Level Design MN Gazala Line (Preview)
- Thread starter =GG= Mr Moe
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well if i have my figures right in RO an UU (Unreal Unit) will represent about 1.66 cm in game because 60.352 UUs works out to be the equivent of 1 meter - so divide these distance fog end figures by 6O - odd to find the view distance to the fog's end (after which nothing is rendered) in meters.
Interestingly - i think unreal engine renders in cubes from the player- this would explain why you can see something at a distance at the edge of the screen but when you turn to face it is disappears - the distance to the corners of your 'box' is greater then the line that cuts the face of the box ahead of you perpendicularly.
edit - ^ oh right oops i got up for dinner came back and posted
Interestingly - i think unreal engine renders in cubes from the player- this would explain why you can see something at a distance at the edge of the screen but when you turn to face it is disappears - the distance to the corners of your 'box' is greater then the line that cuts the face of the box ahead of you perpendicularly.
edit - ^ oh right oops i got up for dinner came back and posted
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I'm working on one with 4000m view distance
Joe maybe change that one rectangular constructed wall from the stacked rock texture to some sort of stucco covering? Or perhaps take off the sharp corners to make it look more as if it was built from rocks.
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UU is just Unreal Units. Unreal has its own basic unit of measurement which scales to 16UUs = 1-ft or ~0.3048-meters. At least 16:1 is what Jason Busby (et al) indicates in his book "Mastering Unreal Technology, The Art of Level Design". So 199608 ~4158yards or ~3.8Km.
The "End Fog" setting is -- as I recall -- the max distance you can see on level or more importantly it is the max distance stuff is rendered (subtle difference). Antiportals aside for a sec. "Fog" is perhaps a bit of a misnomer, but it provides the atmospheric setting on the level. Perhaps "Haze" is a better way to think of End Fog. Stuff gets grainier and grayer the further it is from a player as a result of the end fog setting.
As I understand it rendering of static meshes & BSP (trees, bushes, buildings, terrain) and such -- unless set to an individual cull distance in the actor properties -- will be rendered if it is within the end fog distance of the player charachter. Albeit a tree or a tank that is 70,000UUs away is tough to make out cause' there is a progressively increasing amount of "haze" between the player and the object. But this part of the reason why big maps with big end fog distance settings are so taxing on folks' systems and why some people have problems running Alte Ziegelei or the like.
Small infantry maps depicting urban environments or closed terrain settings -- for example April Showers -- can utilize very low end fog settings -- like 10,000 UUs or less. Small arms usually do most of their killing within 10 to 100-yards or less (snipers and coxial MGs aside).
On big tanks maps you normally want some level of long range direct fire capability. Particularly if you are trying to depict stand-off advantages of tanks like the Panther or IS2 or Tiger. "End fog" therefore needs to be big -- like 70,000(+) UUs. But this means stuff on the map way way out from a player's position is being rendered.
Don't quote me on any of this. This is just my own -- perhaps twisted -- understanding of how Unreal Maps work based upon reading various tutorials on the subject and experimenting with the like on the SDK Editor.
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Still working on it, listening to suggestions. Things just slowed down a bit because of the holiday 
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Looking forward to your progress! I was researching a gazala scenario over the summer, and I'm separated from my computer atm (for the holidays), but I'll definitely share any interesting photos/assets as I can.
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good luck with that - my experience from a couple of years ago was that such maps would either run or look very sh!t - and that was with distances less than 4000 back then.
I mean krivog was a way of showing that you could use the new long distances but you would be forced into a somewhat weird map layout if you want it to perform reasonably well.
However, I believe MN is the setting that will break that rule, for the aformentioned reasons concerning the region's typically barren natural enviroment - perfect for fast moving large scale tank battles.
This is one of the major potential reasons why MN could well end up being the tanker's mod of choice.
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I hear ya there! It is my hope the beer & pretzles late night tanking/CA crowd will give MN a closer look with more epic tank maps like the one Moe is making now.
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Still working on the optimization and the spawns. I finished the randomly spawning AT-guns and right now I am working on (ie: trying to figure out) a selective spawn system to choose where to spawn since it is a large map with some scattered objectives. For lack of a better description, similar to SchutzeSepp's system that he made for his DH maps, but obviously looking absolutely nothing like it (outdoors, etc).
Still a combined arms map with a tank-only version later. No ETA as of yet.
Some pics to soon follow...
Still a combined arms map with a tank-only version later. No ETA as of yet.
Some pics to soon follow...
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In the spawn area, they are just statics.
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might as well throw in some pics of some of the at guns positions...
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might as well throw in some pics of some of the at guns positions...
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try to give the terrain under objects a different look, either by terrain texture or grassy stuff (well, not really applicable for you). This goes also for the terrain around houses.
Without that objects always seem to float to me :/
Without that objects always seem to float to me :/
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Looks great Moe. You could prolly' add scrub and small rocks to accomplish the edge hide stuff.
I thought you might find this interesting. I was poking around on Google Earth and found Bir Hacheim -- southern end of the British Gazala Line.
Most of the big tank battles occured NE of Bir Hacheim -- in the "triangle" formed by Bir Hacheim-El Adem-KnightsBridge. Sort of intersting to snoop around on Google Earth as there is some pretty decent res coverage of this area.
I thought you might find this interesting. I was poking around on Google Earth and found Bir Hacheim -- southern end of the British Gazala Line.
Most of the big tank battles occured NE of Bir Hacheim -- in the "triangle" formed by Bir Hacheim-El Adem-KnightsBridge. Sort of intersting to snoop around on Google Earth as there is some pretty decent res coverage of this area.
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Actually downloaded Mare Nostrum last night and played online for the first time. Very nice work! I loved the level lighting and sky textures on some of the maps. I also loved the opening screen sequence with Lille Marlene.
Unfortunately there was only 4 or 5 of us playing at any one time, but the maps were good fun.
One of the maps uses what I assume is some sort of emitter to simulate blowing sand -- very kewl effect.
Definately need a big panzer map for Mare Nostrum -- or at least I didn't encounter any big tanks maps during my online play last night. Did play one map with a PzKw II that was really well done. I'd love to see Stuarts added to Mare Nostrum.
Are the PzKWIIIs in Mare Nostrum the short barrel 50mm -- or are they the PzKWIII J specials with the long 50mm?
Unfortunately there was only 4 or 5 of us playing at any one time, but the maps were good fun.
One of the maps uses what I assume is some sort of emitter to simulate blowing sand -- very kewl effect.
Definately need a big panzer map for Mare Nostrum -- or at least I didn't encounter any big tanks maps during my online play last night. Did play one map with a PzKw II that was really well done. I'd love to see Stuarts added to Mare Nostrum.
Are the PzKWIIIs in Mare Nostrum the short barrel 50mm -- or are they the PzKWIII J specials with the long 50mm?
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Just an aside regarding possible Orders of Battle options for big Gazala tank maps, but I was reading the new History of the 8th Panzer Regiment -- "Panzer Regiment 8 in WWII: Poland, France, North Africa" by Kevin Fish. New from Schiffer. An OK book with some interesting personal accounts from German Panzertruppen dudes that served with the 8th PzR. Anyway, Fish indicates that the 8th Panzer Regiment had two PzKwIV Specials during the Gazala Battles -- these would be the Long barrel 75mm equipped PzKwIVs. I guess F2 or G model MkIVs.
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