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New Perk: Ninja/Saboteur

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AlteredTomorrow

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Apr 19, 2010
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#1
I was looking over some of the suggested perks, and I was trying to think up something that would really be unique and different to play.

I came up with one that would either be called Ninja or Saboteur, as the thread suggests.

This perk would have no main weapons, and only use the knife. The knife would give bonus backstab damage on specimens when using this perk. I was thinking perhaps they could have throwing knives or something to that effect that cause bleed damage over time.

The perk would mainly focus on setting traps, I need more ideas for traps but I was thinking things like a "swinging branch" type trap that could be placed on corners. I wanted to avoid explosive traps, since that is something that Demolitions is supposed to focus on. Some people have wanted the oil that could be set on fire for the firebug perk, but I think it would be great if this perk had a tar or oil trap they could place somewhere that would spill the oil, specimens would be slowed while walking over it. Let the Firebug be able to set it on fire, causing extra damage to the slowed specimens, this would facilitate some teamwork. I was also considering something like a smoke bomb, that could be thrown down as a defensive strategy, it could disorient specimens in the immediate area and allow for a retreat. I'm sure some people can think up some more defensive maneuvers that could be used, I think this is important because this perk would need more things to do while actually in the action.

I haven't thought about what direct bonuses this perk should get, except that they should move very fast. They have no main weapons and their goal is to get around very quickly in order to place traps and get behind specimens. I was even considering not allowing them to have armor in an effort to balance them. Mainly this perk would be played in-between waves, since you have no main weapons or armor to buy, you spend the time finding strategic places to put traps. This of course would require your traps to just be restocked every wave, rather than making you buy them. Every increased perk level it could increase your max amount of traps able to be placed, which in turn would increase the amount you can carry.
 
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#2
We don't need gimmicky, fiddly ways to kill zeds when the current methods are much more efficient. Things like traps are better given to their respective classes (i.e. oil trap for Firebug) than introducing a new class which just plays support for other classes.

Which is better:

1) Two people capable of blowing the heads off any zeds they see.

2) One person capable of blowing the head off any zeds he sees, and another person laying traps and tossing knives so that those few zeds that walk through it get damaged very slowly before someone blows its head off?

As for the rest of the idea, Berserkers do a fine enough job throwing themselves in front of friendly fire, Demolitions do a fine enough job of laying down smokescreens to allow the zeds to advance, and any class that wants for "having something to do" is not going to be an effective class.
 
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#3
Man And A Half said:
We don't need gimmicky, fiddly ways to kill zeds when the current methods are much more efficient. Things like traps are better given to their respective classes (i.e. oil trap for Firebug) than introducing a new class which just plays support for other classes.
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So all the perks should be resigned to the same "efficient" forms of killing? I'm trying to think of things that would be different, people would enjoy playing a perk that handles itself differently than the others. The point isn't who can kill them the fastest, it's trying to find a fun and different way to do so.



( 2) One person capable of blowing the head off any zeds he sees, and another person laying traps and tossing knives so that those few zeds that walk through it get damaged very slowly before someone blows its head off?
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The point of the perk wouldn't be to kill things slowly with the throwing knives, that was just an idea for a weapon that could be unique to them. The bleeding damage would be more useful on larger zeds that are harder to take down, if that would be implemented at all. The point of the perk would basically act as a "debuffer" of sorts, allowing the various traps to apply adverse effects to zeds, then allowing others on the team to finish them off easier.

While you may be correct that they can't "blow the heads off" of zeds like every other perk. That is just the point, to give something different.

As for the rest of the idea, Berserkers do a fine enough job throwing themselves in front of friendly fire, Demolitions do a fine enough job of laying down smokescreens to allow the zeds to advance, and any class that wants for "having something to do" is not going to be an effective class.
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When did I say they would soak up damage? I said they couldn't even have armor so that would be a stupid idea.

Does the smoke from explosions affect the AI at all? I don't think so, so quite an irrelevant point.


In its current base-line idea form, it may lack for things to do. I wanted to see what other people may suggest.

It's currently pretty hard to think of original perk ideas since TWI has it pretty much covered, so I recognize your apprehension.
 
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#5
AlteredTomorrow said:
The point of the perk wouldn't be to kill things slowly with the throwing knives, that was just an idea for a weapon that could be unique to them. The bleeding damage would be more useful on larger zeds that are harder to take down
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No, that just pisses them off. The most useful way to take down larger zeds is very quickly using very big guns. Or a crossbow.

if that would be implemented at all. The point of the perk would basically act as a "debuffer" of sorts, allowing the various traps to apply adverse effects to zeds, then allowing others on the team to finish them off easier.
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Again we return to the point that it is still more useful to have two people shooting than one shooting and one laying gimmicky traps and putting himself in more danger.

While you may be correct that they can't "blow the heads off" of zeds like every other perk. That is just the point, to give something different.
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Different for the sake of being different. The class will see very little use if it's not effective.

When did I say they would soak up damage? I said they couldn't even have armor so that would be a stupid idea.
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I didn't say they would soak up damage, what I mean is that Berserkers block everyone's fire because they're in melee, and so would a "Ninja" class if he forced people to shoot around him, and forced demos to hold their fire altogether.

Does the smoke from explosions affect the AI at all? I don't think so, so quite an irrelevant point.
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Again you're completely missing the meaning - The game's thick white opaque smoke is impossible to see through, making it counterproductive to fire a grenade launcher at a FP (or lay a smoke trap as a defensive measure). If it's a swarm of small specimens, an explosive trap (i.e. pipebomb) is way more effective, as is a grenade launcher, or simply shooting them.
 
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#6
It is quite a good idea. However, it doesn't fit the zombie survival genre. Style, sadly, has no place here. If it were you there, fighting those zombies, would you rather decapitate them, or plant traps all around and hope they kill them?

Then again, it's a game. It's meant to not be realistic.

Plus, it seems to be rather complex to both set those traps, and to actually make them hit a zed.

That's without going through the complexity of implementing such features to the game. Think about it: It involves creating a new perk, adding a new type of weapon (traps), limiting such traps to the map geography (corner trap), a new projectile (throwing knives), modeling all those new stuff... It's too complex to code.

So, while it may be a fun way to do that, it is both not efficient and too complex to add.
 
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#7
brphoenix said:
It is quite a good idea. However, it doesn't fit the zombie survival genre. Style, sadly, has no place here. If it were you there, fighting those zombies, would you rather decapitate them, or plant traps all around and hope they kill them?

Then again, it's a game. It's meant to not be realistic.

Plus, it seems to be rather complex to both set those traps, and to actually make them hit a zed.

That's without going through the complexity of implementing such features to the game. Think about it: It involves creating a new perk, adding a new type of weapon (traps), limiting such traps to the map geography (corner trap), a new projectile (throwing knives), modeling all those new stuff... It's too complex to code.

So, while it may be a fun way to do that, it is both not efficient and too complex to add.
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I did think of the engine restraints, and it's probably why something like this isn't already in the game.

Guess I just need to learn that no one wants to accept new perks.
 
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#8
Sorry to double-post, but I didn't feel like waiting on the approval time, and I probably won't be checking back on this, since the point was just to put it in a place where TWI might see it.

In response to brphoenix:

There are a lot of things currently in KF that don't fit the "zombie survival horror" genre. You say style has no place here, yet you have the Gunslinger ad in your sig? It's pretty stylish to dual wield pistols and SMGs, (one of which is already in the game.) Also, you're able to purchase a katana and swing it around lopping heads off, how exactly is that realistic/fitting/unstylish?

Were I fighting zombies/mutants in real life, I would probably set traps and set up defensive barricades and what-not; getting close to them would be asking for death, not like I have the martial prowess to fight zombies in hand-to-hand combat. Like you said, though, it's a game, many things about it are already pretty unrealistic.
 
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#11
Honestly, it's really creative. However, as mentioned above, it doesn't fit the context of the game.

The setting traps dynamic is all about Demo and the running up to stab things function is taken care of by Berserker. (throwing knives and other longer range melee weapons have also been discussed for zerk)
 
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#12
AlteredTomorrow said:
I need more ideas for traps but I was thinking things like a "swinging branch" type trap that could be placed on corners.
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What xD? So something that swings off the corner and hits specimens in the face while they pass by xD, just to be annoying? Sounds like fun.

A more strategic perk would be fun but I dont know wether it fits in the game, not to mention it would hinder berserkers with his backstab ability.
 
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#13
It's a nice idea, I'll give you that! I actually like the ideas of having the 'traps' like smoke ,oil, etc but I don't think it would be a good idea having a perk solely revolved around the traps. Like, having extra money to set up these traps, which would kinda go hand in hand with the zerkers as they can move quickly.

Though....I still like the idea of sneaking up on specimens... :)
 
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#15
i think it would be annoying, the ninja or whatever dudes would be constantly going rambo, "hehehe i can plant traps over there and there" and the team is getting swarmed and theyre calling for help.

the backstab thing doesnt make sense, how would you backstab the specimens when they are coming at you? some crazy ninja animation like steven seagal?

i think were just making up nutty ideas now just to pass the time until the next update which isnt for months!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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#16
ive waited for an update for about 9 months lol xD! Or one that i like lol.

but i like the trap ideas, but since people only like >_> modern day stuffs and i wouldn't wanna use a branch as a possible weapon, im guessing most traps would have to be explosive to possibly cause damage, falling under the category of = demolition :/
Also if im correct ninjas used a ninjato not a knife :p
 
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#17
Why not just add claymores for the demolitions? Rather than doing a lot of damage to all specimen types in an area of effect like pipes, it could shoot sharpnel in a cone much like a blast from both barrels of the hunting shotgun. That would be a fun trap to place at the ends of hallways. Or maybe some of those Russian anti-personnel mines that are basically hand grenades that pop up into the air and detonate.
 
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#19
AlteredTomorrow said:
There are a lot of things currently in KF that don't fit the "zombie survival horror" genre. You say style has no place here, yet you have the Gunslinger ad in your sig? It's pretty stylish to dual wield pistols and SMGs, (one of which is already in the game.) Also, you're able to purchase a katana and swing it around lopping heads off, how exactly is that realistic/fitting/unstylish?
Click to expand...

You're right. People here don't like new perks. Before you leave, make sure to vote "NO" in the gunslinger thread.

kthxbai
 
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#20
AlteredTomorrow said:
There are a lot of things currently in KF that don't fit the "zombie survival horror" genre. You say style has no place here, yet you have the Gunslinger ad in your sig? It's pretty stylish to dual wield pistols and SMGs, (one of which is already in the game.) Also, you're able to purchase a katana and swing it around lopping heads off, how exactly is that realistic/fitting/unstylish?

Were I fighting zombies/mutants in real life, I would probably set traps and set up defensive barricades and what-not; getting close to them would be asking for death, not like I have the martial prowess to fight zombies in hand-to-hand combat. Like you said, though, it's a game, many things about it are already pretty unrealistic.
Click to expand...

For the underline part. That's why I said sadly on my post. I want to change that. A katana is stylish, but it's also one of the sharpest blades existing (usually). It's kind of a "middle ground". I say a 1000
 
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