What effect are games like Red Orc having on real war?

[kartasik]

The modern military is using gaming like Red Orc to improve their units. But what I wonder is what effect is happening to all those pimple faced teens and even children who grow up in games like Red Orc? They are learning a few things that in WWII only seasoned troops attained. Green troops would often be blown away making the silly mistakes often encountered today by green troops in games like Red Orc. I used to wonder how the once-teen players I used to team up with in the 90s in DOOM and Quake were doing in the recent Iraq war - where no dbout many went. Every new player of shooter games goes through the usual transitions: 1. fear of being killed, 2. some reluctance and squeamishness about wasting your first foe who has his back to you. 3. some confusion about moving through a battle zone where all heck is breaking loose from all sides and ignoring it as you move toward your goal. 4. Avoiding shooting your buddies by accident during hot action. 5. The usual about using cover effectively. I know it had an effect even on an old fart such as myself back in 1992 when the old Wolfenstein 3d first came out. I recall coming around corners in the store or at work and for a brief instant catching myself jerking as I almost drew down on the people before me. But after a month that passed. But one effect never left me and that is I can't walk into a building or into a landscape without sizing up where all the defesive points are located.

With so many of the world's youths playing such games since grade school certainly the effect on wars must soon be noticed. However the one thing they may lack is how to use their real body. I have noted that such youth often spend too much time playing computer games rather than learning how to use their real sprite: their body.

 

[Darklife]

Well I don't have any facts to back this statement up, however I think that you overestimate gamer's. After all I think that no matter how realistic a game is it will never live up to the real thing. After all in RO you always know that it's just a game and you'll just respawn. I mean think about it, in RO I usually have no problem running across a street or running behind a tank with a faust, but if this was to happen to me in a real combat situation I think I would just hide behind a pile of sandbags and stay there.

 

[ToiletDuckie]

I have heard stories of Humvee-surfing GIs taking down T-55s and T-72s with drive-by C4ings.

 

[Koba]

But one effect never left me and that is I can't walk into a building or into a landscape without sizing up where all the defesive points are located.

Then I think you need professional help. Or failing that, less time playing computer games. Take a walk in a forrest, and try not to think of being ambushed by 'faust wielding squirrels. That innocent hollow just off the path is probably just a hollow, and not a concealed MG-42 position manned by crack SS badger-truppen.

I mean, really. Your days must fly by.

 

[sandorski]

Hard to say if there are any affects, IMO. I'd assume that certain things can be learned, such as you say like being aware of your surroundings, but there are so many factors missing from Gaming that exist in Real Life. The biggest is the Fear of Death, even when a game has a severe penalty(1 life per round such as in CS or point loss) for Death it's still nothing close to RL's permanent Game End. Those kinds of stresses go way beyond what a Game to simulate and can interfere with a Real Persons ability to think clearly in a Real battle situation.

In Real Life situations there are also many other options available than in most Games. Movement, as an example is much easier in Reality than in Games. Closed Door-break it down
high wall--climb over it
burnt out wreck---walk over it
etc

When I was a kid(back in the '70's) we'd all split into 2 teams, grab a stick and have little Wars. Not very Realistic to point a stick, make a gunshot sound, then claim you got Joey(maybe even debate about it ), but not much different than Video Gaming, except for the fact at least we were getting some good exercise doing it!!

 

[Cuddles]

I dont whant games to be stressfull

Arcade games can be bcause if you die 3 times you need to put in another quarter DAMN ARCADES!!!!!!!!...............huh <-< >->

 

[Nifel]

I have read alot about this question: How does video games affect kids (and adults for that matter)?

Well, there is a graph showing violence over the past few decades and guess what? The violence actually drops by more than half in less than 10 years... and each drop corresponds with the release of Playstation, Grand Theft Auto, Playstation 2, GTA 3 and so on.

Here it is:

These numbers are taken directly from the US Departement of Justice, Bureau of Statistics.

Another one here:

The American youth are the most peaceful in recorded history, believe it or not. The violence in the US is at an ALL TIME LOW. According to the FBI, the murder rate hit a new 40 year low in 2004. I can't imagine a better statistic. The best selling video game of 2004? Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas.

Go check the numbers. Kids like to play PS instead of beating each other up.

EDIT: I got most of this from somewhere, though I don't remember where specifically. I have it all in a document, I'll try to find the webpage.

EDIT2 : Found it: http://www.gamerevolution.com/features/violence_and_videogames

 

[Fu. Svedberg]

Surveys that where done on people that played alot of FPS games online (UT series, Quake series and CS) showed that they had better situational awareness.
One example was that they quicker and more accurate could estimate the amount of people in a room as they walked in and stuff like that.

 

[Cuddles]

And how do they kno it is affected by video games?

 

[Fu. Svedberg]

They don't but then it is a very unlikley coinsidence that people that have better situational awareness like to play videogames.

Nothing is an absolute trouth in sience but unless you can prove them wrong it most likley is true

In any case that maybe would be of use anyway since people like that would be better suited for certain kinds of jobs and by monitoring their computer playing habits you could make a decision to hire or not hire a person

 

[Nifel]

And how do they kno it is affected by video games?

Because pilots/astronauts/etc have certain reaction tests they have to pass in order to be able to fly. The same tests done on gamers, mainly FPS gamers, show that good players have just as good or in some cases even BETTER awareness, reaction and agility than top notch pilots.
I read somewhere about this 14 yr old kid who totally destroyed an austronaut in a test like that.

EDIT: An "normal" people where, in the very same test, rubbish. They weren't 1/10th as good as the pilots and even worse than some gamers.

On of my friends used to be the no. 1 gamers worldwide in StarCraft and he had SICK reaction skills. Even more so than myself, me being a former champion in ... dare I say it, CS.

 

[Cuddles]

So a kid in the streets with a Uzi can be mutch more danger than a fully trained navy seal?

 

[Nifel]

So a kid in the streets with a Uzi can be mutch more danger than a fully trained navy seal?

Hehe, of course not. He doesn't have the physical training, the arms training and so on... so no, he isn't. But in said tests he could be far better.

 

[Fu. Svedberg]

If he is as good or better then a navy seal at handling his weapon yes but that has nothing to do with video games. He can maybe spot and identifie targets quicker then a navy seal but you still need the physical and practical training with gear that a navy seal has and he probably lacks.

EDIT:// curse you nifel for beating me to it >.<

 

[Nifel]

Curse yourself for cursing me! Oh, and Where Dead Angels Lie is a magnificent tune, good Sir.

 

[Cuddles]

WHAT HAVE I DONE

 

[Letum]

VBS1 (Virtual Battle Space) Is a training tool used by many armed and civil forces.
http://www.virtualbattlespace.com/

VBS1™ is based on the commercial gaming engine known as Real Virtuality created by Bohemia Interactive Studios. It was specifically tailored to meet the individual needs of military, law enforcement, homeland defense, and first responder training environments. VBS is easily deployed on laptops or desktops or through the Internet, delivering cost-effective solutions for worldwide interactive training.

VBS1 is basically the game Operation Flashpoint but with different models and scripts.
It is sold at a very high price (well over

 

[sandorski]

I have read alot about this question: How does video games affect kids (and adults for that matter)?

Well, there is a graph showing violence over the past few decades and guess what? The violence actually drops by more than half in less than 10 years... and each drop corresponds with the release of Playstation, Grand Theft Auto, Playstation 2, GTA 3 and so on.

Here it is:

These numbers are taken directly from the US Departement of Justice, Bureau of Statistics.

Another one here:

The American youth are the most peaceful in recorded history, believe it or not. The violence in the US is at an ALL TIME LOW. According to the FBI, the murder rate hit a new 40 year low in 2004. I can't imagine a better statistic. The best selling video game of 2004? Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas.

Go check the numbers. Kids like to play PS instead of beating each other up.

EDIT: I got most of this from somewhere, though I don't remember where specifically. I have it all in a document, I'll try to find the webpage.

EDIT2 : Found it: http://www.gamerevolution.com/features/violence_and_videogames

I disagree on your conclusions. Experts on the issue claim simple Demographics(Baby Boom generation growing older) on the drop in violent crimes in the US. Also, if you look on your own charts you see the drop begin before any of the factors you have used and that the drop was very steady from the initial drop. If your claim had merit you should see a much more dramatic decline after each factor, but the decline remain quite consistent.

 

[slyder73]

So a kid in the streets with a Uzi can be mutch more danger than a fully trained navy seal?

No, it's the training that counts. The video games don't train kids to be soldiers, but armed forces all over the Western world use video games to train their soldiers.
A fellow by the name of Lt. Col Dave Grossman put together a lot of research on this topic in the US. Basically it boils down to video games train people to reflexively react to a threat, without the middle step of emotional contemplation. Western armed forces do this so that soldiers can react and kill fast, the public video games help thier recruits already be in that mindset by the time they are in basic training. WE've gone from 20 percent of infantry bullets actually being fired with intent to kill to something like 85 percent in modern conflicts. Only with western armies using modern training techniques.
There are a lot of numbers to back this up. Found a little blurb link with an interview with Grossman.
http://www.abc.net.au/quantum/stories/s108078.htm

Quite interesting

 

[Letum]

Low crime rates usually mean poor policing.
Fewer crimes are reported when policing standards fall.
Fewer crimes reported = Fewer Crimes on the graph


lies damm lies and statistics.