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Weapon Jamming (Merged Yet Again)

If Countess had his/her way we all be still playing quake style gameplay.:rolleyes:

1% may happen once in a hundred firing of an automatic weapon.

A) it was realistic and happened
B) it makes SMGer think about run and gun tactics
C) it adds an element of unpredictability in the game which is sadly lacking

Jamming - Thumbs up to me

And to hell with the opposers of change!

But I would like historical figures on jamming and fixing not some made up figures
 
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ViViD said:
But I would like historical figures on jamming and fixing not some made up figures

If the statistics were realistic then I'm fine with it, however, I'm guessing (as I have stated before) that the probablity was so low for certain weapons that it would be a waste of time to add since it would only happen once every two or three games.

It would have to be constant (meaning for example that on Every shot of my stg-44 I had a .1% chance for a jam, or whatever the realistic rate was).

I say that we see how ROO plays without jamming (as I hold that you wont be alive long enough to have your weapon jam any way).
 
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The_Countess said:
yes exectly. we got those games allready.
you think the ppl playing those games would buy a game from a upstart game studio just because its the same?

You very nicely nullified your own earlier claim :)

if you want to stick out as a small studio you got the be different.

Sticking out is one thing, making a living is another. And ask anyone, you rather make a living than stick out. If you manage to combine two, great, but only time will tell (and yes, I _do_ hope they will succeed).


laught all you want but no i dont think it is.
they make great games preciesly because they dont listen to others.
why would they quiet doing what made them make great games in the first place?
quite a few of the dev's are veterans from other mods going way back. they know what makes a game great and what makes them playable.
what make you think you know better?

There are many great games and many great studios producing great games, shame that most of those great games never sold so all those great studios died because they couldn't make a living.

I don't know how you manage to keep missing the most important point: If game doesn't sell, lets say, without crosshair, it is dead game and you got a bunch of jobless developers. To save the game, and developers to make living, they will add the crosshair. It is quite simple really, if you live on planet Earth.


no i wasnt but i got the next best thing : DEV's comments on why they went for steam. and i'm now telling you what i heard from them, as you obviously missed it somewhere. (i think it was in one of the interviews somewhere)

Sorry, have to laugh again. You really think they go tell the truth in an interview, especially when they're trying to sell the game? Didn't expect you to be that naive.

yes preciesly... and jamming wouldnt be challenging. it just happens, or not.
no challenge in that, just 100% dumb luck.

Challenge comes from not putting yourself in a position where it happening leads to certain death, e.g. your example earlier going alone behind the enemy lines trying to kill 'em all like every good little Rambo would. Difference being: instead of running like a lemming to the middle of enemy shooting left and right, you'd have to think that little bit more where to go and when to go. Obviously this is not your preferred style of play, but RO trying to be realistic, latter way is only correct way.

P.S. And yeah, it was (is) dumb luck irl as well when the weapon jammed (jams), real people learn to live with it (or died trying), that's how it should be in a game that is supposed to be realistic as well.
 
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We have no proof that the devs would NOT tell the truth. And we DO have a ton of proof that they DO tell the truth since they are constantly here being friendly and helpful, keeping their words about media releases, so yes, I would trust what they say in an interview about why they chose Steam.

There are lots of VERY good reasons to choose Steam. Heck, if I knew that they would make more money by selling ONLY on Steam I would simply tell them to forget retail and help push Valve to provide other means of payment so that their long time followers who would have trouble paying for it online could.

I firmly believe that retail is a bad idea, whoever the developer, but that remains to be seen.
 
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Spade said:
You very nicely nullified your own earlier claim :)
you obviously misread or misunderstood because i did no such thing.

Sticking out is one thing, making a living is another. And ask anyone, you rather make a living than stick out. If you manage to combine two, great, but only time will tell (and yes, I _do_ hope they will succeed).
its quite simple really. if you're small and dont stick out you dont make any money.

I don't know how you manage to keep missing the most important point: If game doesn't sell, lets say, without crosshair, it is dead game and you got a bunch of jobless developers. To save the game, and developers to make living, they will add the crosshair. It is quite simple really, if you live on planet Earth.
geez your missing the point completely!

just to stick with the crosshairs.
EVERYBODY and their mother allready has crosshairs in their games.
why would anybody want to buy a another game with crosshairs from a small upstart developer company when they could just go buy UT Q3 COD2 or whatever.

btw, what your preaching here is that the DEV's should make a game that appealing to as many people as possible , completely contraraty to your claim of wanting the game as realistic as possible.
somewhat hypocritical if not down right foolish wouldnt you say?

RO allways has been a niche market, and RO:O will be no different.

Sorry, have to laugh again. You really think they go tell the truth in an interview, especially when they're trying to sell the game? Didn't expect you to be that naive.
ummm what dus selling the game have anything to do with that?
they picked steam so they could retain controle over the content of sayed game, so they could make all the design choices and not have somebody watch over their shoulder telling them what they can and cant do.
thats what they told us, why would they lie about it? it wont make the game sell less or more. its just completely irrelavant.

P.S. And yeah, it was (is) dumb luck irl as well when the weapon jammed (jams), real people learn to live with it (or died trying), that's how it should be in a game that is supposed to be realistic as well.
no, there are a lot of factors that influence this.
keeping your gun clean, loading your mags up properly, checking the gun regularly, not slamming it in the dirt or getting it wet or dusty, fire short bursts ect ect ect all have a influence.
and we'll have to assume that every soldier that starts in RO dus that well and dus as well as everybody else (everybody should start on a equal footing)
that means the chances of someone gun accualy jamming in the next 5 to 10 minutes (and even thats a strech, most people dont last half that long) is so extreamly minimal why even bother putting it in?

ViViD said:
If Countess had his/her way we all be still playing quake style gameplay.:rolleyes:

1% may happen once in a hundred firing of an automatic weapon.
if vivid has his way we'd all be going for the cheap shots on this forum instead of just having a (reasonably) civilized discussion :rolleyes:

and you obviously have no idea what your talking about.
do you have any idea what 1% would actualy mean?
it means the gun would jam more then once every 4 mags if its a STG, and every one and half drums on the ppd40 and ppsh41.
i dont have the statistics but i somehow douth it would happen that often... i dont know why thou just a guess :rolleyes:
that is if you make it 1% per bullet.
you could also make it 1% per times started fireing...
but o wait whats this? then it would be smarter to keep on spamming and empty your gun in one go, as you have less chance of it jamming.
we cant have that now can we.

p.s. sorry for any spelling mistake its late im tired and im dyslectic.
 
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The_Countess said:
btw, what your preaching here is that the DEV's should make a game that appealing to as many people as possible , completely contraraty to your claim of wanting the game as realistic as possible.
somewhat hypocritical if not down right foolish wouldnt you say?

RO allways has been a niche market, and RO:O will be no different.

Oh please!

If you haven't yet understood, or are trying to derail the conversation when gaps in your reasoning are becoming too wide, that when RO was a mod, no one's livelihood was on stake, I can't help it.

Now that they're going retail, quite few people put their livelihoods on it.

And if they can't make their living by selling a game without crosshairs, they sure will try to sell one with them.

Comprende?

Can't be arsed to continue this debate: you have your opinion, I have mine, lets leave it at that.
 
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Simply put there are two ways to make money in this scenario:

1) Make a product for a large market - in this case the mainstream market with crosshairs etc. You'll likely get a small slice of a big pie.

2) Make a product for a small market with little or no competition. You'll likely get a large slice of a small pie.


Either way is valid.

Since the Devs came from the community, and not (all) from some mainstream developer, I'm pretty sure they want to make the latter.
 
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Mormegil said:
Either way is valid.

Since the Devs came from the community, and not (all) from some mainstream developer, I'm pretty sure they want to make the latter.
exectly!

And if they can't make their living by selling a game without crosshairs, they sure will try to sell one with them.

Comprende?
except they'll sell their game without them perfectly fine.
the DEV's have allways made good design decisions. the moment they start listeing to others and not to themselfs is probably the moment i wont like their games anymore.

as for derailing the conversation... its more like i was bringing it back on track really. the one who derailed it was you by bringing up the totaly irrelivant crosshairs and sales figures.

... gaps in my reasoning LOL. now thats rich!
the only gaps i see are the ones in my arguments where i didnt explain everything in great details and left you to fill in the blanks.... but i guess thats not one of you strong points.
well it was fun arguing with you anyway mr swiss chees ;)
 
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[CoR]MiccyNarc said:
I am sick of this BS.

As soon as someone disagrees with a whackjob idea they are accused of being RAMBO and are henceforth banished from the community. Knock it off.


Run and Gun is a tactic people can use it wrong like I as a SMG cover and try to either rush the enemy if i am close or flank them. People are ***** at it but i dont think i am cough
 
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My, My, this certainly has turned into a lively discussion.

Amerikaner said:
Since when did this community start craving easier gameplay? RO is all about realism and getting as close to the real thing as possible. Jamming is part of that. It adds more depth to the game and makes for more interesting situations. All you people who want to leave stuff like this out and make RO as generic as possible can go play CoD. Im sure those developers will gladly cater to your simplistic needs.

I don't think that was called for. Nobody here was asking for it to be taken out. For all we know, jamming could be in ROOST. If it is, it might be a boon to gameplay, it might not. For any definitive answers, we'll have to wait till it's out and we've had a play. I don't think jamming is all that an important issue anyways, there are far more important things to consider first. Frankly, I saw this discussion as the feasibility of Jamming in RO.

Now, having said that, I actually agree with the Countess for once! However, I look at it slightly differently.

I would gladly take jamming anyday, if I thought that it could be implemented in a realistic and feasable manner. However, I think most of the the conditions that affect jamming are beyond the scope of what ROOST is trying to do. There are the environmental effects (dust, dirt, mud, water, snow, ice), everyday usage, and there is cleaning, maintaining and loading the weapon properly. All these things don't really fit into a FP tactical shooter, they are more suited for a campaign driven simulation or an RPG, perhaps with experience system, both of which ROOST is not. There is no section for cleaning and maintaining your weapon, I would hate to think what kind of code and how big it would get if you start adding in dirt accumulation.

The only kind of jamming I would accept in ROOST at the moment would be dud rounds. If the devs (or someone) could find some statistics on faulty rounds and implement that into the game, then that would be acceptable. Not having experience with guns outstanding, I think they would be very easy to clear for most guns, just bolt out the round (OK, I'm thinking rifleman, here, but you know what I mean), and presto, the jam is cleared, for little annoyance. Machine guns may be a little more difficult.....but all the better for us riflemen!

Other than that, random jamming would feel very artificial to me. It wouldn't sit right.
 
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Personally, I don't see anything wrong with adding in random jamming. It IS something that is out of the control of the firer, even when the weapon has been properly maintained (e.g., worn out mag springs, the occasional poorly manufactured round, etc.). So long as the "unjam" animation lasted about the same time as a typical reload one, I don't have problem with jamming being implemented (in my experience, clearing a jam in the M16A2 typically takes no more than a couple of seconds).
 
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