Fire & Maneuver Realism Mod
- Thread starter gentrinity
- Start date
It sounds good to me, however if DH style "aim snapping" is added, please keep it to a minimum. The other day I was playing DH, and a friendly roughly 6-8 feet away from me kept shooting his M1911A1. He was in front of me, and his rounds were going down range and not at me. Every time he shot, my aim jumped 4-5 inches around in a random pattern. And I was crouched from a rested position. If you I am in a group of friendlies and am taking fire I can almost never get an even somewhat accurate shot off.
My other suggestion would be to remove the morale system completely. It is not needed IMO.
My other suggestion would be to remove the morale system completely. It is not needed IMO.
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PLEASE make this mod 
PLEASE do those things what TWI had to do but they didn't because the money was larger than the concept.
PLEASE do those things what TWI had to do but they didn't because the money was larger than the concept.
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Reading over your proposed feature list I'm liking the idea and I've got a couple of suggestions to add for discussion:
1) Would it be possible to create a separate "MG squad" or 2 for each team? Obviously this would need to depend on the team size & number of MGs available under the new weapon load-out.
The idea here is that you could then have a rifleman spawn on each MG as an assistant gunner/loader as opposed to having all squad members deploy on the squad leader.
2) With melee damage I'd suggest adding a visual effect when hit (i.e. give them screen shake / zero-morale vision effects)so that it's harder for the victim to simply turn around and pop a bullet in you. Hitting someone with a rifle butt may not kill them in 1 hit, but it'll certainly mess up their day.
3) As for bandaging time, 30 seconds is a long time in RO. If you make bandaging take that long then I predict people will simply suicide or get themselves shot because they will spawn faster than it takes to bandage the wound. That and in 30 seconds you've got a good chance of the guy you shot returning to show you the sharp end of a bayonet!
On the whole though the mod sounds like a great idea.
1) Would it be possible to create a separate "MG squad" or 2 for each team? Obviously this would need to depend on the team size & number of MGs available under the new weapon load-out.
The idea here is that you could then have a rifleman spawn on each MG as an assistant gunner/loader as opposed to having all squad members deploy on the squad leader.
2) With melee damage I'd suggest adding a visual effect when hit (i.e. give them screen shake / zero-morale vision effects)so that it's harder for the victim to simply turn around and pop a bullet in you. Hitting someone with a rifle butt may not kill them in 1 hit, but it'll certainly mess up their day.
3) As for bandaging time, 30 seconds is a long time in RO. If you make bandaging take that long then I predict people will simply suicide or get themselves shot because they will spawn faster than it takes to bandage the wound. That and in 30 seconds you've got a good chance of the guy you shot returning to show you the sharp end of a bayonet!
On the whole though the mod sounds like a great idea.
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@Atomic
Thanks for the suggestions, heres a quick reply to each point.
1) I could, I can look into it, but ultimately, in a realism scrim, it's up to the squad leaders to sort out the teams. I can't see this really working in a pub server. I do like your idea of being able to spawn on them, however, this would be more for the pub server and most definitely not something the realism community will look for. I'll definitely try to implement it as one of the later features.
2) Right now, it's incredibly frustrating hitting a guy and he not even so much as twitch. There will definitely be debilitating attacks that will throw players into violent jerks and fits the moment they get hit. No reaction is just something that you only hear from Medal of Honor recipients. All types of hits will have some sort effect, this is currently ridiculous.
3) 30 seconds is a lot of time now, but it wont be when maps get bigger, which I can almost guarantee they will be. Also, suiciding and respawning will not be so quick. I want to institute penalties for constantly getting yourself killed. Also, this is a feature that will work a lot better in the realism community, because a lot of those scrims are one life.
Thanks for the suggestions, heres a quick reply to each point.
1) I could, I can look into it, but ultimately, in a realism scrim, it's up to the squad leaders to sort out the teams. I can't see this really working in a pub server. I do like your idea of being able to spawn on them, however, this would be more for the pub server and most definitely not something the realism community will look for. I'll definitely try to implement it as one of the later features.
2) Right now, it's incredibly frustrating hitting a guy and he not even so much as twitch. There will definitely be debilitating attacks that will throw players into violent jerks and fits the moment they get hit. No reaction is just something that you only hear from Medal of Honor recipients. All types of hits will have some sort effect, this is currently ridiculous.
3) 30 seconds is a lot of time now, but it wont be when maps get bigger, which I can almost guarantee they will be. Also, suiciding and respawning will not be so quick. I want to institute penalties for constantly getting yourself killed. Also, this is a feature that will work a lot better in the realism community, because a lot of those scrims are one life.
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Hey there Ferano,
How about giving the Commander/SL the option to use bolts? I know it's not totally realistic, but I know that as a Squad Leader, I hate having to take one of my squad's SMGs (seeing as some realism matches limit us to, say, 2 SMGs per squad) because I can't switch out of Semi or SMG.
How about giving the Commander/SL the option to use bolts? I know it's not totally realistic, but I know that as a Squad Leader, I hate having to take one of my squad's SMGs (seeing as some realism matches limit us to, say, 2 SMGs per squad) because I can't switch out of Semi or SMG.
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Hey Brandt,
It kinda goes against what I want for the mod, since I would like the SLs to get in there and lead the charge to cap the objectives. Giving the SLs a long range weapon will foster long range play by them. I can definitely work something out once the SDK comes out specifically for the 101.J, but in the meantime, you're going to have to ask a member to drop a weapon for you and then have them suicide out, or just trade your weapon with the person you want to give the SMG to.
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Alright
Sometimes I like to be able to sit back and give orders, but guess I'll have to learn how to attack with the rest of them By the way, this looks like some great stuff. Can't wait for it.
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Alright
By the way, this looks like some great stuff. Can't wait for it.
Thanks.
Well, I'm just thinking more in line with what the Americans did in WW2. They gave their SLs Thompsons on purpose because they didn't want them engaging with the men, they wanted them to direct fire. Unfortunately, in RO2. you can't really do firefights the way you could do them in Darkest Hour, with the suppression or the map sizes.
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Awesome mod concept mate!
Now the only thing I'm waiting for is TWI to fix the ****ty performance and low FPS and your mod to come out!
Now the only thing I'm waiting for is TWI to fix the ****ty performance and low FPS and your mod to come out!
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you know, it would be best to give everyone what they want with a customizer mod that allows server admins to tweak the damage, sway, hud items etc. That way leagues can use any settings they like etc. This can be done with a mutator that brings up a menu with sliders and checkboxes etc. or read from a config file.
I would be all for joining a team who is interested in that. Just have to wait for the "real" SDK.
I would be all for joining a team who is interested in that. Just have to wait for the "real" SDK.
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@samthegreat4
Thanks mate
@Rahabib
I have to standardize it unfortunately. The idea behind the mod is that people will be able to train with the mod and get to use to the sway and other settings. If every server had their own version of suppression, sway, and recoil, then every unit would probably posses different skills and whenever you go on somebody else's server, the opposing team will always have the advantage.
Thanks mate
@Rahabib
I have to standardize it unfortunately. The idea behind the mod is that people will be able to train with the mod and get to use to the sway and other settings. If every server had their own version of suppression, sway, and recoil, then every unit would probably posses different skills and whenever you go on somebody else's server, the opposing team will always have the advantage.
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A Realism mod with the Mkb and AVT?
Surely all the Mkbs should be taken out of all Stalingrad maps and AVTs should be taken out of everymap because the AVT was such a horrid gun the Russians hardly used it. I could say the same for the G41.
Also Questions.
- What do you plan to do with the Uniforms with no ranking system?
- Are Padded Parkas going to stay this early in the war?
- Will Uniforms be more variaty instead of rank? Such as Telogreika.
Are you going to fix this mess?
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A Realism mod with the Mkb and AVT?
Surely all the Mkbs should be taken out of all Stalingrad maps and AVTs should be taken out of everymap because the AVT was such a horrid gun the Russians hardly used it. I could say the same for the G41.
Also Questions.
- What do you plan to do with the Uniforms with no ranking system?
- Are Padded Parkas going to stay this early in the war?
- Will Uniforms be more variaty instead of rank? Such as Telogreika.
Are you going to fix this mess?
Ok, I need to clarify that I am shooting for combat realism, not historical realism. You obviously know a lot more about historical realism, particularly because I never really studied the Eastern Front as much as the Western Front. However, I know a **** ton about WW2 style combat and what game mechanics need to be present in order to best simulate it. Also, my aim is to represent WW2 style combat that can be applied throughout all theatres and periods. This means I can't limit my mod to a particular set of maps, because if Rising Storm has the same weapon behavior as stock RO2, then I would want to transfer my mod to that one.
Also, while I will edit some of the weapon loadouts on the code side, like adding that class, it will still be up to the map makers to edit the loadouts on the map side. I'm sure some Stalingrad battles featured a plethora of PPSH41s, while others might have been mostly bolt actions. Also, different units will have different weapon loadouts depending on what the real life counterpart had during the war. My mod has to strike a balance and then let units figure it out for themselves.
Finally, as to skins, that is currently not as big a concern for me as it doesn't impact combat as much as other issues. Notice how "as much" is in bold, I know that there are certain uniform features that are currently affecting combat, like the platoon leader's cap, that need to be fixed. I will definitely consider your suggestions and try to implement them a little bit later in the mod.
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I wish I could help but all I can guarantee is a loyal fan/player for years to come if you succeed.
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Looks promising. Keenly following. I have not read everything in here, so apologies if I repeat suggestions others already proposed.
1. Armoured Units & Morale. Friendly armoured vehicles boosts morale by being present. Closer vicinity equals stronger effect. Vice versa, enemy armoured vehicles hurts morale by being present. Closer vicinity = stronger effect.
2. Armoured Units Destruction & Morale. Friendly armour destroyed hurts morale. Closer vicinity & witnessing the destruction / explosion / burning = stronger effect. Same mechanics but opposite effect regarding enemy armour.
3. Witnessing gruesome gore & Morale. Witnessing particularly violent deaths of any kind (dismemberment especially) hurts morale. A bit if enemy, a lot if friendly. Vicinity gives stronger effect. Absolutely requires that the gore is witnessed ON SCREEN.
4. Distance to friendlies & Morale. (I did read the OP on morale). Heavy penalty for being away from friendlies. Even a single friendly nearby helps combat the worst effects, but more regular soldiers have small effects beyond that. Squad members have a bit stronger effect. Squad leader and Commander have huge effect. This is a realistic way to motivate others to integrate into their squad.
5. Death of Squad Leader or Commander & Morale. Similar as tanks. A hefty (but temporary) morale shock, but depends on vicinity. The closer, the stronger the effect.
6. Reload speed & Suppression & Morale. Reloads slower, or failed reloads (drops the magazine, puts the wrong magazine in (a bug presently often makes the player insert an almost empty magazine instead of one of the full ones regardless of morale/suppression state), has trouble getting the old one detached from the weapon, drops the cartridge when trying to feed them one by one into the opened receiver). I believe Far Cry 2, and Fallout: New Vegas, has some of these effects. In the latter, a weapon with lower condition sometimes requires extra effort to really work the bolt, put in a new mag and such.
7. MG34 properly firing a mix of tracer and regular ball. In game, shooting semi-auto makes it shoot only non-tracer, while auto fire gives proper mixture. The HMG34 properly feeds the mixed ammunition during semi-auto.
8. Taunts / war-cry & Morale. Hearing enemy taunting or charging with bayonet gives a morale penalty. The closer the vicinity, the stronger the effect. The charge scream being scarier. Vice versa, friendly war cries & taunts give slight morale boost.
9. New Ability: Rest MG without bipod. This simply permits shouldering the MG as a rifle with iron sights, on window frames and other objects. This is meant to get around the sometimes absurd situations where it can't be deployed properly (there are some positions, such as on Pavlov's House, the Axis corner apartment building, second floor eastward, with superb view down a street and Zeb's House, has sandbags and some curtains above it - MG cannot deploy). Or when it can't be pivoted down far enough to hit those 5 guys crawling close to your building etc. Fatigue when shouldered (more sway), sluggish response to movement (just like when manning HMG) and MKB-type recoil, with unstable lateral movement tendencies from recoil (imagine the barrel sliding on a window frame sideways, not being securely attached to the ground with the bipod the way it should be).
10. Lock human crew at their crew position in tanks. If assigned as driver, unable to flip instantly between the other AI crewed positions. But is able to switch if another crew position is unmanned (crewmand died etc), which is a slow awesome looking animation inside the tank. The current situation with a friend in a P4 is often terribly chaotic, and rather gamey.
11. Elevation & Morale. Being higher than enemy gives boost. Being lower gives penalty.
12. Cover & Morale. Being behind sandbags, masonry stuff, trenches, gives morale boost. Being exposed in the open gives morale penalty.
13. Location Memory Associations & Morale. Whenever seeing friendly wounded or killed, the location of this event is stored. Going close to the location of the previous casualties gives a morale penalty. Typical example: Witness many people killed in a certain window, or trying to cross a dangerous street covered by enemy tank or MG fire. Going to the area where this happened (Maybe 5 meter horizontally, 1 meter vertically radius?) = morale penalty.
14. Friendly Fire & Morale. Wounding a friendly = moderate morale penalty. Killing a friendly = severe morale penalty. Vicinity very important - such as guys who intentionally teamkill at 2 meters range with a shot to the head get the severest morale penalty possible, lasting until they respawn. Also, nearby casualties caused by friendly fire = higher morale penalty than if caused by enemy. Seeing casualties from friendly artillery for example, causing more morale penalty than if enemy artillery.
15. Ammunition & Morale. When running low on ammunition (say 1-2 magazines/clips) a morale penalty occurs. The less ammo, the stronger the effect. Having no ammunition gives the strongest. Vice versa, being well stocked on ammo has a positive effect.
16. Smoke & Tanks. Did they by any chance have means to deploy smoke screens to protect themselves? Modern vehicles all have advanced smoke tube launchers that are highly effective for that. It seems likely that the advantage of smoke was known in WW2 times. Even just throwing some grenades out the hatch while reversing could help.
1. Armoured Units & Morale. Friendly armoured vehicles boosts morale by being present. Closer vicinity equals stronger effect. Vice versa, enemy armoured vehicles hurts morale by being present. Closer vicinity = stronger effect.
2. Armoured Units Destruction & Morale. Friendly armour destroyed hurts morale. Closer vicinity & witnessing the destruction / explosion / burning = stronger effect. Same mechanics but opposite effect regarding enemy armour.
3. Witnessing gruesome gore & Morale. Witnessing particularly violent deaths of any kind (dismemberment especially) hurts morale. A bit if enemy, a lot if friendly. Vicinity gives stronger effect. Absolutely requires that the gore is witnessed ON SCREEN.
4. Distance to friendlies & Morale. (I did read the OP on morale). Heavy penalty for being away from friendlies. Even a single friendly nearby helps combat the worst effects, but more regular soldiers have small effects beyond that. Squad members have a bit stronger effect. Squad leader and Commander have huge effect. This is a realistic way to motivate others to integrate into their squad.
5. Death of Squad Leader or Commander & Morale. Similar as tanks. A hefty (but temporary) morale shock, but depends on vicinity. The closer, the stronger the effect.
6. Reload speed & Suppression & Morale. Reloads slower, or failed reloads (drops the magazine, puts the wrong magazine in (a bug presently often makes the player insert an almost empty magazine instead of one of the full ones regardless of morale/suppression state), has trouble getting the old one detached from the weapon, drops the cartridge when trying to feed them one by one into the opened receiver). I believe Far Cry 2, and Fallout: New Vegas, has some of these effects. In the latter, a weapon with lower condition sometimes requires extra effort to really work the bolt, put in a new mag and such.
7. MG34 properly firing a mix of tracer and regular ball. In game, shooting semi-auto makes it shoot only non-tracer, while auto fire gives proper mixture. The HMG34 properly feeds the mixed ammunition during semi-auto.
8. Taunts / war-cry & Morale. Hearing enemy taunting or charging with bayonet gives a morale penalty.
The closer the vicinity, the stronger the effect. The charge scream being scarier. Vice versa, friendly war cries & taunts give slight morale boost.9. New Ability: Rest MG without bipod. This simply permits shouldering the MG as a rifle with iron sights, on window frames and other objects. This is meant to get around the sometimes absurd situations where it can't be deployed properly (there are some positions, such as on Pavlov's House, the Axis corner apartment building, second floor eastward, with superb view down a street and Zeb's House, has sandbags and some curtains above it - MG cannot deploy). Or when it can't be pivoted down far enough to hit those 5 guys crawling close to your building etc. Fatigue when shouldered (more sway), sluggish response to movement (just like when manning HMG) and MKB-type recoil, with unstable lateral movement tendencies from recoil (imagine the barrel sliding on a window frame sideways, not being securely attached to the ground with the bipod the way it should be).
10. Lock human crew at their crew position in tanks. If assigned as driver, unable to flip instantly between the other AI crewed positions. But is able to switch if another crew position is unmanned (crewmand died etc), which is a slow awesome looking animation inside the tank. The current situation with a friend in a P4 is often terribly chaotic, and rather gamey.
11. Elevation & Morale. Being higher than enemy gives boost. Being lower gives penalty.
12. Cover & Morale. Being behind sandbags, masonry stuff, trenches, gives morale boost. Being exposed in the open gives morale penalty.
13. Location Memory Associations & Morale. Whenever seeing friendly wounded or killed, the location of this event is stored. Going close to the location of the previous casualties gives a morale penalty. Typical example: Witness many people killed in a certain window, or trying to cross a dangerous street covered by enemy tank or MG fire. Going to the area where this happened (Maybe 5 meter horizontally, 1 meter vertically radius?) = morale penalty.
14. Friendly Fire & Morale. Wounding a friendly = moderate morale penalty. Killing a friendly = severe morale penalty. Vicinity very important - such as guys who intentionally teamkill at 2 meters range with a shot to the head get the severest morale penalty possible, lasting until they respawn. Also, nearby casualties caused by friendly fire = higher morale penalty than if caused by enemy. Seeing casualties from friendly artillery for example, causing more morale penalty than if enemy artillery.
15. Ammunition & Morale. When running low on ammunition (say 1-2 magazines/clips) a morale penalty occurs. The less ammo, the stronger the effect. Having no ammunition gives the strongest. Vice versa, being well stocked on ammo has a positive effect.
16. Smoke & Tanks. Did they by any chance have means to deploy smoke screens to protect themselves? Modern vehicles all have advanced smoke tube launchers that are highly effective for that. It seems likely that the advantage of smoke was known in WW2 times. Even just throwing some grenades out the hatch while reversing could help.
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@MikkOwl
Fairly long list so I will briefly touch on each point. I want to stress that morale in this game won't kick in until you're actually getting shot at, this game would become rather unbearable if you would constantly see suppression effects. Also, a lot of your requests have technical limitations, and would require a lot of code to be running in order to achieve these effects. This means more lag for everyone.
1.) Good point, I like the idea, I'll see if it's possible.
2.) Same as above.
3.) This is going to be rather difficult and require quite a bit of processing power. Don't think this can work. There is an enum that I found that is for the type of gore, whether it's some gore or massive gore. I can give some sort of extra penalty if massive gore occurs, but again, would only kick in if shot at.
4.) If you read the OP, you wouldn't suggest this, because this is exactly what I describe. I'm confused.
5.) This is already in the game, if any of your friendly soldiers die, you get a morale penalty, however, I think it may be done by radius, where the commander has the biggest radius and fellow soldiers have a smaller one.
6.) The player is already getting penalized in sway, recoil, reload speed, and suppression effects. I don't want to add frustrating jamms to that mix, I want people to still have fun.
7.) I might have a look into that. Seems like a reasonable request, albeit, if the current game has the exact same ballistics for tracers, then I see no point to it other than an aesthetic fix, which is out of the scope of this mod.
8.) I kinda like this idea, but I would need to add a button players could press to automatically do those war cries when assaulting. This would work great in Rising Storm as well. I will definitely look into it, I like it.
9.) This is definitely something I need to add, MGs should be shouldered, but naturally with penalties, and the hip firing should also have some sort of larger penalty, since right now the weapon is so good at clearing rooms.
10.) My mod is more infantry based, I have no real interest in tanking. As it is right now, I agree that tanking is gamey, but I'm not willing to spend hours on something like that.
11.) That's a tough one, I like it, but tough. It would also take a bit of extra computing power since I would need to continuously check for a players elevation against the elevation of the person he is engaging. I'll see what I can do.
12.) That's also a tough one, just because of the way the engine works, it's easy to give a morale boost when using cover, because I'm sure CoverLink has some sort of way to identify when the player is using it, but other general cover, much harder to do. Would also require much more processing power.
13.) Yeah, definitely not worth the amount of work and performance hit this sort of thing would put on players. Imagine 64 players having to store each incident.
14.) I kinda like this idea, morale penalty for hitting a friendly. Should be able to implement it, good suggestion.
15.) I don't think this should be a main morale penalty. I also want to institute ammo sharing, even though I don't have it listed, so as long as you're with your teammates, you should be good to go.
16.) Darkest Hour had it, not sure about RO1, but it should definitely be implemented.
Fairly long list so I will briefly touch on each point. I want to stress that morale in this game won't kick in until you're actually getting shot at, this game would become rather unbearable if you would constantly see suppression effects. Also, a lot of your requests have technical limitations, and would require a lot of code to be running in order to achieve these effects. This means more lag for everyone.
1.) Good point, I like the idea, I'll see if it's possible.
2.) Same as above.
3.) This is going to be rather difficult and require quite a bit of processing power. Don't think this can work. There is an enum that I found that is for the type of gore, whether it's some gore or massive gore. I can give some sort of extra penalty if massive gore occurs, but again, would only kick in if shot at.
4.) If you read the OP, you wouldn't suggest this, because this is exactly what I describe. I'm confused.
5.) This is already in the game, if any of your friendly soldiers die, you get a morale penalty, however, I think it may be done by radius, where the commander has the biggest radius and fellow soldiers have a smaller one.
6.) The player is already getting penalized in sway, recoil, reload speed, and suppression effects. I don't want to add frustrating jamms to that mix, I want people to still have fun.
7.) I might have a look into that. Seems like a reasonable request, albeit, if the current game has the exact same ballistics for tracers, then I see no point to it other than an aesthetic fix, which is out of the scope of this mod.
8.) I kinda like this idea, but I would need to add a button players could press to automatically do those war cries when assaulting. This would work great in Rising Storm as well. I will definitely look into it, I like it.
9.) This is definitely something I need to add, MGs should be shouldered, but naturally with penalties, and the hip firing should also have some sort of larger penalty, since right now the weapon is so good at clearing rooms.
10.) My mod is more infantry based, I have no real interest in tanking. As it is right now, I agree that tanking is gamey, but I'm not willing to spend hours on something like that.
11.) That's a tough one, I like it, but tough. It would also take a bit of extra computing power since I would need to continuously check for a players elevation against the elevation of the person he is engaging. I'll see what I can do.
12.) That's also a tough one, just because of the way the engine works, it's easy to give a morale boost when using cover, because I'm sure CoverLink has some sort of way to identify when the player is using it, but other general cover, much harder to do. Would also require much more processing power.
13.) Yeah, definitely not worth the amount of work and performance hit this sort of thing would put on players. Imagine 64 players having to store each incident.
14.) I kinda like this idea, morale penalty for hitting a friendly. Should be able to implement it, good suggestion.
15.) I don't think this should be a main morale penalty. I also want to institute ammo sharing, even though I don't have it listed, so as long as you're with your teammates, you should be good to go.
16.) Darkest Hour had it, not sure about RO1, but it should definitely be implemented.
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![2Lt.Horvath [6th AB]](/data/avatars/s/36/36264.jpg?1568638684){kind=avatar}
Perhaps if larger maps are made a radioman class would be necessary, he could shadow the commander and allow him to put in arty orders on the fly. Would be good if people starting remaking old RO maps or DH.
Oh, and by the bye, your list of goals is basically what this community has been crying out for, it's just a shame Tripwire have been blinded by Call of Duty to realise it.
Thank you
Oh, and by the bye, your list of goals is basically what this community has been crying out for, it's just a shame Tripwire have been blinded by Call of Duty to realise it.
Thank you
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