WTF happened to this map? Used to be a great map and now its changed so badly its no longer any fun to play.
Level Design Winterwald..gimme the old one back
- Thread starter Hayduke
- Start date
How exactly did it change to be worse?? My experience with the map and its updates greatly improved.
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I agree... The older map was wonderful... you never felt like you were being channeled. Always room to flank...This new winterwald map im sorry to say has lost its character....One would almost think that TWI had a hand in its changing.....it certainly feels much smaller and has flattened out a bit.
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I thought I opened up the flanks more. I widened every cap past the village.
I think the problem is the spawns are closer so people don't really explore around. The old winterwald had really far spawns so you had a higher chance of veering off direction. Now you spawn closer to the caps and you just run to it. But the new winterwald, the landscape has improved quite a bit. I think people will learn the new areas soon enough and start going there.
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That's weird because in one of the recent updates he pretty much removed the out of combat zone thing, allowing the Germans to flank anywhere.
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I think the map is getting better. I've only played the new version a handful of times and the Germans rolled pretty easily because there is so much room to flank.
But to me this is a great thing. Definitely one of the best custom maps out there...
But to me this is a great thing. Definitely one of the best custom maps out there...
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Lol what? The map has greatly improved with the last update. Surprising actually since I loved it all the time anyway already.
Haven't you seen how much space you get on the map to flank? The map has anything but chanelled the combat. In fact, you have much more space to operate at the sides of the defensive lines (as German), while the Russians now have to spread out the defenses a bit more than before (Pro Tip: Make sure that the sniper is covering either one of the sides where he can overlook a huge area so that the team is not flanked).
I played the newest version a couple of times and it plays great with 40+ people (in fact, this map makes great fun even with 64 players).
Anyways, shouldn't go this into the map thread in the first place?
Haven't you seen how much space you get on the map to flank? The map has anything but chanelled the combat. In fact, you have much more space to operate at the sides of the defensive lines (as German), while the Russians now have to spread out the defenses a bit more than before (Pro Tip: Make sure that the sniper is covering either one of the sides where he can overlook a huge area so that the team is not flanked).
I played the newest version a couple of times and it plays great with 40+ people (in fact, this map makes great fun even with 64 players).
Anyways, shouldn't go this into the map thread in the first place?
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As many have said..the maps is now wider and in a sense bigger than it was before to give the germans more flanking possibilities. And if you ask me it feels and looks way better than in previous versions.
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Danh...IMO, that was a PERECT map with great balance! Dont get me wrong, it is still a good map, but its like Trooper said, it kinda feels like you are being channeled and the sequence of capping is now very different, which has changed the whole dynamic of the map. Just my opinion though as many seem to like the changes. BTW..thnx for taking the time to mod this game!!!!
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You cap the exact same objectives? I only removed the first one because it was unnecessary. The channeled feeling is because you spawn closer, because you spawn closer the amount of time going to the cap is shorter. The short time to the cap makes it feel like you are being channeled. You feel as though you have no where else but to run in a straight direction to the cap. But that is not so, you have options.
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Assertions; assertions. EV-RY-BOD-Y's got an assertion.
Assertion? I think not. The action has been more "channeled" with the new spawn positions . Terrain has been flattened. The realistic killzones, cover, and intimidating hillclimb are now replaced with bunkers and sandbags. It's starting to feel like a bit like a COD style map. It's been somewhat simplified and doesn't feel quite the challenge.. Didn't we get enough of this playstyle with the original stock maps?
Not trying to complain too much here just stating the obvious.
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That statement nullifies your entire argument, imo. There's no need to compare this to a CoD map, because it is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING like you would see in the claustrophobic maps of CoD.
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I don't feel like it's changed much except for the expanding of the Russian camp. The map is still challenging and the flanks have widened too, it's definitely nothing close to what CoD maps are, you took it a bit too far there.
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Come on now, certain custom maps in CoD.... in particular WaW were quite good. Especially maps like mp_kokoda, mp_corregidor and those types. They were not claustrophobic at all and in fact, quite large and very well made.
The Kokoda Track campaign or Kokoda Trail campaign was part of the Pacific War of World War II. The campaign consisted of a series of battles fought between July and November 1942 between Japanese and Allied primarily Australian forces in what was then the Australian territory of Papua.
The Battle for Corregidor (5-6 May 1942) was the culmination of the Japanese campaign for the conquest of the Philippines during the Second World War.
The two above maps stand out because they were very well made. In fact, many felt they were superior to any stock maps provided.The Battle for Corregidor (5-6 May 1942) was the culmination of the Japanese campaign for the conquest of the Philippines during the Second World War.
As for Winterwald, that is an exciting map no matter how you look at it. I preferred the older version because of the flanking opportunities and good cover. However, that being said I must admit the most recent version offers many more opportunities for small "side skirmishes" - that's a good thing. A number of "mini battles" taking place at the same time. It makes for true entertainment and demands return engagements. Winterwald is great stuff.
I tried that speed test thingy.... impressive.
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As for Winterwald, that is an exciting map no matter how you look at it. I preferred the older version because of the flanking opportunities and good cover. However, that being said I must admit the most recent version offers many more opportunities for small "side skirmishes" - that's a good thing. A number of "mini battles" taking place at the same time. It makes for true entertainment and demands return engagements. Winterwald is great stuff.
I tried that speed test thingy.... impressive.
Hold on, danh, can you please clarify this? I thought the newest version was increased in width so that there are more flanking opportunities?
At least I had the impression that the newest version of the map allows you to flank much more than before and so, spreads the defense a bit further.
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Yes. I increased the width and length of the by about 150 meters. The means 150 meters added to width and 150 meters added to length. The noticeable areas will be the trenches and the soviet camp.
Let's see.
Here is the new WW map layout.
The yellow highlighted areas are brand new and added playable areas. The red line is the boundary.
Here is the OLD WW map layout.
So I put the new WW yellow playable areas and red boundary as an overlay. The BOLD red line is the boundary in the OLD WW. Big difference in size and areas played.
Now let us take a closer look at some areas
Here is the OLD Bunkers.
There are quite a few trees and steep hills. It was easy for Germans to just go up to the hill and lay down without any problems. The allies could not look down very well.
Here is the NEW Bunkers.
There are less trees. Too many trees impacted the performance of the game for some people. Less trees means more fps. Less trees also means less hiding spots for both Germans and Russians.
I added one more bunker! This means I expanded the area of the Bunkers. Also, the hill is less steep. Now the Russians can properly defend the Bunkers because they are able to look down. This also means more mini-skirmishes around the Bunkers.
Let's take a look at the flank to the left of the Bunkers.
Here is the left flank of the Bunkers in the OLD WW.
It was just a bunch of trees and you couldn't go there.
Here is the new left flank of the Bunkers.
It is still a bunch of trees but there are less now. You are allowed to go here and flank the Bunkers. You can also use this area as another route to the Trenches. The has uneven terrain and small hills for cover.
Let's take a look at the Trenches.
Here is the old one.
Nothing special here.
Here is the new one!
I expanded to the left and you can clearly see new trenches. Germans can use that to flank the allies or Allies can use it as a fire base.
So everyone remembers that huge hill with the cabin that no one was allowed to go to?
It got obliterated.
What you are looking at is the new playable areas to the left of the trenches and the bunkers. You can see the new trenches in the Trench cap. You can also see new trenches in the Soviet Camp. The area here has uneven terrain and many gullies for strategic maneuvering.
Let's take a look at the Soviet Camp.
Here is the old hill that was next to the Soviet Camp.
It had a few dug ins that allowed the Russians to have a high vantage point over the Germans. It also represented a boundary of the map. This area also blocked the Germans from attacking one of the AA.
Here it is redesigned.
It is opened up and now the Germans can easily flank and attack that AA. The Russians still have their high vantage point but it is pushed further back. This area also allows more mini skirmishes and you can enter the camp from here.
Here is the other old flank of the Soviet Camp.
There were many trees and many people complained about the no combat zone being so close to the combat zone.
Here is the redesign.
There are less trees and the "no combat zone" was removed.
Let's see.
Here is the new WW map layout.
Spoiler!
The yellow highlighted areas are brand new and added playable areas. The red line is the boundary.
Here is the OLD WW map layout.
Spoiler!
So I put the new WW yellow playable areas and red boundary as an overlay. The BOLD red line is the boundary in the OLD WW. Big difference in size and areas played.
Now let us take a closer look at some areas
Here is the OLD Bunkers.
Spoiler!
There are quite a few trees and steep hills. It was easy for Germans to just go up to the hill and lay down without any problems. The allies could not look down very well.
Here is the NEW Bunkers.
Spoiler!
There are less trees. Too many trees impacted the performance of the game for some people. Less trees means more fps. Less trees also means less hiding spots for both Germans and Russians.
I added one more bunker! This means I expanded the area of the Bunkers. Also, the hill is less steep. Now the Russians can properly defend the Bunkers because they are able to look down. This also means more mini-skirmishes around the Bunkers.
Let's take a look at the flank to the left of the Bunkers.
Here is the left flank of the Bunkers in the OLD WW.
Spoiler!
It was just a bunch of trees and you couldn't go there.
Here is the new left flank of the Bunkers.
Spoiler!
It is still a bunch of trees but there are less now. You are allowed to go here and flank the Bunkers. You can also use this area as another route to the Trenches. The has uneven terrain and small hills for cover.
Let's take a look at the Trenches.
Here is the old one.
Spoiler!
Nothing special here.
Here is the new one!
Spoiler!
I expanded to the left and you can clearly see new trenches. Germans can use that to flank the allies or Allies can use it as a fire base.
So everyone remembers that huge hill with the cabin that no one was allowed to go to?
Spoiler!
It got obliterated.
Spoiler!
What you are looking at is the new playable areas to the left of the trenches and the bunkers. You can see the new trenches in the Trench cap. You can also see new trenches in the Soviet Camp. The area here has uneven terrain and many gullies for strategic maneuvering.
Let's take a look at the Soviet Camp.
Here is the old hill that was next to the Soviet Camp.
Spoiler!
It had a few dug ins that allowed the Russians to have a high vantage point over the Germans. It also represented a boundary of the map. This area also blocked the Germans from attacking one of the AA.
Here it is redesigned.
Spoiler!
It is opened up and now the Germans can easily flank and attack that AA. The Russians still have their high vantage point but it is pushed further back. This area also allows more mini skirmishes and you can enter the camp from here.
Here is the other old flank of the Soviet Camp.
Spoiler!
There were many trees and many people complained about the no combat zone being so close to the combat zone.
Here is the redesign.
Spoiler!
There are less trees and the "no combat zone" was removed.
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