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Tactics Why do ppl open hatch to view in combat?

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#21
Rak said:
Yeah, in his book he says he does not put his head down the hatch untill he really has to.

It had even nearly cost his life, when a tank round tore off the cupola while bent to light his cigarette :)
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Yeah, "Tigers In The Mud," great book. I just finished reading it for my second time. You learn a lot about german tankers and tactics in that book.
 
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#22
I get unbuttoned as much as possible, and so far Ive never been killed by small arms.

The wide view of the binoculars and just being unbuttoned makes it extremely easy to spot tanks compared to the restricted view of the gunner sight. Also, as the commander, I can still traverse the turret, so if I spot a tank, nothing says my turret cant move while im buttoning up, or even still while im searching for tanks.

Overall, im not too worried about infantry. Usually I stay out of the middle of towns to dominate the battelfield against tanks, but even when I do go into towns, if you keep situational awareness, infantry will almost never get the jump on you.
 
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#23
If I am in a combat situation I stay buttoned up but in normal operations I will be open so I get the best view possible be it driver or commander.

I have been killed a few times by small arms fire like this but on the whole I am the one that gets the first shots in. 9 out of 10 the fire is from the other tanks MG & not infantry. they tend to stay away from tanks unless they have anti tank weaponry.

Have accidently scrolled to far in tank fight & got blown to bits as my head suddenly popped out of the hatch by mistake but thats only happened once or twice.
 
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#29
Heinz said:
what's true in reality, is generally true in the game; situational awareness will keep you alive longer as a tanker. used prudently, being "un-buttoned" gives you a serious advantage, especially if you are using the binoculars.
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I'm with Heinz on this one. If you can see the enemy before he can see you, you have a major advantage if you use it wisely.

True, you can get killed by a well aimed bullet. I've been driving full tilt and caught a bullet with my head. If I could have a good tank commander who use the cupola and a local voice system that worked and worked instantly, I would stay buttoned up a little bit more.

But to quote Fritz Langanke of the 2nd SS Panzer Division,
"I realize I must be able to observe better. So I open fully my hatch, risking the danger for the whole vehicle. But, 'field of fire' has precedence over 'cover', (the basic military rule), and when you want to shoot, you first have to see something."
 
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#30
With the TC (Tank Commander) unbuttoned, he's got a much better field of vision, and if the tank is stationary his binoculars are invaluable for spotting the hidden T-34 over in those trees. (Why tanks aren't equiped with telescopic sights is simply a game function- I don't know why!) As it stands, binoculars are much better for spotting than the main gun sight, and if the TC has to be exposed, so be it.

The comments regarding tanks in close proximity to enemy infantry and engineers are very, very true- unbuttoned, a TC or Driver is just asking for trouble, and buttoned up the tank is virtually blind to nearby ground-pounders. Best to keep to more open areas and fight the tank battle instead.

Most tanks today have excellent fields of vision, even buttoned up, but for our purposes there is no substitute for putting your eyes on the target or terrain. Cupolas are the next best thing, but still woefully inadequate- and surveying the battle field through the main gun sight is simply ludicrous unless you're in a REALLY good hide position and stationary for a while. Even then, binoculars will still give you a better look at what's downrange.

The advice for Drivers to stay buttoned up is good, as well- there's no reason to be out of the hatch unless you know for a fact you can't be hit (HINT: You NEVER know that for a fact- you tankers know what I'm talking about... CLANG!! BOOM!! "Where the $*&& did THAT come from??"

As for Bow Gunners, it would be nice to have the position modeled so that person could unbutton if desired, but as it stands it seems that seat is almost always empty anyway!

All in all, RO captures the essence of the whole buttoned/unbuttoned thing- the eternal trade-off between visibility and vulnerability.
 
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#31
Opening the hatch to get a better view certainly is a risk, but it's one you sometimes have to take.

Drivers should stay inside in almost all situations. The only circumstance where they should pop out for a better look is if the vehicle is stuck on some kind of unseen obstacle and they need to figure out how to get off of it. (Or if the tank is stuck in a ditch)

As a commander, on large open battlefields it's a good idea to stay turned out (unbuttoned) until you make contact with the enemy, this allows you to get a good view of the battlefield with binoculars and spot enemy armor before they spot you.

On combined arms maps, such as KonigsPlatz, my operating procedure is this, occaisionally I open the hatch and pop out for a few seconds, quickly scan for enemy infantry and armor, and then pop back in again before any infantry notice and draw a bead on me. This allows a quick scan, which is sufficient to take in my immediate surroundings, while minimising risk. I've only been killed twice out of the hundreds of times I've done this.
 
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#32
when i did my military service (in sweden) we had the hatch opened all the time, unless beeing under heavy infantry fire, sniper fire or in direct combat with another tank. the reasons are many.

-you can direct the tank verry precise between trees and houses
-you can use your binoculare more effective
-you can keep a lookout for heli and planes
-you can listen, if you turn of the tank for a while, and since armour in the forrest is heard atleast 1000-2000m away, it is what you use the most.
-you can talk to the infantry nearby and direct them to support you, and they can ask you to support them
-you can evacuate the tank faster in case of fire
-you can climb up and stand on the tank to peek over a hill, and the only thing the enemy can see is a small head.

now, i know that not real life is not like RO, but i play with open hatch most of the time, but i find the higher view point and the use of binocular the most important things as a tank commander.

the driver and (most of the time) gunner always had their hatches closed, so that the gunner could aim and fire as soon as i gave the order, and the driver because if he is taked out, the whole tank is a sitting duck.
 
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#33
One more observation, too, regarding FOV (Field of Vision): In a StuGIII you don't have much choice; either you stand in the hatch and see what's going on around you or you see the world through the main gun sight. If the TC is on the gun, even the driver sitting back has a better FOV. Turreted tanks have it better, using the TC cupola for intermediate vision.

I love my StuGIII's, but I can't wait to see the expansion with the StuGIV (better gun and better buttoned-up vision)!
 
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#34
Karl said:
In a StuGIII you don't have much choice; either you stand in the hatch and see what's going on around you or you see the world through the main gun sight.......

I love my StuGIII's, but I can't wait to see the expansion with the StuGIV (better gun and better buttoned-up vision)!
Click to expand...

StuG III G was also fitted with a 7 periscope cupola. On early and late Ausf G vehicles, it was movable.
 
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#35
I open the hatch when I am driver, but I never do that when I am commander. The gun sight is good enough. The tank's gun can see a long distance, although Binoculars see better, I just don't want my head to be shot off like my enemies when I fight them. The driver is safe with hatch open, becuase the head is so small, but earlier today, a guy was driving his Clown Car, and I managed to shoot his exposed head, and he died. I guess I was either lucky, or my accuracy is very good.

Another thing today, was that I see a Commander's hatch open, and he is shooting at my allied tank and its about to die, and I was a rifleman, so I just shot him and he died.

I guess the Binoculars are very useful, because you can see everything before it sees you, so you will have a massive advantage. I guess other players that I shot were not careful enough, and they did not use the Binoculars to there full advantage.
 
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#39
The only time I'll drive with my hatch open is in rear areas and when moving perpendicular to the expected angle of attack. For instance, on Orel moving to East Field or West Field when there may be a shot fired at me from the heights. Then I can see where the tank fires from better with my hatch open.

Never have the driver's hatch open when close to enemy tanks or infantry. I've killed enemy tanks with one shot by firing through an open drivers hatch! And I've shot both commanders and drivers who had their heads exposed with my trusty rifle.:cool:
 
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#40
Close infantry support isn't always available nor practical. Maybe a must when you're capping a village or farm house on the map. ... But what if you're moving cross country to the next cap zone? ...do you expect to have infantry keep pace, on foot? Or what if you're playing on a server where most of the foot soldiers don't have enough experience as tank descent infantry and recon (they usually get too close (for cover) and end up run-over.) Heads-up is useful when it's used correctly. The only gripe I have here is that we can't wind the commander’s chair like IRL so you're stuck with being either squarely in the copula or full height with your entire upper body sticking out. ....you should be able to vary the height you stick out. Until they give us that though, going full heads up is still a major advantage in game.
 
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