• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

WWAUT - The Road To Nov 18th

The Survivalist is bull****. Its like going back to pre KF 2.5 when there were no classes but worse. Its worse because back then you didn't get any bonuses, you were making the classes on the go with your teammates - comm, sharp, based on the weapons and the playstyle making an "imaginary" class. Now you can have 2 or 3 classes merged into one.. meaning bonuses applied. Imagine having 6 survivalists like Zerker/Sharp; Demo/Medic.... 6 Survivalist will destroy the game.. I am VERY eager to see how you can balance this class out. Also I STRONGLY believe its perks should be locked behind the level requirements for the other perks like if you want something from the Comm tree, you have to have it unlocked in the Comm skill tree. Meaning you have to put some effort into battling the Level Grind maps :^)
 
Upvote 0
I thoroughly thought that they might do something like a "rambo" perk with a gpmg ( lmg) and an explosive bow or something that would be better.a survivalist perk who uses other perk weapons just sounds like a cop out to me.

I just hope it doesn't ruin the game but I suppose tripwire must have a way of making it fit in so I shall have faith as I LOVE THIS game.

Firebug nerf I understand it was over powered, now you should have to use a bit of skill to be a good firebug, not just spray everything, I liked the way it used to be I think at the bullseye update.don't know why you nerfed the microwave gun but it's not by much,

Caulk and Burn it then mwg anything with metal, alt fire scrakes and fp's job done.

KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK TRIPWIRE
 
Upvote 0
No offense, but I feel that the "survivalist perk" is very lazy... The berzerker is already some kind of survivalist in a way, since he uses homemade weaponry. I would have really loved that martial artist perk... which would have been the "glass cannon" side of the melee perks (unlike the zerker,which is the juggernaut). Hell, I would have even liked the dreaded shock or engineer perks...

Also a bit sad the firebug is once again nerfed, it seems I'll never be able to like it as much as I did in the first game! I hope these nerfs aren't that impactful.

All the rest are good news though! More maps, more content, more weapons... It's all good and I'm always looking for that. I hope we'll get even more intel soon!
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheUndying
Upvote 0
I'm really glad to see the cryo grenades get buffed, because right now they're worthless. The firebug on the other hand sounds like he's about to become even more worthless than he already is. Those nerfs seem unwarranted.

Survivalist sounds incredibly dull and boring. Nobody wants some cross-class perk that doesn't have a defined role. You guys had a chance to do something really wacky and unique, like a mad scientist class or something. Nope, instead we're getting what I can only assume is yet another ballistics based class that might not even have its own weapons. Honestly, I'd rather you guys just waited till post-release to release a new perk- a good one- than for you to half-ass one right now while you're trying to get the game out of the door.
 
Upvote 0
Honestly, I think it would have been a far better course of action to stick with the original plan for Martial Artist, than going off-script with this Survivalist idea and I'll explain several reasons why:

1. If our imaginations about the Survivalist perk turn out to be true, you will have effectively unleashed THE cookie cutter perk of the game; its ability to cover multiple facets belonging to other perks, will greatly hinder the angle of having 9 or 10 perks to choose from but only a maximum of 6 at once. If one perk can have medic grenades while carrying the best weapons for each tier, then it will create the unorthodox problem where you boost variety within one perk's own capabilities, but at the likely expense of the other perks seeing any action at all. If a Survivalist can do a good enough job of slaughtering zeds while keeping the team alive, what is to stop players and teams from just going all-Survivalist and covering almost every angle possible several times over?

2. A lot of people were anticipating what the 10th perk would be, but the idea of an enhanced 'off-perk' perk kind of kills the buzz, mostly because there really is nothing new about it except for whatever is in store regarding the perk's skill tree (assuming they're not recycled from other perks ofc). It's possible (and sometimes better) for some of the current perks to go half on-perk and half off-perk, so it raises the question of what real necessity there is (if any) for there to be a whole perk being dedicated to off-perk in its entirety.

3. This idea also comes at the expense of the Martial Artist which seemingly had the potential to be a lot of fun and a fitting way to complete the roster of perks before the game's release. There's quite a bit that could have been done with MA; you could've made it the other half of the KF1 Berserker which had Zed Time extension, could've made it a pure-melee perk, one that's more aggressive and skill-based than the KF2 Berserker, and its intended tier 1 weapon was already in existence since early access started so only 3 other weapons were needed to complete the set.

Not only that, but one of the devs even stated in an older video (by older I mean well over a year ago) that the Martial Artist was his favourite perk, so you guys clearly had the idea for the perk in all that time. To realise that a potentially awesome perk has been cut to make way for cross-perk support which doesn't really bring anything legitimately new to the table by the looks of it, sounds really disappointing. It just feels like the opposite of a fitting way to complete the roster of 10 perks.

4. The very contemplation of the Survivalist perk, not definitively of course but slightly, implies that TWI is running out of ideas as far as perks with their own unique identities, roles and weaponry go. Perhaps the 10th perk is simply for the sake of meeting the deadline and (I sincerely hope that) there are more ideas in store for extra perks with their own unique weapons and skills post-release. But right now, it's not that reassuring.

I'm not usually highly critical of TWI and I do appreciate the work they do, but this really does feel like a lacklustre way of wrapping things up before full release and I don't just mean the idea of the Survivalist perk, but the timing and execution of it too. In a game such as KF2, a cross-perk support specialist can risk breaking the game in several aspects and unless the player base was granted access to the opt-in beta as soon as possible, then it might prove to be one hell of a juggling act to make it seem 'right'.
 
Upvote 0
I don't really care about the whole 10th perk. What we have now is quite enough, I would prefer to see some new and returning weapons (M32 and Husk gun).
But it seems TWI doesn't have enough time to make a whole new perk so they made this "Survivalist". It might be good or bad, we'll see. I just hope the launch brings more than just this perk and bug fixes and balance updates.
 
  • Like
Reactions: clconx
Upvote 0
Gotta admit, I'm seriously disappointed by this.

1. Firebug is bad enough as it is, the OPness was the only redeeming feature which just needed some adjustement. The nerf feels too harsh. +MWG is still useless to me.
The whole meta DamageOverTime doesn't WORK on Sui/HoE. As discussed countless times before, KF1's pacing is waaaay slower than KF2's. DoT works there since zeds don't sprint (apart from Scrake and Fleshpound) and can be melted down.

KF2 on Sui and HoE has such a fast, chaotic pacing that slowly chipping away enemy hp won't cut it. It's useless. Especially if you're trying to do damage, not weaken zeds or slow them down. Don't expect old functions to transition into a new game without problems or complications, especially if the changes are as drastic as in KF2.
Either slow zeds down in general and spawn more of the buggers, or give FB more direct damage.

2. Survivalist sounds boring. Personal preference I presume, but still, I wanted something REALLY imaginative. Crossperking could and SHOULD be enabled through other mechanics, not by just implementing a new perk that's basically a blank slate.
Especially since Martial Artist sounded awesome on paper, even with all the missing information.
We'll see how it plays out but right now I'm a bit mad that MA didn't make the cut while getting something that's nothing new on the table.
 
Upvote 0
I always look forward to an increase in the arsenal, so something like survivalist was not my greatest hope.
But maybe the people doing the weapons, freed from needing to do four weapons for the tenth perk, will get a couple sidegrades for other perks done before the full release?
In particular, it would go to show the development in a way, if kf2's original four perks at EA release all had at least one new weapon added to their selection before the 19 month later full release.

For the sharp using 9mm, I think he should get benefit only for a single one, not dualies.
Dual wielding on the precision perk never felt right in kf1.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
It will go 1 of 2 ways:
1- No one uses it, complete gimmick and terrible perk thrown in last-minute
2- Everyone uses it as it is the finale 10/10 amazing perk (some people have said you might unlock the skills for it once other perks unlock them)

Neither option sounds as good as Martial Artist, or LMG perk, or experimental weapons perk....
 
Upvote 0
I'm kinda on the boat with the guys who feel a bit let down on the Survivalist. Mainly because it means no new weapons for this class most likely. I strongly believe a survivalist type of class could have very interesting and unique perk skills (and WEAPONS), but I disagree on making him a "off-perk master" perk. You could do so much weird and awesome weapons for a class titled "The Survivalist". He can still be proficient with off-perk weapons, but I'd really hope to see him having his own perk specific arsenal. I like the idea of being able to choose your own grenades but the weapon shuffling thing seems a bit excessive.

I feel like being good with off-perk weapons should be an additional benefit, not the main focus of the perk. I still kinda feel that this off-perk profiency shoulda gone to SWAT. But we'll be seeing how the perk looks soon enough and I hope his skill set is unique enough to make this perk more than just a "cross perk friendly" perk.
 
Upvote 0
I am a bit puzzled by this latest bit of info. There are lots of legitimate concerns about the role of the survivalist. It seems as if this would have been a great topic to throw out for discussion before finalizing the perk.

For starters, the question was raised about how will we visually distinguish roles when one of the perks is a jack-of-all-trades? Who is healing? Who is taking out the trash? Which player can we rely on to take care of med/big zeds? In a perk-based cooperative shooter, you'd think being able to distinguish roles easily would be core to the experience. Not to bring up TF2 again, but Valve famously went to great lengths to even give each class a distinct silhouette.

What about Firebug? It went from OP superhero to red-headed step child in a matter of months. I think it would be helpful to all if we could understand the role you (TWI) envision each perk playing, so that we could all openly discuss whether or not each seems to be hitting its targeted abilities. Right now, it's somewhat of a liability on higher difficulty levels.

I can appreciate how difficult it must be to balance 9 perks when you have variables like map size, player numbers, and difficulty levels. And I can understand that you want the game to remain a challenge. But when certain perks become unplayable, I'd think you'd want to err on the side of "fun".

Speaking of "fun", I love the idea of a mad scientist perk. This could have been one that is fully responsible for very visible and tangible team buffs -- let the medic concentrate on healing. But that remains a topic for another thread...
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Cool idea about Survivalist, but I can't recall anyone asking for it? My fear now though is that no one will play other classes since they all want their own combos.

Why not do more about those hideous gas crawlers? Only a 10% decrease? You are serioulsy going to keep them?

What about SWAT ammo cost? Isn't it too expensive?

Also, I have wondered about the Gunslinger. Shouldn't he have more ammo? The only time you can use your magnums on higher difficulties are on FP's and Scrakes. Then you have to use deagles or you will run out of ammo. Is this how it should be? On the wiki it says the Gunslinger is a "bullet-dispensing machine" and has "Lots of Ammo" as a strength. I feel this is not true at all, especially on HoE. You are the first to run out of ammo, even you only go for important targets.
 
Upvote 0
Can you pleas compensate for the FB nerf by fixing other bugs (or potentially weird design choices) as well?
  • Fire DoT deals n0 (yes zero) damage unless you pick either BBQ or Napalm
  • Ground Fire skill doesn't affect molotov, making it the worst grenade in the game (even out-dps'd by med grenade)
 
Upvote 0