I'm not sure how I would go messing about with the Skills of the Perk, except that giving Berzerker 200 health was probably a bad idea
Berzerker is OP now, so how do you want to fix it?
- Thread starter Deathgrip22
- Start date
Bring all other perks to the same level + Increase difficulty + lower skill floor granted by perks, passives and weapons but keep or increase the skill ceiling.
Pretty obvious
Seriously though, here are a few suggestions that might help pushing this direction:
1) Change medic -link (especially remove homing darts and make armor repair a heal-over-time effect)
2) Put a clause in all damage bonus skills of all perks. Stop the auto win.
Smash for example could be limited to up to 6 hits in a row and you have to take a break from alt. fire in order to regain "charges". (also adds a kind of ammo system to the zerker and punishes mindless torso-RMB mashing).
3) Let berserkers ranged weapons benefit from skills.
Bonus attack speed could increase rate of fire and / or weapon swap and / or reload speed. Bonus damage needs to apply to the other half of zerkers arsenal as well. I don't know why doesn't...
Pretty obvious
Seriously though, here are a few suggestions that might help pushing this direction:
1) Change medic -link (especially remove homing darts and make armor repair a heal-over-time effect)
2) Put a clause in all damage bonus skills of all perks. Stop the auto win.
Smash for example could be limited to up to 6 hits in a row and you have to take a break from alt. fire in order to regain "charges". (also adds a kind of ammo system to the zerker and punishes mindless torso-RMB mashing).
3) Let berserkers ranged weapons benefit from skills.
Bonus attack speed could increase rate of fire and / or weapon swap and / or reload speed. Bonus damage needs to apply to the other half of zerkers arsenal as well. I don't know why doesn't...
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I think the berserker is perfect the way it is now. The health upgrade was much needed. It's just fit that the tough melee fighter can take the most damage (hence his name berserker).
It's definitely not OP, I died several times when the double FPs ganked me, and seen other zerkers die.
The unparryable attacks + scrakes flying everywhere, changing direction mid-air really made melee combat risky.
It's definitely not OP, I died several times when the double FPs ganked me, and seen other zerkers die.
The unparryable attacks + scrakes flying everywhere, changing direction mid-air really made melee combat risky.
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What about his speed? He has high damage, high health, high speed.
What if he had just regular movement speed? That would be more in line with his new "Tank" role. Maybe even make him just slightly slower than normal speed.
Pretty sure most people think he is. I don't think that you can say that it's not just because you die sometimes when your getting double penetrated by fleshpounds
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Yeah the horridly slow weapon switch is the main reason the nailgun is just not worth bothering with.
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well actually he's the tank of the meta but to be honest he's main occupation is DEALING MASSIVE DAMAGE and the speed boost is a necessity when you are in the melee i think when the swat will come (a long time to wait before he show up i suppose) you could say he will become THE tank but for now the zerk need everything the perk allow him to have the 200 hp are not SO much when you see the damage taken in HoE so yeah he might seem op paired with a medic ... but a heal and a tank are supposed to work that way and even like that i see some zerk dying because the damage they take are far bigger than what the medic heal.
so maybe you complain about the tactic of 2 zerk sitting in a "1 way in" spot but that's a tactic and it's suppose to use everything we got even bugged AI. OR maybe you never play anything over the suicidal or on HoE. right now the only thing the zerk can do is to do his job, meaning blocking a way, killing stuff wihtout dying too fast, and dealing damage (that might be a bit too high when i see the result of the damage at the end of a wave), and taking the heavy hit from the big one !
so maybe you complain about the tactic of 2 zerk sitting in a "1 way in" spot but that's a tactic and it's suppose to use everything we got even bugged AI. OR maybe you never play anything over the suicidal or on HoE. right now the only thing the zerk can do is to do his job, meaning blocking a way, killing stuff wihtout dying too fast, and dealing damage (that might be a bit too high when i see the result of the damage at the end of a wave), and taking the heavy hit from the big one !
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When writing these posts you have to be specific. What difficulty are you talking about? What level zerker are you talking about? How many players in-game (zed health scaling)? Map(s), if any in particular affect your argument? Are you talking about pub players or team players, returning KF1 veterans or new players? Etc. You have to remember that the devs are balancing classes for more than one difficulty level or class level. What might feel OP to you could be just right or sorely lacking in another setting.
I recently maxed out my zerker class to 25 after playing pretty much exclusively on hard servers, long games. I will say it feels like a very powerful class in the setting I've been using it. That said, I do not believe zerker is OP. I cannot just stomp over Scrakes. They're still dangerous. If I miss too many parries or get caught by more than one, I can die. Fast. Scrakes are not overly difficult to beat, but there is still a huge danger factor present if you approach them in the wrong way.
Husks, sirens, and bloats are still credible threats given the zerker's lack of precision ranged attacks. Crawlers are annoying to deal with. Stalkers are as well. A competent player can counter or power through all that, but most pub players (which are a majority of the people playing the class) are not capable of it even with the class's recent buffs.
Fleshpounds, interestingly enough, are a different story. Mostly I straight-up manfight Fleshpounds (i.e. trade blows without bothering to parry) because I can get away with it. This is not because of the zerker's strength, but rather because of a strange problem I've been noticing with FPs (on hard, at least) where if you crowd them or position them in a certain way, they bug out and go idle. You can get in a lot of free shots when they do this, and it only takes 5 heavy swings from the pulv to drop one in a six-player game.
I have not yet tried my maxed zerker class on normal, nor do I see the point in ever doing so. In that setting (i.e. maxed zerker on easiest difficulty), the class would definitely be OP. However, I also have not tried zerker on Suicidal or HoE. I suspect that it will still be very powerful on those difficulties, but also very vulnerable to being overrun without proper support (a medic to heal or a commando to kill sirens/bloats/husks, etc.). It would be a glass cannon, if you will, and totally fair in my eyes.
Here is the bottom line for me when it comes to altering the zerker class further: I LOVE the way it feels when I play it. It feels good. I feel powerful when I swing my Zweihander. I enjoy the feeling of catching a horde of clots with my shovel. Pulverizer explosions in zed time make me happy I bought this game. I also like how 200 health doesn't save me from death if I'm not careful. I have to pick my fights. Two scrakes with four sirens behind them and a horde of clots? Can't power my way through that. Two husks taking up their shooting stance with me not close enough to kill them? Better dodge/take cover before running them down.
What most people forget when complaining about the zerker is that the zeds don't have to kill you to beat you. They just have to get your health low enough that you start running more slowly. For a zerker, movement speed is life. Losing speed is death. The extra 100 health doesn't help all that much in this regard, because the movement penalties for losing health are based on a percentage, not aggregate health remaining. Zerkers are plenty vulnerable without any additional nerfs. If you don't think so, you not playing on a high enough difficulty or else you're not taking into consideration that other players are not as good as yourself. I could understand some tinkering with the zerker's stat bonuses (seriously, the attack damage modifiers get insane by lv. 25) but I really hope TW doesn't change the class too much if at all.
I recently maxed out my zerker class to 25 after playing pretty much exclusively on hard servers, long games. I will say it feels like a very powerful class in the setting I've been using it. That said, I do not believe zerker is OP. I cannot just stomp over Scrakes. They're still dangerous. If I miss too many parries or get caught by more than one, I can die. Fast. Scrakes are not overly difficult to beat, but there is still a huge danger factor present if you approach them in the wrong way.
Husks, sirens, and bloats are still credible threats given the zerker's lack of precision ranged attacks. Crawlers are annoying to deal with. Stalkers are as well. A competent player can counter or power through all that, but most pub players (which are a majority of the people playing the class) are not capable of it even with the class's recent buffs.
Fleshpounds, interestingly enough, are a different story. Mostly I straight-up manfight Fleshpounds (i.e. trade blows without bothering to parry) because I can get away with it. This is not because of the zerker's strength, but rather because of a strange problem I've been noticing with FPs (on hard, at least) where if you crowd them or position them in a certain way, they bug out and go idle. You can get in a lot of free shots when they do this, and it only takes 5 heavy swings from the pulv to drop one in a six-player game.
I have not yet tried my maxed zerker class on normal, nor do I see the point in ever doing so. In that setting (i.e. maxed zerker on easiest difficulty), the class would definitely be OP. However, I also have not tried zerker on Suicidal or HoE. I suspect that it will still be very powerful on those difficulties, but also very vulnerable to being overrun without proper support (a medic to heal or a commando to kill sirens/bloats/husks, etc.). It would be a glass cannon, if you will, and totally fair in my eyes.
Here is the bottom line for me when it comes to altering the zerker class further: I LOVE the way it feels when I play it. It feels good. I feel powerful when I swing my Zweihander. I enjoy the feeling of catching a horde of clots with my shovel. Pulverizer explosions in zed time make me happy I bought this game. I also like how 200 health doesn't save me from death if I'm not careful. I have to pick my fights. Two scrakes with four sirens behind them and a horde of clots? Can't power my way through that. Two husks taking up their shooting stance with me not close enough to kill them? Better dodge/take cover before running them down.
What most people forget when complaining about the zerker is that the zeds don't have to kill you to beat you. They just have to get your health low enough that you start running more slowly. For a zerker, movement speed is life. Losing speed is death. The extra 100 health doesn't help all that much in this regard, because the movement penalties for losing health are based on a percentage, not aggregate health remaining. Zerkers are plenty vulnerable without any additional nerfs. If you don't think so, you not playing on a high enough difficulty or else you're not taking into consideration that other players are not as good as yourself. I could understand some tinkering with the zerker's stat bonuses (seriously, the attack damage modifiers get insane by lv. 25) but I really hope TW doesn't change the class too much if at all.
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We dont need tanks in this game at all. I dont want this to turn into RPG BS with autoheal-buttonsmashing and ridiculous damage sucking. This is the situation now. More skill with hitting-distance managing and dodging.
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It'd rather rate it moderate damage but it's a bit easier to apply than usual.
Speed is definitely required for melee. Good footwork makes a good zerker. No speed bonus means you take damage for every hit you dish out which makes soloplay/playing without medic outright impossible.
Bonus health is required too and not really overpowered either. Even with 200 health + 100 armor a group of crawlers and stalkers can kill you within a couple of seconds. What makes many zerkers overly durable is the instant 100% successrate armor heal and the combined abuse of zed pathing and aggro prorities in chokepoints.
I don't know about the original mod but man you're over half a decade late with that complaint.
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I've found it balances out a little better in suicidal/HoE.
Normal and hard with a level 25 berserk is just easy.
Normal and hard with a level 25 berserk is just easy.
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Honestly, the big issue with the berserker before the change was his skills. He was honestly fine otherwise.
The health he had definitely made him squishy, but good berserker players still wouldn't die easily. It took more skill *gasp* to survive as a berserker before. The hp steal skill was a good idea, but 200 hp is a bit much. To say berserker dies quickly against a scrake if he screws up a parry or something, well imagine how quickly other perks die then when they have no parry to screw up.
This is how I'm imagining the tactics with the perks currently: Berserker can solo scrakes and fleshpounds (let alone a wave), while all other perks have to use teamwork to kill them. If that isn't OP, then I don't know what is.
A little off topic: If people start dieing and it gets down to 2 players, they are typically berserker and medic. I think a large part of this is their increased movement speed (seriously, that movement speed helps so much). I think it would be interesting to either increase every perks sprint speed up to be with the berserker and medic, or change berserker and medic movement speed to only increase their sprint speed.
EDIT: I'm mainly a suicidal player.
The health he had definitely made him squishy, but good berserker players still wouldn't die easily. It took more skill *gasp* to survive as a berserker before. The hp steal skill was a good idea, but 200 hp is a bit much. To say berserker dies quickly against a scrake if he screws up a parry or something, well imagine how quickly other perks die then when they have no parry to screw up.
This is how I'm imagining the tactics with the perks currently: Berserker can solo scrakes and fleshpounds (let alone a wave), while all other perks have to use teamwork to kill them. If that isn't OP, then I don't know what is.
A little off topic: If people start dieing and it gets down to 2 players, they are typically berserker and medic. I think a large part of this is their increased movement speed (seriously, that movement speed helps so much). I think it would be interesting to either increase every perks sprint speed up to be with the berserker and medic, or change berserker and medic movement speed to only increase their sprint speed.
EDIT: I'm mainly a suicidal player.
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You probably have to hit the 3rd armpit on it's left side (your right side) at the exact moment it went 187 degrees through it's aerial spin attack.
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Hp looks good on paper but it's his 25% DR that makes his durabilty over the top. Reduced damage is enough that the heal rate of darts can outpace most damage being sustained. Then factor in that DR affects armor as well. How they went from 5% to 25% along with the hp boost is beyond me.
I'd lower Damage Resist to 15% and have it only apply to zed melee attacks, not stacking with siren/bloat resistance and not applicable at all to husk fire or Hans nades/gas/gunfire. Zerk would both inflict and resist most damage at melee range.
I'd lower Damage Resist to 15% and have it only apply to zed melee attacks, not stacking with siren/bloat resistance and not applicable at all to husk fire or Hans nades/gas/gunfire. Zerk would both inflict and resist most damage at melee range.
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I don't think there is anything wrong with a class forced to go into melee range to do most of its damage being a bit more powerful than classes that boost ranged damage.
If medic is keeping Berserker invincible, that's kind of the point of medic.
If medic is keeping Berserker invincible, that's kind of the point of medic.
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I don't think anyone will reasonably argue against that point. It is how much more powerful it should be that the community is split on.
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