ppsh40 vs ppsh41 vs ppsh43

41 is really good weapon, especially when iron sights, i manage to take out people from quite long distance with it, it is so good that i can take out snipers if i got a good hard point - nothing nicer than a sniper taken down from all across the map with one precise bullet in the head.

the key to this weapon is shooting in very short bursts - you can make many shots cause drum has plenty of ammo

and the sound - i love it when i fire that weapon.

40 is good aswell, especially for inexpereienced players or shooting when running - press firea and then jump out of the corner - kill guaranteed


43 - i used it very rarely, it has good aim but i think i must reload too often.

Nifel said:

PPS-43 as it is now, though I would go for the PPSh-41 in a heartbeat IF IT HAD REALISTIC RECOIL!

Click to expand...

All SMGs have excessive recoil IMO. SMG's are supposed to be "fire on the move weapons" not "OK, let me find a nice resting spot here so my SMG doesn't fly 5 feet in the air". TW could reduce the recoil to more sane levels and increase their bullet spread so they are only accurate out to a certain range and at further ranges they would basically be good for suppression only (hey just like RL!) In the mod you could "walk" your SMG rounds onto a target. In Ostfront don't even try it you'll just end up spraying rounds all over the place with near zero control. Right now I only use SMG's for 10 feet (or less) confrontations. You shouldn't have to rest SMGs for them to be effective.

Before reading this thread I just choose an smg randomly.
Now I actually try to decide which one will suit better.
I think recoil is right on. While crouching/prone, I have been able to kill
riflemen, that were shooting at me in the 30 - 50 meter ranges.
You just really have to fire short bursts when shooting at distances like that.
And in close range, all out works really well, just pull down with your mouse.

Bong said:

I think recoil is right on. While crouching/prone, I have been able to kill
riflemen, that were shooting at me in the 30 - 50 meter ranges.
You just really have to fire short bursts when shooting at distances like that.
And in close range, all out works really well, just pull down with your mouse.

Click to expand...

But the point is you shouldn't have to do all those things to get decent accuracy. You should be able to fire them from the hip while walking upright (on the move) and expect to be able to guide your rounds onto a target. Really if the recoil is right on like you say then I have to wonder why in the hell Germany & Russia even bothered making such useless devices for their soldiers. I've seen many videos of people firing SMG's and they usually "buck" initially BUT after that (once the person tenses up and adjusts) they are entirely controllable even in full auto.

Well, you can teach yourself to control the SMG even when it's bucking around, and you can get the hang of hipshooting, which is the real benefit of the SMG.

But anyway, it really depends on the map, as I said.

The PPD-40 vs. PPSh-41 decision is a tough one, and should be one based on personal preferences. The PPD-40 has a lower rate of fire than the PPSh-41, but the same ammo count. It may be a little more controllable than the PPSh-41. On the other hand, if you need to "paint" the area in front of you, the PPSh is better. Thus, I think it's a wee bit better in hipped mode. Both are good, though. The issue of hooded vs. no hood on the foresight is one of personal preference. Whatever sight picture you like better, go with that one.


The PPS-43 and the others, however, play MUCH differently and require very different tactics. The PPS-43 still has a high rate of fire, but is slower than the PPSh-41. It's better, however, at longer range if you aren't comfortable using the PPSh-41. I'll use it on, for example, Rakowice where the engagement range is a bit longer and I want more control. It's not as good for clearing a room, though, so on Stalingradkessel (if they had one) I wouldn't use it.


Figure out the requirements of the map and your own personal style. It's like the debates about the MN 91/30, M38, and M44. Just pick the right tool for the job and use that.

Solo4114 said:

Well, you can teach yourself to control the SMG even when it's bucking around, and you can get the hang of hipshooting, which is the real benefit of the SMG.

Click to expand...

What TW has done (I think) is made it so you need different mouse sensitivity settings depending on what weapon you want to primarily use. So me for instance I have my sensitivity fairly low so I can make ultra fine adjustments when Sniping or regular Rifleman. When I decide to use an SMG forget about it! It's uncontrollable, no amount of mouse jockeying can make them controllable for me. So should I set my mouse ultra sensitive so I can control the SMGs better while **** canning my rifleman effectiveness? I don't see having to change my mouse sensitivity everytime I choose a different weapon to be a good solution. So basically as it is now you have to "choose" which you would rather be because you cant do both effectively without slamming your mouse settings back and forth to suit. Anybody with the mod installed see how the SMGs behaved compared to now. SMG's went from effective short range "on the move" weapons to the complete opposite in Ostfront.

personally I think nothing can beat a good old sniper rifle

German guns ftw russian guns ****

Nifel said:

PPS-43 as it is now, though I would go for the PPSh-41 in a heartbeat IF IT HAD REALISTIC RECOIL! That said, I **** with all the SMGs anyhow, so I rarely use them. ;P

Click to expand...

20m out I have good accuracy with most smgs, when not rested that is. You just have to control the recoil the game doesnt do it for you. The best of the three is the 41, great accuracy if you spread a bit even at medium range, amazing ROF but its a bit bulky and slow to bring up IS. Of course I'd drop it in a second for an Mp40 or any other german gun.

I think the smg's actually have too much accuracy and too much recoil. Big, heavy WW2 era smg's had poor accuracy but very little recoil in reality.

Quietus said:

What TW has done (I think) is made it so you need different mouse sensitivity settings depending on what weapon you want to primarily use. So me for instance I have my sensitivity fairly low so I can make ultra fine adjustments when Sniping or regular Rifleman. When I decide to use an SMG forget about it! It's uncontrollable, no amount of mouse jockeying can make them controllable for me. So should I set my mouse ultra sensitive so I can control the SMGs better while **** canning my rifleman effectiveness? I don't see having to change my mouse sensitivity everytime I choose a different weapon to be a good solution. So basically as it is now you have to "choose" which you would rather be because you cant do both effectively without slamming your mouse settings back and forth to suit. Anybody with the mod installed see how the SMGs behaved compared to now. SMG's went from effective short range "on the move" weapons to the complete opposite in Ostfront.

Click to expand...

Agree 100%.

You just have to control the recoil the game doesnt do it for you.

Click to expand...

Too bad you have to, like Quietus said, adjust the mouse sensitivity to which weapoon you are going to use. Like him I use a rather low sens, so I can make those perfect shots with rifle/mg. Using the same settings on SMG is nigh on impossible.

A game shouldn't make you choose like that, then it's not up to the players skill any longer, just what mouse sens he has. Which is rather weird.

Devs seem intent on not fixing them either quite frustrating, I've been voicing my complaint since about April and no results.

The other side of the no-recoil bug:

The russian smg's recoil are too heavy to control on lower end machines it seems. When i play on a machine with 3 ghz cpu and 9800pro the recoil seems much milder than on my normal 2ghz cpu with that same 9800pro.

When i get the no-recoil bug it feels like bliss to not have my smg point to the sky after 3 short burtst.

Anyway, it's one of the reasons i don't play this game anymore.

I think the Russian smgs are way inferior to the Germans' the way their implemented in the game. Only the PPS43 matches the mp40/41. I don't see how PPSH41's superior fire rate is neccesarily better than PPD40's. The recoil is noticeable more significant which makes it a dubious improvement.

@Quietus, you can change your mouse sensitivity quickly by binding it to a key. I have set F11 to 1.25 (for MGs) and F12 to 2.5 (non-MGs).

zeep said:

The other side of the no-recoil bug:

The russian smg's recoil are too heavy to control on lower end machines it seems. When i play on a machine with 3 ghz cpu and 9800pro the recoil seems much milder than on my normal 2ghz cpu with that same 9800pro.

When i get the no-recoil bug it feels like bliss to not have my smg point to the sky after 3 short burtst.

Anyway, it's one of the reasons i don't play this game anymore.

Click to expand...

You are proof of what I've said a couple times now: Excessive SMG recoil is one of the biggest (maybe the biggest) reason why more people don't play RO. But eh, beating a dead horse I guess.

Munk Polkadot said:

@Quietus, you can change your mouse sensitivity quickly by binding it to a key. I have set F11 to 1.25 (for MGs) and F12 to 2.5 (non-MGs).

Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip but I prefer to not do stuff like that. I'd rather have the devs sync up the sensitivities so one setting works for all guns.

I find my sensitivity works just fine for pretty much all guns. I think that this is a matter of personal preference, hence why the system works as it does. If you're finding the variation between the sensitivity of weapons to be too much, then you're probably encoutering the difference in weight as represented by the game.

The game shows weight both in terms of how fast weapons move in free-aim (and shouldered aim, I guess), and in terms of how quickly a weapon shoulders.


This is another major advantage of the PPS-43 over the PPSh-41, and an area in which the MP-40 MAY be better than the PPSh-41. If you're in a "quick draw" situation, assuming people with equal reflexes, the one with the lighter weapon may get to iron sights a split second faster. The difference is if they miss with the first one or two shots, they may feel recoil more than a heavier weapon does.

Thus, the PPS-43 and MP-40 may shoulder faster than the PPSh-41 or PPD-40. The MP-41 may also shoulder a wee bit slower. So, again, pick the weapon that matches your style.

Solo4114 said:

I find my sensitivity works just fine for pretty much all guns. I think that this is a matter of personal preference, hence why the system works as it does. If you're finding the variation between the sensitivity of weapons to be too much, then you're probably encoutering the difference in weight as represented by the game.

The game shows weight both in terms of how fast weapons move in free-aim (and shouldered aim, I guess), and in terms of how quickly a weapon shoulders.

Click to expand...

PPSH weighs like what 10lbs? Alot more than a rifle yet all SMGs (but PPSH especially) jump around like a kite in a tornado when you fire them. I'll continue to use PPSH for 10 feet or less only while on the move and not rested. Just a simplistic formula like {bullet size, gun weight, rate of fire} could be used to determine consistent recoil amounts for different SMGs. But the reality is SMGs are too deadly and easy to use IRL so they have to cripple them in RO so people don't start crying about "noob cannons" and such. All this coming from primarily a rifleman should tell you something about how feeble I believe SMGs to be in RO.

EDIT: I think the dead horse has finally disintegrated. Enough from me.

Personally, I can't tell if the SMG recoil code increases recoil exponentially. It would seem that it should -- the first few rounds should be right on target, but gradually the recoil (without user input, anyway) would kick the barrel skyward or at least cause it to jump around in an increasingly random pattern.

There may also be a question about the balance point of the weapon. If a rifle is heavier in the muzzle, you may see less muzzle climb simply because the weight is keeping it down (but a strong powder charge may cause it to kick backwards). If the SMG has a really heavy stock, but its receiver and barrel are relatively lightweight, then it'll be more likely to kick the barrel skywards, i'd think. Factoring in something like the angle of the stock (inline or not? How much of an angle downwards?) will mean that the force will travel along a different line.

Personally, I have very little problem with the PPSh, although it took teaching myself to fire in very short bursts that are a fraction of a second in length (much like with the MG42 and 34). I find the SMGs to be controllable at the engagement ranges I use them. Now, whether these are the ACTUAL effective engagement ranges for SMGs in real life...well, that I can see being inaccurate maybe. But I don't mind because most engagements are short range in RO anyway.


I do think that you can modify the SMG performance while maintaining both realism and balance, but I don't think the SMGs are feeble or useless at all right now. you just have to use them for the right task.

My personal preference has always been the PPS-43 when it's available. It's the closest to the performance of the MP-40 and the smaller mag volume doesn't bother me a bit.