My Steam name is on your private box.
Show me your insane skills
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Bot farming really needs to end
- Thread starter Nikita
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Show me your skills too. Added you.
I don't mind bots, they enable more games. (Well, they used to when I played regularly.) Who is going to sit on an empty server in the hope that half a dozen other people of a similar mindset will come along and put up with a sh_t game for an hour or so before the server reaches a critical mass of players which can then start to draw in the less patient amongst us. Bots at least give you something to do while you wait.
If a player feels aggrieved about someone having a higher rank, better stats, or better gear than they do because of 'cheating' then I'd suggest that incensed player may have missed the point somewhat. Grinding in RO2 was a conscious design decision; a horribly flawed decision, but there it is nevertheless. There is also a strong argument that exploiting the system is the only quick way to get through the pointless and illogical relatively under-equipped and relatively under-statted early levels; fight fire with fire.
Farming bots is a symptom of the disease, not the cause.
If a player feels aggrieved about someone having a higher rank, better stats, or better gear than they do because of 'cheating' then I'd suggest that incensed player may have missed the point somewhat. Grinding in RO2 was a conscious design decision; a horribly flawed decision, but there it is nevertheless. There is also a strong argument that exploiting the system is the only quick way to get through the pointless and illogical relatively under-equipped and relatively under-statted early levels; fight fire with fire.
Farming bots is a symptom of the disease, not the cause.
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Honestly, WHY do bot kills and team points in bot-dominated servers count towards class progression, weapon unlocks, and honor level? Bots didn't count towards achievements in Ostfront--partly because they were dumb as rocks. Now, I hate to be harsh, but bots just aren't anywhere near smart enough to warrant counting towards unlocks and progression in RO2.
I should have thought that it would go without saying that only human players should count for stats progression. Allowing bots to count simply undermines all justification for the entire system to begin with.
I was initally surprised to see Heroes running around like headless chickens, committing basic errors, refusing to support their team, even teamkilling and griefing. Now I know why that's the case.
I hope action on this can be taken relatively soon--otherwise, so many players will be at an undeservedly high level that a stat reset will be required... and I'll lose my hard-earned PPSh drum magazine for the second time.
100% Agree. Bots should neber count to the experience level.
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Im not skilled player, I just farm bots for marksman unlocks
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I think it should stay, for the simple reason that bots are needed for a lot of people to level on low populated servers.
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Grind unlocks by killing humans, grind unlocks by killing bots. It's all just a measure of time playing.
Really isn't much difference.
Really isn't much difference.
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Well, I think TWI added bots to online game for some reasons.
First of all, could you imagine how many players we would have when bots wouldn't be there or if they wouldn't count as kills? 500 players online after few months after release sound pathetic but very possible.
Bots are visible in server browser as players. Many wouldn't join servers if there would be like 1 player only. IIRC TWI changed it to show players and bots to make impression that "people" still play their game.
Secondly some players still play the game to unlock stuff only. These kind of players usually try to find easiest and fastest possible way to do it. Bot farms are the answer.
Some classes need time to unlock stuff or level up. When in Battlefield 3 you need less than 300 kills (few hours) to unlock all 16 addons to specific weapons, RO2 requires a lot of more kills to get two unlocks. Bot farms are answer for HoS players.
To sum it up. All kind of unlocks are disaster for multiplayer games like Red Orchestra. Players focus on leveling in easiest possible way, trying to kill others only, not fight for objectives or team goal. RO:O didn't have unlocks and such problems. Biggest achievement for Ostfront players was winning the rounds and having fun in game.
First of all, could you imagine how many players we would have when bots wouldn't be there or if they wouldn't count as kills? 500 players online after few months after release sound pathetic but very possible.
Bots are visible in server browser as players. Many wouldn't join servers if there would be like 1 player only. IIRC TWI changed it to show players and bots to make impression that "people" still play their game.
Secondly some players still play the game to unlock stuff only. These kind of players usually try to find easiest and fastest possible way to do it. Bot farms are the answer.
Some classes need time to unlock stuff or level up. When in Battlefield 3 you need less than 300 kills (few hours) to unlock all 16 addons to specific weapons, RO2 requires a lot of more kills to get two unlocks. Bot farms are answer for HoS players.
To sum it up. All kind of unlocks are disaster for multiplayer games like Red Orchestra. Players focus on leveling in easiest possible way, trying to kill others only, not fight for objectives or team goal. RO:O didn't have unlocks and such problems. Biggest achievement for Ostfront players was winning the rounds and having fun in game.
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Do you think I like to farm bots?
No i don't, but I like to have all stuff, every unlock is a present for me.
Without farm bots, for "normal" players is impossible to have all unlocks.
Even with farm bots it takes forever...
The person responsible for testing "experience points for unlocks" never again should deal with testing like this.
Inexperienced players gain very little points, for them every unlock is a frucking hard work!
So I can understund why they give up, they give up becouse LV up in RO2 is not funny.
No i don't, but I like to have all stuff, every unlock is a present for me.
Without farm bots, for "normal" players is impossible to have all unlocks.
Even with farm bots it takes forever...
The person responsible for testing "experience points for unlocks" never again should deal with testing like this.
Inexperienced players gain very little points, for them every unlock is a frucking hard work!
So I can understund why they give up, they give up becouse LV up in RO2 is not funny.
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In a perfect world, the devs might realize this and throw out stats buffs and unlocks, leaving only cosmetic progression and honor level.
Unfortunately, I sincerely doubt that given the time Tripwire spent on unlocks and given the players that like their shiny new experimental weapons, they'll choose to take the progression system out of the game.
The only reason I care is that eventually more and more players are going to resort to bot farming, which means we'll see more and more MP40/IIs, dual-drum MG34s, fully auto C96s, and scoped and bayo-mounted Mkbs and AVTs at a faster rate than we really should. Need I mention that these weapons will all have 20% more ammunition, 20% less sway, 20% more recoil control...? I honestly am not working towards any more unlocks personally--my drum mag and bayonets for the bolt-actions and SVT are enough, thanks. In fact, I'm avoiding the MP40 and MG34 because I DON'T wan't to unlock their experimental versions.
My hope is that a new realism mode will get rid of these unlocks and the stat buffs (progression could still be enabled to allow honor, cosmetic and class leveling). But even though I will be populating the realism servers exclusively, the problem will still exist for those playing on custom or relaxed realism servers.
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Bot should be removed from stat progression only if they lower the amount of kills for upgrading weapons.
I'm sorry but 6,000 kills to get ONE level 50 weapon is obscene. It took me forever to get my MG34 to lvl 50 and I honestly don't feel like playing this game much afterwards. It took me about 100 hours to get it. Now that I have the weapon I wanted I find bots very annoying and ruin the game for me. Once I got what I wanted from them they drive me insane with their stupid behavior.
I'm sorry but 6,000 kills to get ONE level 50 weapon is obscene. It took me forever to get my MG34 to lvl 50 and I honestly don't feel like playing this game much afterwards. It took me about 100 hours to get it. Now that I have the weapon I wanted I find bots very annoying and ruin the game for me. Once I got what I wanted from them they drive me insane with their stupid behavior.
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also I think maybes they thought if players are in half empty servers, and they kill a bot, then they deserve the stats for that bot kill, as it isn't there fault that they killed a bot due to the server needing them for survival.
And I totally agree, if they remove stat progression for bots they need to lower the amount of kill points needed. I played mw3 for less time than ro2 and have unlocked everything in not much time at all. This is the thing about cods stat progression, it really doesn't take long and it is really easy to get - so you do not really care about it so much. You can also use classes with weapons you haven't unlocked yet from the start, so even at level 1 you are not at a disadvantage due to stats, only from playing experience. In ro2 you are at a disadvantage for much much longer, also I feel it kinda forces you into a class, if you have levelled the mp40 and assault, you probs not gonna wanna pick something else cos you think you will be at a disadvantage.
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6000 kills or 6000 kill points? (3000 kills is still a lot)
For something exceedingly rare like the Mkb scope, 3000 kills isn't enough. For something like the MG34 belt, it's far too much given that any Wehrmacht supply depot would have 50-round belts of ammunition you could link together to form a longer belt in mere seconds. For something like PPSh select fire, which was present on EVERY SINGLE STANDARD ISSUED PPSH IN STALINGRAD, 3000 kills is absolutely rediculous.
I agree that the number of kills required for CERTAIN upgrades is excessive (or not excessive enough) and could use tweaking, but I still maintain that players shouldn't be able to earn their super 1337 weapons mowing down bots in bot-dominated servers. If they want that Level 50 Mkb, they should at least have to face me like a man in a real server to get it instead of shooting bots in a barrel.
As for half-empty servers, some servers currently blatantly advertise that they are "Easy Leveling" or "40 Recruit Difficulity Bots." If this were not the case, I might be more sympathetic. As the game is currently, improving the player count should be done with gameplay changes, optimization, and bug fixes--not by bribing the remaining players with free kills and weapons. Once player count is up, then the servers that deserve to be filled will be filled.
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I'm not kidding when I said 6000 kills. Granted I got some of them during the x4 kill modifier after the reset, and some during the x2. Still it took way too long, and I don't have the energy to unlock the PPSH selector switch or much less the DP28 that gives no upgrades at all. Why do you have to get 6000 kills with a DP if it gives you nothing but lowering the recoil which already is way too much. Also where is the DP selector switch? I thought it had one.
Spoiler!
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I feel like Jesse Ventura in the movie Predator with my 75 round drum MG34 on a bot server.........
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You're only treating the symptoms by doing this, you're not solving the problem. The problem is: Veteran players not only have a skill advantage over you, they have better equipment too. To match them, you must invest hundreds of hours into a game that treats you unfairly the whole time. The real solution is to remove the unlocks.
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Fighting bots is the only way to escape the auto dominated try-hard fest that is fighting other players. ;P
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First of all, I couldn't care less about stats, unlocks and achievements. None of that really matters to me. Of course, I would like to finally see the belt for the machinegunner. I have yet to see a player with this unlock.
I am pretty sure that TWI is now really working on a real realism mode without unlocks. And even if they don't, I am sure that servers will start running without unlocks, or maps will be created that only give standard equipment to the players. This is the game I want to play.
Any player who bot farmed can easily be recognized by their playing behavior. I felt surprised when I saw a Russian machine gunner on Pavlov's House, always hiding at the same place. He kept coming back to the very same spot over and over again. Bad for him, that bots seem to never use smoke.
And I have to admit that I played for about 2 hours on a bot server myself yesterday. I forgot the server name but when I initially entered, the reason was simple: it was the server with the best ping for me, plus 31 players on it. After 2-3 rounds, many guys left and we were mainly shooting bots. Without the bots, I would've left the server right away. The bots (and of course the other 10-15 players) kept me on for about 1 in the hopes that the server will fill up again. Wrong...
I really really don't care about bots and bot farming. If somebody's goal in life is to be the first one with honor lvl 100 or with the MG ammo belt then so be it.
The failure is not lying in bot farming. The failure is in the system of unlocks. Pavlov told us a lot about classical conditioning and the very same behaviour is the one you see when people do bot farming. No harm done to me, so I don't care. Plus, hopefully sooner than later, we will finally be able to enjoy the game without any unlocks, stats and progression.
PS: One thing that freaks me off however is the server filter. I think we all want that option in the server filter, where you can select to only see servers WITHOUT bots on them...
I am pretty sure that TWI is now really working on a real realism mode without unlocks. And even if they don't, I am sure that servers will start running without unlocks, or maps will be created that only give standard equipment to the players. This is the game I want to play.
Any player who bot farmed can easily be recognized by their playing behavior. I felt surprised when I saw a Russian machine gunner on Pavlov's House, always hiding at the same place. He kept coming back to the very same spot over and over again. Bad for him, that bots seem to never use smoke.
And I have to admit that I played for about 2 hours on a bot server myself yesterday. I forgot the server name but when I initially entered, the reason was simple: it was the server with the best ping for me, plus 31 players on it. After 2-3 rounds, many guys left and we were mainly shooting bots. Without the bots, I would've left the server right away. The bots (and of course the other 10-15 players) kept me on for about 1 in the hopes that the server will fill up again. Wrong...
I really really don't care about bots and bot farming. If somebody's goal in life is to be the first one with honor lvl 100 or with the MG ammo belt then so be it.
The failure is not lying in bot farming. The failure is in the system of unlocks. Pavlov told us a lot about classical conditioning and the very same behaviour is the one you see when people do bot farming. No harm done to me, so I don't care. Plus, hopefully sooner than later, we will finally be able to enjoy the game without any unlocks, stats and progression.
PS: One thing that freaks me off however is the server filter. I think we all want that option in the server filter, where you can select to only see servers WITHOUT bots on them...
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