straight into the ideas and suggestions thread, don't use search, or even just browse a few threads and post an idea without sufficient grounding ie the "Add MOAR gunz!" or "Add m16 plz!" threads. And the long time forum goers lose patience with it. And yes while the more polite members bite their tongue and try to address the OP; some, and quite rightly so, are just fed up so won't bother in repeating what has been said in a lot of threads.
When I joined I spent some time browsing the forums and quickly picked up on the trouble makers. While I won't discount their replies to my posts I just don't get upset over it. Saying that I don't think any of my posts have attracted anyone's ire yet. That might change now. lmao.
Aye, I'm glad that KF supports casual audiences and makes the game accessible. But the problem is we still get people popping in to suggest ways to make the game a bit easier. We have lower difficulty levels for a ****ing reason.
I love the fact that KF is easy to get into yet scales to a clusterf--k state of affairs. It's a good thing. But I agree with C_Gibby, people expect to be able to own a game on it's hardest difficultiy. IE that particular game I can't stand that was just mentioned. Heh, I just remember DOOM and QUAKE's hardest difficulty. Heck, even games like Commander Keen and Cannon Fodder where more of a challenge.
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I would much rather have a game that completely stresses me out because it keeps kicking my @ss. I hate getting something I thought was going to be good, and then breezing through it on max difficulty.
Remember some of the puzzels in the 1st 3 parts of Half-Life? Hours spent trying to figure out what the heck to do to get to the next area.
Remember some of the puzzels in the 1st 3 parts of Half-Life? Hours spent trying to figure out what the heck to do to get to the next area.
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I love HalfLife with a passion. I remember how I struggled to get it to run on my PC at the time. It was the first game that got me onto playing FPS with a mouse, before it wasn't so important. Took me ages to complete. Still play it to this day.
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