What are your Role Expectations?

[Hellmeat]

So I pretty consistently see people post that X Class should be doing this or that. Regardless of my view on trying to pigeon-hole people into changing their play style to suit how another individual thinks they should be playing, obviously TWI had specific roles in mind with each Class... so I am interested in hearing how you play.

NOT how you think other people should play. How you play. I am hoping that I might pick up a few tips and tricks here, and who knows, maybe other players might find an interesting load-out or some advice that they might want to incorporate into how they play as well.

Firebug - I mainly kill trash as a Firebug, at least until I buy a Microwave Gun. At this point I am able to take out Siren and Husks pretty easily. I CAN kill Skrakes and Fleshpounds if I absolutely have to, but let's be honest: All that really does is Enrage them and pisses off the entire team, so I mainly handle the trash while Berserker / Support tear apart the big guys. I usually carry the Caulk-N-Burn as my backups.

Commando - Pretty much same as above. I like the AK and Bullpup, and while I can (with some luck) shoot the head off a Skrake with enough head shots, I feel like it's better to clear trash and keep stuff off the Medic and heavy hitters instead of blipping several clips into a bullet sponge.

Support - I play this when I just want to kill everything. I keep Supplier on and announce it in Chat every round in case anyone needs ammo. I like the Double Barrel Shotgun and the A12.

Berserker - I don't play this Class very much, I think my Beserker is only like Lvl 3 or 5? I like the Class, just haven't gotten around to investing much time with it.

Medic - When I Medic, I like to heal as first priority and DPS second. This is honestly the most frustrating Class for me for several reasons. I like the AR and Bullpup. I don't play Medic much, I think mine is like Lvl 10-ish.

Demo - I loved Demo in KF1. I've played it maybe 4 times in KF2 and didn't like it. It may have gotten better after patches, but I never went back to try it again yet.

Gunslinger - Don't like it very much, I think I am more of a Sharpshooter guy and will wait for that Perk to come out.

Additionally I carry a Medic Pistol if I have room and off-heal when I can.

 

[Rocker Fox]

Firebug: Start killing trash with both the trench gun and the starter weapons. Get the microwave gun and turn all the Scrake into spaghetti. Once you get the trench gun and the microwave gun in your match (especially if your 15 or above) then your pretty much solid to face anything. Trench for Siren and under, microwave gun for Scrakes and FPs. Doubly so for boss matches. Otherwise mainly stick to trash if you have the trench gun or the larger stuff (nothing smaller than a husk, siren or bloat) if your using only the microwave gun. With zed shrapnel it feels like firebug is the be all end all perk at the moment, especially with many larger enemies including bosses taking extra damage from the MWG.

Commando: Mostly as a trash clear with the odd time being able to land extra damage on a scrake or maybe FP if things went bad. Should also be a team leader perk being able to call out what targets to hit and what ones to avoid since he can see the HP of everything. Good during boss fights as well in that regard since he can usually tell when the boss is either going to hit it's next phase and call a cease fire or to know when he needs to start firing again. If i want to clear my trash i usually end up with the scar and Bullpup and if i want to participate in larger fights than the AK and Scar works (mag size and stability against large groups vs Raw damage output against large targets). If you get lucky with zed time you can usually turn a single large enemy inside out with rapid fire.

Support: Kind of in an odd place. He can either take a large chunk out of wall of zeds or kill large things, lacks the ammo to do both. Tried a few combos with the M4 and AA-12, Double Barrel and AA-12, 3 weapons with the strength buff but for most cases double barrel works better with the AA-12. Only time M4 really is any use is when your team lacks a commando or gunslinger and need to cover more distance. He is mostly good at holding choke points and not as much of a roamer perk like gunslinger, medic or zerker.

Medic: Second commando with a good heal. I spend about 60%-70% of the time shooting and the rest dropping heal darts, sometimes in between single shots. The medic changed a lot from the KF1 medic so really you need to play him very differently. You are mainly useful for keeping your team healed before and after large fights but if you get a FP or Scrake pounding on someone it feels like it's better to just shoot the Scrake or FP to add damage as you lack the raw instant heal from the first game that can outrun the Scrake or FP damage. He is a support perk, he has to mix his time between covering the areas the team isn't looking at and dropping heals to make sure your team doesn't die. Usually run the Medic AR and Shotgun, the shotgun can drop a decent chunk of damage in a short time and the AR is just good for clearing trash and such.

Zerker: Tank. That is about it in killing floor 2 in my eyes. Usually run the Pulverizer and the Vlad or if i feel insane i run the Eviscerater. I like the former since with that combo i can do a lot of damage and still feed my team money when they are running perks with support and Demo which almost require the cash injection. His role is mostly being the front door, if there is a scrake he needs to hold it's attention and get it on him.

Demo: Really don't like the perk because it feels like it has way to much against it but when i do play it i end up just holding all my shots for larger enemies and the odd group i can hit. The HX-25 is a joke, instant sell off, i would rather use a 9mm for the whole second round than have to deal with that thing. At least with the 9mm my shots go where i want them to and i can more reliably dispatch a group with less ammo cost. I get C4 and eventually work my way up to the RPG since the M-79 costs too much for what it does and i can't carry it with the RPG so what is the point? C4 is essentially a second grenade to me, the stacking debuff makes it not worth it in my eyes to use as a massive damage spike weapon.

With the RPG it's essentially a case of saving the shot for the big guys. Don't bother bringging a demo into a boss fight, you are pretty much better off with any other perk, the 50% damage reduction to explosives bosses get just kill you damage outright and if your unlucky enough to get hans you will definitely not have enough ammo to help the whole wave. If your less than level 20 than you have my pitty, perk as a whole if a ***** to get to that point. Apparently it gets godly at 25 with nuke but honestly i just can't ****ing deal with how unfun it is to play right now in order to get to that point.

Gunslinger: It's a Commando/Sharpshooter hybrid perk with a lot of roam potential. On top of being a fairly reliable way to deal with scrakes as well as FPs if you have the right weapon setup you can still decimate trash if your cool and collected enough. One of the only perks so far that can take it's tier 2,3 and 4 weapons and still have room left over for a medic pistol so that makes him really powerful. I had my easiest hard run when playing as the gunslinger, Having the Dual 500. mags and the Degals made it so any scrake or FP that came after me would just get filled with lead and it would mulch anything else that came my way. Most annoying enemy was crawlers since hitting their head can be hard and rack em up gets thrown off with them running around. Really, really powerful multi tool perk, when used properly it can easily take on anything the wave throws at it.


As for the overall balance i feel like Commando is the only really ok one, he does everything his job calls for and a little more.

Support and medic are not as strong as they were in the first game but are still playable. Even with homing darts (losing the ability to drop a ton of hp on someone nearly instantly kinda kills it for me) some of the skills are kinda awkward and could use a looking at. Not really a buff, just a look at their mechanics and how their skills work with their weapons (example, lacerate is fairly ehh, Support with it's M4 being the redheaded stepchild, etc).

Demo just feels weak. Not going into detail as there is a lot of threads on it already but to summarize a lot of his skills don't mesh well with the perk itself and it seems like a bad perk if the only thing you can rely on to say it's good is a level 25 zed time perk. All of the skills feel wonk and don't really go toward the perk goal of killing larger things that well. It's pretty much stated in big bold letters that it's supposed to be killing the FPs but it doesn't seem to do the job as well as a gunslinger, firebug or zerker so take from that what you will.

Firebug is just op, mainly due to that one perk, you guessed it, zed shrapnel. On top of being really out of place it makes him far to good at crowd clearance. Mix that with most things being weak to the MWG and you will get balance troubles. As a side note i would say get the levels on firebug while you can since i feel a nerf coming for that perk soon.

Zerker players i kinda feel bad for. It is the most flip flopped perk and it seems like no one can agree on what his role is. In my eyes it's a team tank, damage dealer and cash support but it seems no one can agree on how he is supposed to achieve that. I would say please, leave the zerker alone for a patch, play with the other stuff first and then come back to him when you got other ideas.

Gunslinger im in kind of an odd place with. On one hard if you know what you are doing that perk can be really op and does it's role to a tee. It does it's job extremely well and can wreak havoc on tide after tide of zeds. On the other hand one small screw up and your pretty much dead with that perk. It has no real survival bonuses, it's just pure damage.

That is about how i look at it. A lot of perks seem more general, some in a good way and others in a bad way.

 

[FoolishNinja]

Berserker:
Focusing on Scrakes and FP after wave 5/10. Trying to EMP Scrakes, if we have some intelligent people in server to headshot him. Other than that, I try to duel them with a medic together, if the block / parry works.
If not, LMB spam.

Support:
Shooting at everything that moves.
Gets sad for not having ammo.
Tries to survive the wave with 9mm.
Repeat.

Commando:
I use T2 or T3 for trash and T4 for Scrakes, if our zerker uses EMP on him.
Normally I focus on trash and give some covering fire, while my team tries to kill big zeds.

Firebug:
Just burn what you see. especially these damn spiders!

Medic:
Pressing MMB until my fingers bleed ( seriously, this needs to be changed).

 

[Hellmeat]

Man, I really wanted to like Demo, but I agree with RockerFox ... it feels like TWI wanted to change up the class, but wasn't sure exactly what they wanted to do. I don't like the weapons, especially the starting weapon, and not enough ammo to do a whole lot on later levels. I especially feel that if a Scrake or FP take an RPG round to the face, that should be game over for that Zed, instead of shrugging it off like some hit them with a pillow.

And Firebug is actually my favorite Class, but you are right: A Firebug using Zed Shrapnel is pretty much a force of nature. I wander around turning everything around me into large globs or bloody oatmeal with impunity. Nothing can hurt me. Nothing can stop me. I am usually surprised when everything is dead and the round is over. Is it OP? No question... but it's so freaking fun to do.. I will be sad when it's nerfed.

I like that the Zerker is a good tank, I should play it more and learn how to Block / Parry. I'm glad they added that in, it adds a whole level of depth and utility for those who choose to learn the skill. I'm not there yet, and to my great shame I usually run around just swangin' dem thangs until I get overwhelmed and die =/ Feel free to judge me, ha ha!

 

[JoelFig]

Comm: I try to exclusivley pop heads and extend zed time fully. I decap everyhing below a scrake and scrakes when safe. I run callout and tip my team off about low-health zeds of importance.

Gunslinger: Same as commando just with more "oomph" and less zed time and call out support, but with a knockdown to make up.

Support: I play for versatlity. If team needs ammo I run it, otherwise I make use of the aa12 + boomstick with extra ammunition. If we struggle with FPs I've been known to off perk explosive weapons with Strength. "Support the team need."

Zerk: Crovel everything until SC, then pulverizer, with ammo for FP and no ammo for SC, until the endgame. I can fund my team and carry an extra weapon for them, I like to make use of my emp when I'm too tied up to distract one of the multiple SC. I go for knockdowns, parries and stumbles when dueling bug guys.

Medic: Rarely play it but I monitor the team, heal as dart-effeciently as I can and sedate / leg stumble bug dudes.

Firebug: I usually just hold down a side on my own, microwave scrakes and only ever need to pull back with FPs. Strong perk.

Demo: Specialize on FP removal, occasionally help decap a scrake.

 

[Senario]

Commando - I decap loads of trash from afar and on occasion I decap a scrake with headshots (I'm not as consistent with it as I want to be). Typically SCAR and Kalashnikov

Support - I support the team through ammo/aoe shots/fast damage output with AA-12. I save my ammo for the big guys. Typically starting shotgun and AA-12 for ammo reasons.

Firebug - I need to play this more as it is fun but AoE CC with burning animations and decent damage against all types of enemies. The burning CC and killing is what I stay around for with mainly the Microwave gun.

Medic - Heal, heal, more heal, oh and shoot things every once in a while. Not much to say here and it is pretty straightforward. Throw a grenade if you need to kill and heal.

Gunslinger - need to play it more, no opinion yet.

Demo - I cry EVERYTIME I try to play this class. I loved it in KF1, it was a true joy to play and you had usefulness. In KF2? Lol stay with the pistol and hope you can get enough money for the grenade launcher + Pistol and C4 or a Rocket Launcher and pistol or C4. None of which do all that great damage. Basically it is a dead weight and you will usually never pick this class over any other class in the game. I expect to do nothing at all.

Zerker - Good tankyness, should have strong attacks since they are up in the front with all the zeds who now move faster and have an easier time damaging you. Blocking and Parrying is alright but generally not as useful. I usually run around with a Pulverizer and a Zweihander but lately have been burned out on the class leveling it up to 25 pre rework and playing it to death post. Ideally it should be able to deal with all trash and one of the big zeds but that currently isn't the case as they are not good at any big zed imo. Their damage got nerfed for a style of play that ultimately didn't involve doing damage but holding block. I expect to be just alright but realistically would do better taking a gun class due to range.

 

[Icytor44]

Commando: Team Leader/Jack of All Trades - I oddly find the Commando to be in the perfect spot at this time. Good at everything, but doesn't do those things as efficiently as specialists. One main thing to mention is I find Commando's are fantastic at whittling down head health for Scrakes and Fleshpounds. After trying AK as well, the burst fire mode is actually excellent, as you shoot very fast. Best at close/close-mid range, and pops heads like no ones business. I expect Commandos to target key enemies and take them out quickly.

Support: Big Guns - While I honestly think that the support could have a couple of tweaks, for the most part they are fine for what they need to do. If they could slowly repair door health along with their other skills, they would be in a good spot. I expect Support to bring good damage and clear in the face of other classes going down.

Firebug: Trash Killer/Yeah Kinda Needs Nerfs - A class that can remove the vast majority of enemies with almost no issue, as well as having the microwave gun and ludicrous passives makes the Firebug one of the best perks. I expect a firebug to carry games.

Medic: Healer/Off-Trash Killer - Very well done, needs to have some tweaks to passives but plays like a more offensive medic from KF1. I expect a medic to heal at opportune times and to clear trash just in case.

Gunslinger: Burst DPS - Probably the best class in regards to high damage, I expect a Gunslinger to really shine when they get more and more guns, and to be able to put the hurting on Fleshpounds and Scrakes.

Demo: Instant Trash Killer/FP Killer - I love the class, but not for what it actually brings mechanically to the table. Much of the class seems to be wonky and hard to use, not even getting into the fact that your Tier 4 weapon only really allows one other weapon of your choice if things go ugly. Boss resistance to explosions does not help. Grenade Pistol is actually very good against Sirens of all things. Other then that, it kinda sucks. C4 is unusable, Grenade Launcher is a far worse RPG, and RPG is good, but could be better. Basically, class needs to be looked at, which IIRC is what TWI is doing currently. So Kudos! I expect Demo to quickly take out a growing horde, and to either kill or lay massive damage onto Scrakes and Fleshpounds.

Berserker: Tank - By far the most divisive class, it fills its job well but at the same time might do it too well to the point where having one makes the majority of the game much easier. If they changed Zerker to be more of a tank, adding those abilities and slightly reducing damage, that would be pretty cool to me. Eviscerator needs to be changed, we all know this. I expect Berserker to tank and help parry and peel away Big Zeds and Bosses.

 

[Undedd Jester]

Medic: Heal anyone who loses any HP.

Everything else: Kill anything that moves, and focus fire big guys when they turn up.

Classes all have the weapon versatility to tackle pretty much everything on the field. Roles are very poorly defined. Yeah sure some classes are better than others at certain things, but a class is equally if not more so defined by his weaknesses as his strengths, and class weaknesses are no where near pronounced enough.

Quick examples: The old school Firebug and Commando wouldn't dream of firing at a Scrake or FP unless they really had too, because they lacked the DPS, they would more piss them off ahead of kill them. Sharpshooters could easily get mobbed by crawlers and stalkers due to his need to get headshot damage, and Demolitions Experts similarly had unbelievable difficulty if the gap to him got closed at any point. The old school Support had great versatility but the length of his reloads could really screw him up without trigger discipline. These were the types of things that made classes interesting to play, understanding their weaknesses and the need to rely on teammates or try to overcome them, this defined class roles far better than any of their strengths.

KF1 then released a slew of weapons that undid these weaknesses and KF2 similarly followed suit. Now none of those types of weaknesses can really be seen, in fact I dare say there are 0 examples of similar problems that the modern perks encounter.




As an aside my favourite class in KF2 was the Berserker at launch, which made for a great laugh between me and my friends, as they all knew how much I loathed the KF1 zerker. His class had exactly what I wanted, clearly defined weaknesses to try and overcome, a purpose in the team that relied on his teammates using the distraction and crowd control he brought to the team. The changes to the Zerker do not interest me in the slightest, nor do any of the other perks in the game. I have accepted I'm not the target audience for Killing Floor, despite how much I loved the original KF1, but I do find these discussions about class roles rather laughable.

You can't have class weaknesses if you make every class versatile, and that seems to be what everybody wants.

 

[DirtySpartan]

Commando: Clear trash near teammates taking out big zeds, clear trash, headshot big zeds if no trash present or at a sufficient distance

Berserk: Tank Fleshpounds and micromanage scrakes.

Support: Clear hallways with DBS. Clear FPs with AA12. Try to DBS scrakes' heads and if that fails AA12 them.

Gunslinger: Single out scrakes/fleshpounds and proceed to solo kill them. Take out Husks/Sirens from afar. Clear groups of zeds with consecutive headshots while feeling hype as ****.

Demo: I don't.

Firebug: Nah.

Medic: Barely played it but I just spammed darts when I did.

All on HoE.

 

[macready84464]

And Firebug is actually my favorite Class, but you are right: A Firebug using Zed Shrapnel is pretty much a force of nature. I wander around turning everything around me into large globs or bloody oatmeal with impunity. Nothing can hurt me. Nothing can stop me. I am usually surprised when everything is dead and the round is over. Is it OP? No question... but it's so freaking fun to do.. I will be sad when it's nerfed.

And that's a bad thing. Whenever someone finds they're having fun with a perk (I've only found myself having fun with the firebug perk) TW seems to feel the proper response is to nerf it. If people are having fun with a perk, broken as it might have been with some things not working the way they were intended, then isn't that the goal? It is OP but it's more fun than most of the other perks. Why not just buff every other perk so they're all OP together? What's the point of achieving balance if you're left with a bunch of unfun perks?

 

[Hellmeat]

Zerk: Crovel everything until SC, then pulverizer, with ammo for FP and no ammo for SC, until the endgame. I can fund my team and carry an extra weapon for them, I like to make use of my emp when I'm too tied up to distract one of the multiple SC. I go for knockdowns, parries and stumbles when dueling bug guys.

Hmmm I'm going to try this setup next time I play. My play style for Zerk at the moment is pretty much holding down the LMB and running around like an idiot, ha ha! I like the idea of being a Sugar Daddy for the team to boot strap others up to their T3 and T4 weapons early.

And that's a bad thing. Whenever someone finds they're having fun with a perk (I've only found myself having fun with the firebug perk) TW seems to feel the proper response is to nerf it. If people are having fun with a perk, broken as it might have been with some things not working the way they were intended, then isn't that the goal? It is OP but it's more fun than most of the other perks. Why not just buff every other perk so they're all OP together? What's the point of achieving balance if you're left with a bunch of unfun perks?

Yeah, I agree! You have to Perk in a special way to get the Super OP Results as well, for the most part. I think if the other Classes had a perk or weapon that added something really awesome to the team, it would help. What if the Zerk could manually kick off a 10sec Zed Time? The Medic could carry one dart that was purchasable at the Trader that granted +25% Damage for 5sec to whoever they shot?

There are all kinds of fantastic ideas in the Idea Forum, and TWI (in my opinion) has been great about adding content and features to KF1, and KF2 is still technically in Early Access ... let's keep our fingers crossed that TWI decides to go another route to make the game fun without doing what most developers do and nerf what some players find fun (even if it's considered OP) in a knee jerk reaction instead of examining WHY the players love it, and expand on the fun aspect.

Hell, I would like at some point to play as a Demo and be able to call in an air strike and blown the unholy sh*t out of an area full of Zeds and just watch the bloody chunks fly in Zed Time as the bombs drop and drop and drop... OP? Hell yes, but unimaginably fun as hell =/

And for anyone who was wondering about the Firebug Perks needed to wreck shop, here is what I use:

Lvl 5 - Fully Stocked - It's nice to buy a weapon that's full of ammo.

Lvl 10 - Fuse - Super Great for lighting up a Siren, Bloat, Scrake, or Fleshpound and walking away as they burn to death. Saves on ammo as well due to the DoT aspect.

Lvl 15 - Zed Shrapnel - This is the Perk. You can actually take out most Scrakes with this if they are surrounded by trash pretty easily, but your chances of doing this increase a huge amount if you use Zed Shrapnel with ...

Lvl 20 - Flame - The butter to Zed Shrapnel's bread. Once you've made it this far, congrats, you are now Fiery Death Incarnate.

 

[random]

And that's a bad thing. Whenever someone finds they're having fun with a perk (I've only found myself having fun with the firebug perk) TW seems to feel the proper response is to nerf it. If people are having fun with a perk, broken as it might have been with some things not working the way they were intended, then isn't that the goal? It is OP but it's more fun than most of the other perks. Why not just buff every other perk so they're all OP together? What's the point of achieving balance if you're left with a bunch of unfun perks?

different people have fun in different ways, having fun while being strong in a game is fun and all, but it can only last for so long till you find it too easy and get bored, plus you can actually ruin the fun of the rest.

there is always a way to have fun by being strong and that is playing a lower difficulty.

 

[Aleflippy]

Well,as everyone seems to do it ,here are my two cents (or at least ,how I try to play them)

The medic is obviously a supportive perk. His role is to keep the team alive which I do most of the time! I also think he's perfect to kill all the annoying trash (sneaky clots and crawlers) as the other perks SHOULD focus on the bigger threats (but of course, healing is his priority). I also try to play him as a tank sometimes due to his armor bonuses and his healing grenades,but I'm not that good at it.

The support is (contrary to his namesake) more of a soldier in my eyes (even though he has the very useful "supplier" skill to help his team). He's effective at dealing with pretty much any zed and has one of the most useful grenade in the game. I'd say his role is pretty much the one of a damage dealer

The gunslinger is a heavy-hitter who manage to do pretty well against trash too (kinda like the sharpshooter in the first game to be honest). I wouldn't say he's the most effective against the heavies,but he certainly packs quite a punch and I often find myself almost dancing around the battlefield ,killing everything in my wake.

The commando is clearly a trash-cleaner while also being kind of a "leader" perk. He's one of the most useful perk (at least in my opinion) as he's useful to kill lot of smaller zeds quickly but also to snipe the head of sirens and husks from afar. Adding to this (and justifying the "leader perk" name ) ,he can see stalker and the health of his enemies ,while also having a few skills useful for all his teammates.

The berzerker is clearly the tank. He can take a lot of punishment and retaliate with strong hits too. He's also the second best perk to stumble/stun zeds (behind the demolitions) which is also a useful trick. I learned quite late in KF1 how useful he could be , but it seems he's even better in KF2 (even though it's last nerf was maybe a wee bit too much)

The firebug while he doesn't have as many team-bonuses as the commando ,is doing a better job as a trash cleaner. While I'm quite sad that the afterburn isn't doing much anymore,he's still devastating against groups of crawlers/clots/stalkers/gorefasts which is a pretty useful thing. I was also shocked to see how powerful his microwave gun is against scrakes (which takes if I'm not mistaken... 400% MORE damages ? ) ,so he's great at that too.

The demolitions should be THE crowd control perk and a heavy-hitter but end up not being very great at both roles... But I think everyone already know that already.

 

[weeman2412]

Firebug - The ultimate trash cleaner. Should avoid fleshpound at all costs and let gunslingers and berserkers handle it. I play this pretty much 80% of the time, because it's just so efficient.

Commando - Its role is being a waste of space so I don't play it.

Support - Its role is being a waste of space so I don't play it.

Berserker - The best face tanker in the game, buys the team some time to kill big zeds. I play it when there is 0 berserkers on team.

Medic - Only good for healing and even that is a real stretch, worthless everywhere else. I basically play this when I feel like goofing off.

Demo - Its role is being a waste of space so I don't play it.

Gunslinger - There should be at least 2 of these on every single team. It basically one shots all trash and competes with firebug for ultimate efficiency in dispatching scrakes. It's nades also pummels fleshpounds. Its pistol does respectable damage to fleshpounds. I play this whenever I have the urge to play badmando, or manure specialist.

 

[Senario]

And that's a bad thing. Whenever someone finds they're having fun with a perk (I've only found myself having fun with the firebug perk) TW seems to feel the proper response is to nerf it. If people are having fun with a perk, broken as it might have been with some things not working the way they were intended, then isn't that the goal? It is OP but it's more fun than most of the other perks. Why not just buff every other perk so they're all OP together? What's the point of achieving balance if you're left with a bunch of unfun perks?

Yeah this is a big disappointment of mine with KF2. In KF1 everybody had good things they could work with. But the name of the game is NERF in KF2...this really makes no sense because it is a Co-Op game.

A good Co-op game will give everybody good things to specialize in/do well in. Meaning if everybody is decently OP, nobody is and it is all good.

I'd expect to see this much nerfing in a Competitive game, and this game is most certainly NOT a competitive game.

 

[random]

Yeah this is a big disappointment of mine with KF2. In KF1 everybody had good things they could work with. But the name of the game is NERF in KF2...this really makes no sense because it is a Co-Op game.

A good Co-op game will give everybody good things to specialize in/do well in. Meaning if everybody is decently OP, nobody is and it is all good.

I'd expect to see this much nerfing in a Competitive game, and this game is most certainly NOT a competitive game.

to be fair in giving balance to a game the things that are OP affect more than the UP ones, a very small portion of the nerfs have been overdone or done with bad timing, it would be ok like you said to be somewhat OP in some things as long as you also have some weaknesses to counter that, but at least for now this is not really the case.

if the game is competitive or not doesnt have any relevance in that it needs to be balanced.

 

[weeman2412]

to be fair in giving balance to a game the things that are OP affect more than the UP ones, a very small portion of the nerfs have been overdone or done with bad timing, it would be ok like you said to be somewhat OP in some things as long as you also have some weaknesses to counter that, but at least for now this is not really the case.

if the game is competitive or not doesnt have any relevance in that it needs to be balanced.

Yes it does. A PVE game does not need to be as finely tuned as a PVP game. In PVE games it is completely okay to have a few OP things here and there for players to discover. For example, reload canceling. That's OP as crap, I'm sure Tripwire will nerf it shortly because Tripwire is interested in making Killing Floor 2 as boring and unfun as possible.

 

[OohItzMArio]

I'm reading a lot about peoples hate for demo right now and while I agree it is in a bad place right now in most aspects, I don't agree with the starting pistol being that bad.. Hell for the first 1 - 4 waves all I ever use is mostly that pistol, you just bash anything not clumped together then shoot right at their feet.

The way that gun works is if you treat it like a normal pistol/shotgun you won't get much out of it and it just feels wonky and ridiculously weak. However, if you shoot at their feet and allow the explosion radius to also deal its damage to the zeds it does a good chunk of damage for a starting pistol. I also am a fan of keeping that with my RPG if I don't have faith our firebug/commando can keep the trash clear around me and others.

Granted, I usually only play around suicidal but I also play HoE from time to time, so I will add my expectation of the class.

Demo: Start out with helping to clear trash around with your 9mm swapping to your demo pistol for clumps of weak zeds (aim for their feet!) working your way up to your RPG. Don't waste your cash on the single shot grenade launcher, for a few hundred more you already get your end game weapon. If you aren't confident in your teams trash holding abilities stick with your pistol if they seem confident and reliable swap it out for your c4, don't forget your medic pistol. One big thing i've noticed a lot of demo's don't know about is your rpg does a fair amount to scrakes heads (getting up close enough that your RPG rocket doesn't explode but infact the dud of the RPG can incap them), along with if you pick up the grenades explode on impact you can disorient a fleshpound to help your snipers out. All in all I am writing this while in a rush to leave so I probably butchered a lot of it but whatever.

TLDR: Demo pistol isn't that bad you just can't use it like a pistol, your RPG dud can incap scrakes, your grenades can stumbled fleshpounds and you suck on bosses don't bother.

 

[random]

Yes it does. A PVE game does not need to be as finely tuned as a PVP game. In PVE games it is completely okay to have a few OP things here and there for players to discover. For example, reload canceling. That's OP as crap, I'm sure Tripwire will nerf it shortly because Tripwire is interested in making Killing Floor 2 as boring and unfun as possible.

I can agree to that part, however i probably disagree with the rest, i think its ok to have some strong elemenrs here and there and even slightly OP, but not things as game breakingly OP as the medic armor repair/old zeker, nuke, old micro wave gun, and such.

some things like the support ammo price, commando stuff, and some others might have been done with bad timing or overdone, and i hope they are changed at some point.

so you mean not easy = unfun? (im not being sarcastic, serious question)

 

[Rocker Fox]

And that's a bad thing. Whenever someone finds they're having fun with a perk (I've only found myself having fun with the firebug perk) TW seems to feel the proper response is to nerf it. If people are having fun with a perk, broken as it might have been with some things not working the way they were intended, then isn't that the goal? It is OP but it's more fun than most of the other perks. Why not just buff every other perk so they're all OP together? What's the point of achieving balance if you're left with a bunch of unfun perks?

See i don't have a problem with people having fun with perks. My main thing is you have something like the firebug who just wrecks everything they come across with so little effort that it's kinda sickening right new to a perk like demo who struggles just to do it's job untill it gets to level 15 and above and even then it can still be a struggle.

When it comes down to it i have always said this about firebug, zed shrapnel does not fit the perk. I love firebug, loved it in kf1, love it in kf2 but every time i play and see zeds just exploding from the smallest damage flame weapon causing a chain reaction to kill every other zed around them i can't help but sigh. For other perks to achieve something similar they have to use a grenade or fire off enough shots to actually kill that many zeds.

To me as well you could have put in a lot better skills that would have fit the perk, even for damaging more zeds in a wide area. Here is an idea, Wide Nozzle: Firebug weapons now spray fire in a larger area in front of them (50-75%) but suffer a slight range reduction (10-15%). Here is another, Hot Spot: When shooting a zed the area below them will catch on fire for 3 seconds and damage any zed walking through it in a 1m radius.

Really, causing zeds to explode is the demo's job, stop taking his job.