Gunslinger Perk - Yes or No?

[HaTeMe]

i voted yes, but i think the gunslinger should be limited to pistols only and have less carry weight.. (ballanced out by letting him carry more pistols)

Well, if a single handcannon weights as much as dual wields (which makes no sense), I guess he could have less carrying weight but still could carry multiple types of pistols. So if I remember correctly HC is 4 blocks, and dual pistols is 4 blocks, it would be 8 blocks. Then add eg. a magnum weighting 4 blocks to that and limit the carrying weight to 12. Then he would be able to carry 3 types of pistols but nothing else basically (except that magum is a revolver but yeah). Simpul, no? Or if they were to implement glock and magnum he could carry dual glocks instead of handcannons or instead of magnum.

Might want to give him increased ammo capacity on dual handcannons tho? I mean, if magnum had very limited ammo to balance it out, youd prolly run out very quickly. Or I dont know, 9mm pistols have pretty much ammo..

Btw 17 pages O_O

 

[robdude19]

I agree he should get some extra ammo reserve, but not for 9mm since you have a lot already.

i voted yes, but i think the gunslinger should be limited to pistols only and have less carry weight.. (ballanced out by letting him carry more pistols)

Did you mean he should only be able to carry pistols? If so, that wouldn't be fair since the other perks can carry anything. The lack of perk boost is a deterrent to use non-perk weapons, but you should still have the option. Also it wouldn't be fair to have less carry weight. The GS perk would have the advantage of extra free space when fully armed, similar to a high-lvl Support.
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[HaTeMe]

The GS perk would have the advantage of extra free space when fully armed, similar to a high-lvl Support.
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Why would he need that extra space? If you want to get a sh1tload of weapons you can always choose support. If you dont even want to use pistols then dont use the Gunslinger perk, right?

 

[Madhate969]

I have to agree, no reason to be able to carry extra weight, Since he is using these light guns I would be ok using the weight to balance him, cut down max carring to 10 or 12.
The reasoning being that since he is the Zed ninja he has to be able to move quickly and carrying less weight would help explain it. We could limit his armor to 50, to explain his zed speed, but I think that would kill the GS too often

 

[robdude19]

The zerk is the zed ninja. With a full load (dual 9mm's + HC's + S&W 500) the Gunslinger's weight would be 1 + 4 + 4 + 5 = 14. Assuming the S&W would weigh slightly more than the HC, he wouldn't be able to carry anything else except a pipe bomb, so he should have the normal 15 carry slots.

 

[Undedd Jester]

The zerk is the zed ninja. With a full load (dual 9mm's + HC's + S&W 500) the Gunslinger's weight would be 1 + 4 + 4 + 5 = 14. Assuming the S&W would weigh slightly more than the HC, he wouldn't be able to carry anything else except a pipe bomb, so he should have the normal 15 carry slots.

Should he really be able to carry his entire load out though? Then agian I suppose the Demo does.

 

[sir_firebrand]

My Gunslinger Perk Idea



2 New weapons:

Magnum - A really powerfull revolver using the monstrous .500 caliber. Really high damage, but packed with a small capacity and a huge recoil.

Glock - A automatic pistol with a 20 shoots 9mm clip. Usefull to clean a path or dispath a group of weak enemies. But its precision is terrible, so stay close.

New ability:

Increased zedtime - When a zedtime is increased the gunslinger damage receives a booster dealing a enormous amount of damage while in zedtime.

Gameplay:

Some weapons are the same of a Sharpshooter, but the game play is different, the Sharpshooter usually stays in the backline, but the gunslinger need to be close to a group of enemies to be efficient.

In a normal gameplay he is a good class, not bad, but a little bit weak, but in a zedtime he deals damage enough to kill some big guys without problem.

My idea of a Gunslinger progression ladder:

Maybe a little bit unbalanced, but an idea of how a gunslinger should work:

Requirements

Lv 0 --
Lv 1 30 Zedtime kills with 9mm, Handcannon, Magnum or Glock
Lv 2100 Zedtime kills with 9mm, Handcannon, Magnum or Glock
Lv 3 700 Zedtime kills with 9mm, Handcannon, Magnum or Glock
Lv 4 2500 Zedtime kills with 9mm, Handcannon, Magnum or Glock
Lv 5 5500 Zedtime kills with 9mm, Handcannon, Magnum or GlockLv 6 8500 Zedtime kills with 9mm, Handcannon, Magnum or Glock

9mm, Handcannon, Magnum and Glock damage

Lv 0 5% higher
Lv 1 10% higher
Lv 2 20% higher
Lv 3 30% higher
Lv 4 30% higher
Lv 5 50% higher
Lv 6 60% higher

Headshot damage

Lv 0 5% higher
Lv 1 10% higher
Lv 2 20% higher
Lv 3 20% higher
Lv 4 40% higher
Lv 5 50% higher
Lv 6 60% higher

9mm, Handcannon, Magnum and Glock recoil

Lv 0 --
Lv 1 25% less
Lv 2 35% less
Lv 3 55% less
Lv 4 65% less
Lv 5 75% less
Lv 6 85% less

9mm, Handcannon, Magnum and Glock reloading

Lv 0 --
Lv 1 10% faster
Lv 2 20% faster
Lv 3 30% faster
Lv 4 40% faster
Lv 5 50% faster
Lv 6 60% faster

Handcannon, Magnum and Glock discount

Lv 0 5% discount
Lv 1 10% discount
Lv 2 20% discount
Lv 3 30% discount
Lv 4 40% discount
Lv 5 50% discount and Spawn with Dual 9mm
Lv 6 60% discount and Spawn with Dual Handcannon.

Zedtime duration

Lv 0 --
Lv 1 10% longer
Lv 2 15% longer
Lv 3 25% longer
Lv 4 35% longer
Lv 5 45% longer
Lv 6 60% longer

Zedtime damage

Lv 0 10% Higher
Lv 1 20% higher
Lv 2 30% higher
Lv 3 40% higher
Lv 4 50% Higher
Lv 5 60% Higher
Lv 6 70% Higher

I've made some calcs to see if this class could survive in killing floor, the gunslinger can takeoff any enemy other than the Scrake or Fleshpound. In zed time he could takeoff a scrake or a Fleshpound in a medium range. Maybe with the magnums the things get better.

 

[MrGuidous]

it would be sooo much overpowered if they consider the headshot damage bonus, it could be removed...

 

[Infern0]

This is what we got after six pages of wondering what could be implemented had TWI decided to make a pistol-based perk.
The original thread can be found here

Gunslinger Perk
(I personally think it sounds way cooler and better than "pistoleer" :|)

Possible icon sketches:

• Number 1
• Number 2

Weapons: Handguns, both single and akimbo.

• T1 weapon: 9mm
• T2 weapon: Handcannon
• T3 weapon: Powerful-hitter Revolver

Bonuses:

• "Standard" bonuses (higher damage, faster reload, less recoil...);
• Alt-fire switches between akimbo and single wielding (depends on how simple it is to code this);
• Can carry more ammo for handguns;
• Increased ZEDtime chance (not to ridiculous proportions, though);
• Higher damage during ZEDtime.

Purpose:

• Versatility-based perk. Weapons that can do anything, from dealing low damage to a high number of zeds, to dealing a lot of damage to a single zed.

Leveling:

• Level by dealing damage, and/or;
• Killing Zeds during ZED-time with handguns.

Credits go to the Original Poster, Reise, and many other players who suggested stuff to the perk.

How interesting, I posted this same idea for a new perk but on the steam forums.

Red - A new perk called "Outlaw" for outlaw you will be proficient in handguns. The top notch guns are Uzi and dual weilding Uzi. Each uzi would have basically the same rate of fire as the medic gun, however there is a bigger clip and having dual Uzi will be very strong.

 

[Neoco]

I only read till page 8 so if I missed any posts between there and this page please quote it.

From what I've read, I'll say this. Please, please, don't make gunslinger, if it is ever created, a versatile all-round perk!!! I've stated in a previous post that doing this will make the perk overpowered. None of the other perks are versatile and each and every one of them has their own weaknesses. Here, I'll point them out:

Field Medic - Basically weaponless, no weapon perks

Support Specialist - Has trouble dealing with crowds, specimens that are far away, uses weapons with long reloads

Sharpshooter - Doesn't do well against crowds.

Commando - Doesn't have the firepower to deal with strong units (eg. fleshpound)

Berserker - Very vulnerable to damage since most of his combat is melee

Firebug - Same as Commando

Demolitions - Poor performance in CQC (close quarter combat)

As you can see each perk has its weaknesses and as a result the perks have to rely on each other to cover up their weak spots. If the Gunslinger perk is added while it is so versatile, powerful and all-round, it will completely destroy the way the perks are played. Nobody will want to play any of the seven perks anymore, everyone will want to play Gunslinger because there is basically no obstacle to create problems for that perk.

And I would like to go all the way back to where this thread began. From everything I've read I feel that this perk was only created to balance SS. An entire new perk is not needed to balance SS!!! It's the pistols that's making SS unbalanced right? All that is needed is for someone to say "The pistols are making SS unbalanced, please take the pistol perk effects off SS". Poof, there, the SS perk is now balanced and I did that with out even mentioning the Gunslinger perk. The balancing of SS doesn't require the creation of a completely unnecessary perk and creating an entire new perk would just be too much work don't you think?

 

[Madhate969]

My Gunslinger Perk Idea




Glock - A automatic pistol with a 20 shoots 9mm clip. Usefull to clean a path or dispath a group of weak enemies. But its precision is terrible, so stay close.


Headshot damage

Lv 0 5% higher
Lv 1 10% higher
Lv 2 20% higher
Lv 3 20% higher
Lv 4 40% higher
Lv 5 50% higher
Lv 6 60% higher

These 2 things I don't think we need. We need 1 new gun, I think 2 are excessive, I like them, but can't say the perk would need them.

And I think the head shot damage would push this perk into where the SS is.

I think otherwise this progression is very nice. It lets the GS be a ninja during Zed time, but the rest of the time , its a guy usings pistols, which aren't powerful enough to steal the show. Someone had mentioned that since the GS is useful due to his focus (Zed time dmg boost), he should have reduces, siren and or stalker screen effects. If people think that taking the headshot damage pushes the GS too far into weakness

 

[Colt .45 killer]

I only read till page 8 so if I missed any posts between there and this page please quote it.

From what I've read, I'll say this. Please, please, don't make gunslinger, if it is ever created, a versatile all-round perk!!! I've stated in a previous post that doing this will make the perk overpowered. None of the other perks are versatile and each and every one of them has their own weaknesses. Here, I'll point them out:

Field Medic - Basically weaponless, no weapon perks

Support Specialist - Has trouble dealing with crowds, specimens that are far away, uses weapons with long reloads

Sharpshooter - Doesn't do well against crowds.

Commando - Doesn't have the firepower to deal with strong units (eg. fleshpound)

Berserker - Very vulnerable to damage since most of his combat is melee

Firebug - Same as Commando

Demolitions - Poor performance in CQC (close quarter combat)

As you can see each perk has its weaknesses and as a result the perks have to rely on each other to cover up their weak spots. If the Gunslinger perk is added while it is so versatile, powerful and all-round, it will completely destroy the way the perks are played. Nobody will want to play any of the seven perks anymore, everyone will want to play Gunslinger because there is basically no obstacle to create problems for that perk.

And I would like to go all the way back to where this thread began. From everything I've read I feel that this perk was only created to balance SS. An entire new perk is not needed to balance SS!!! It's the pistols that's making SS unbalanced right? All that is needed is for someone to say "The pistols are making SS unbalanced, please take the pistol perk effects off SS". Poof, there, the SS perk is now balanced and I did that with out even mentioning the Gunslinger perk. The balancing of SS doesn't require the creation of a completely unnecessary perk and creating an entire new perk would just be too much work don't you think?

All good points, and your quite right; if TWI were to blindly implement all things asked for im sure the gunslinger would also **** golden bricks worth 1000 pounds.
Many people have been running away with this idea, at its heart is supposed to be the only other faster moving class in the game, he carries less, somewhere in the region of 4-6 pistols; and is PREVENTED from carrying anything other then pistols (I say that because he does as you pointed out need limitations). He is a fast mover who can fire a large quantity of ammo, and should get small if any reload bonuses, his specialty is the extra damage during zed time( which makes him a GREAT combo with a commando). as to headshot damage, feck no, that is the suggestion of a few jerkoffs who know the sharpie will be nerfed and want this new kickass class to be their non skill replacement.


oh and btw for your sharpie weakness, no the sharpie is plenty fine against crowds, m14 with dot and some spam, and its better then the support. (based on my own tests on servers with modified max zombie counts and an acid test to see how long i can survive with any class on hard difficulty; result, sharpie wins ...)

 

[Neoco]

oh and btw for your sharpie weakness, no the sharpie is plenty fine against crowds, m14 with dot and some spam, and its better then the support. (based on my own tests on servers with modified max zombie counts and an acid test to see how long i can survive with any class on hard difficulty; result, sharpie wins ...)

Well, I had trouble dealing with crowds on WestLondon. I was playing Sharpshooter level 5 on a hard, long game, solo. And I died because crowds of specimens overran me.

But thanks for agreeing with me

 

[HaTeMe]

Requirements

Lv 0 --
Lv 1 30 Zedtime kills with 9mm, Handcannon, Magnum or Glock
Lv 2100 Zedtime kills with 9mm, Handcannon, Magnum or Glock
Lv 3 700 Zedtime kills with 9mm, Handcannon, Magnum or Glock
Lv 4 2500 Zedtime kills with 9mm, Handcannon, Magnum or Glock
Lv 5 5500 Zedtime kills with 9mm, Handcannon, Magnum or GlockLv 6 8500 Zedtime kills with 9mm, Handcannon, Magnum or Glock

Headshot damage

Lv 0 5% higher
Lv 1 10% higher
Lv 2 20% higher
Lv 3 20% higher
Lv 4 40% higher
Lv 5 50% higher
Lv 6 60% higher

First of all, 5500 zedtime kills? That would take ages and be very frustrating since zedtime triggers pretty much randomly.

Secondly, NO to headshot damage boost, this perk is not SS and therefor shouldnt get damage boost for headshots. I suggested it should have some sort of wounding ability from bodyshots (hitting important organs etc) causing specimen to bleed, but nobody commented so I dunno.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

Well, I had trouble dealing with crowds on WestLondon. I was playing Sharpshooter level 5 on a hard, long game, solo. And I died because crowds of specimens overran me.

But thanks for agreeing with me

mm yeah, its all about proper use of the m14 (click-like-a-mafakca), and the occasional use of the dual hc's. at level 6 your reloads are so fast that you can practically put out an endless stream of 7.62 mm ammo...


edit: @ hateme : well the commando has to kill F* stalkers, so why not make another perk that is hard to level, unlike the demo perk which i got to level 6 from level 3 in under 2 hours....; however yes, feck the stupid headshot damage boost, that is once again the cry of people who want another overpowered *** kicking machine class to play ....

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

unlike the demo perk which i got to level 6 from level 3 in under 2 hours....;

muaahahahaa concerthall/poundamonium strikes again! just guessing.

if the gunslinger needed a specific speciman to kill, like commando with stalkers, perhaps the gunslinger would have to target sirens or maybe husks? i personally like the requirements for perks that actually make you work to level up since you can't use a mutator for loads of damage or headshots. the day i got commando up to level6 from those bloody stalkers was much more enjoyable then taking a week leveling the demo with tons of pipebombs and grenades. helps set guidelines for prioritizing targets for each class.

 

[Madhate969]

i personally like the requirements for perks that actually make you work to level up since you can't use a mutator for loads of damage or headshots. helps set guidelines for prioritizing targets for each class.

I think this is a great Idea to add a speciman kill requirement to all perks, and to unwhitelist the mutators

SS - FP
FB - Crawlers
Zerker - Scrake (can add chainsaw resistance to help)
Demo - clots (with an excessive number required, about 3 to 4 times as many as commando stalkers)
Commando - Stalkers
Support - Gorefest
GS - Sirens

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

yeah i like it too. it teaches players to prioritize targets based on the class they use. some players just do it by nature, but many ignore it. i have to say the only class that currently "teaches" the role of the perk is the commando. even though people see it as a grind to kill all those stalkers, people trying to level are going to focus on killing stalkers so they can level. in return, they kill stalkers and they do their job.

all about the game guiding the player. you just have to design the system so that people don't realize they are getting an education but are just thinking that they are going for achievements/perks and simply having fun.

 

[HaTeMe]

edit: @ hateme : well the commando has to kill F* stalkers, so why not make another perk that is hard to level, unlike the demo perk which i got to level 6 from level 3 in under 2 hours....; however yes, feck the stupid headshot damage boost, that is once again the cry of people who want another overpowered *** kicking machine class to play ....

Im all up for zedtime kills but it should be less than 5500, because zedtimes are triggered pretty randomly so it would be all about luck wether you level up or not, dont you think? Or I dunno its hard to say without actually testing it out. But I suppose TWI can figure out a rather balanced number there.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

Im all up for zedtime kills but it should be less than 5500, because zedtimes are triggered pretty randomly so it would be all about luck wether you level up or not, dont you think? Or I dunno its hard to say without actually testing it out. But I suppose TWI can figure out a rather balanced number there.

im not so sure, there are a few zed times every wave ( for me atleast ) and if the gunslinger can rack up 3 - 5 kills per zed time (lots more with a commando right next to him extending zed time), then he would be leveling no faster then a commando. perhaps there could also be the added bonus that a gunslinger is more likely to trigger zed time?