VS siren pull is cheapass garbage

[Nenga]

I did L4D for a couple of hours, it was boring as hell. I always stay with the team, but sometimes everyone is occupied.

Like I said, the problem boils down to not having control of your player at all times. You need to be able to react and fix a problem, not just stand there and do nothing while your health gets drained. It's not me, I have 30 years of gaming experience.

It's poor game design to do something like that, where a player is not in control.

A good teammate will keep an eye on his team. Even if i'm doing my own thing i'll turn around every now and then to make sure things haven't gone to **** behind me. Even if i'm doing good on my own, it's still a team game and when I need it, having two people to fire at a fleshpound instead of one is important. You're supposed to be watching each other's backs; not him watching yours while you ignore his.

 

[BJ Vynz]

Every zed needs something "like" the sirens and exploding crawlers if anything.

Spent a couple days on this (hadn't played KF2 in a while) and goddamn if the zeds couldn't possibly be more underpowered.

This mode is fun for a few matches, but when all servers are easy "normal" mode with people at level 25 the zeds hardly ever stand a chance. They give you no reason to want to be a zed.

Spawn in to die mostly to 1 shotty shot or 1 pistol shot. Such fun. Much challenge.

This game mode is broken, and it doesn't help that map exploits still let the human players huddle in a little safe spot spewing rockets, grenades, fire, etc. Disappointing vs mode is disappointing.

 

[RoyLaPoutre]

Every zed needs something "like" the sirens and exploding crawlers if anything.

Spent a couple days on this (hadn't played KF2 in a while) and goddamn if the zeds couldn't possibly be more underpowered.

This mode is fun for a few matches, but when all servers are easy "normal" mode with people at level 25 the zeds hardly ever stand a chance. They give you no reason to want to be a zed.

Spawn in to die mostly to 1 shotty shot or 1 pistol shot. Such fun. Much challenge.

This game mode is broken, and it doesn't help that map exploits still let the human players huddle in a little safe spot spewing rockets, grenades, fire, etc. Disappointing vs mode is disappointing.

Completely agree with you. But seriously, how didn't people see that coming before the mod ? KF and KF2 are and always have been about overwhelming and relentless masses of trash zeds coming at players. They are not dangerous alone, they're dangerous for human players when dozens of them are surrounding them, with the occasional combination of bigger zeds that can rip an entire team to pieces. They're cr@p in 1v1 otherwise.

Maybe something better can be done with PvP, I honestly don't know and don't really care, but it would take a lot of rework for something that is clearly not made for KF. The core design of the game doesn't fit the PvP concept.

 

[Difficulty]

Completely agree with you. But seriously, how didn't people see that coming before the mod ? KF and KF2 are and always have been about overwhelming and relentless masses of trash zeds coming at players. They are not dangerous alone, they're dangerous for human players when dozens of them are surrounding them, with the occasional combination of bigger zeds that can rip an entire team to pieces. They're cr@p in 1v1 otherwise.

Maybe something better can be done with PvP, I honestly don't know and don't really care, but it would take a lot of rework for something that is clearly not made for KF. The core design of the game doesn't fit the PvP concept.

It would help alot to set the difficulty to suicidal or at least hard. Another thing that would help would be for the survivors to have objectives, which would force them to move. Camping survivors are really hard to kill.

 

[Rocker Fox]

It would help alot to set the difficulty to suicidal or at least hard. Another thing that would help would be for the survivors to have objectives, which would force them to move. Camping survivors are really hard to kill.

Pretty much this. If anything KFO mode should have came out first to set the stage for that and after KFO was fully finished add a VS mode based around that.

In any asymmetric game where a team of human players don't need to move they will camp and slaughter the other team usually en mass. Games like NS 1/2, Evolve, Depth, L4D, all of those have things to keep the player moving whether it be a required obj that needed to be pushed, an object that needed to be defended, or something that allows them to upgrade.

It would also be nice to make something that a survivors need to stick near and defend so zerkers and medics can't just endless kite the zeds if there is only 1 left which is the entire reason something like the siren pull even exists.

 

[BJ Vynz]

I'd just like them to add Suicidal and/or HoE to the mode.

But a PvP with Objectives for humans would also be great in addition. Would certainly make it more fun!
Then it would actually feel like we're stalking our prey, not charging into certain death.

Right now this ****e is a joke. Level 25's facing weak little brothers of FP's and scrakes.

 

[sathenzar]

cloud.dsynclabsllc.com titled "Sath's 7-Wave PVP Mode" server is running amod with a 7 wave PVP with the siren nerfed.

 

[RaZDaZ]

Isn't it there so that gunslingers, zerkers and medics don't endlessly kite the zeds? I think that having an object that you need to defend is more reasonable like a generator or a trading post. Something to keep players from running around the map endlessly but also limit the L4D insta-CC mechanics.

 

[nejcooo]

How can you kill berserker with 175 hp, crazy resistances to everything, crazy powerful pulverizer on edge of being op, and constant armor + by almighty medic?

That's only thing zeds have to challlange op lvl25

 

[Rocker Fox]

How can you kill berserker with 175 hp, crazy resistances to everything, crazy powerful pulverizer on edge of being op, and constant armor + by almighty medic?

That's only thing zeds have to challlange op lvl25

I will say that and arguably the bloat. The bloat is the one nice thing the zeds get in the form of area control, if you can herd a player though a hallway with bloat mines then they will die really quick.

Only problem is that this is a rare occurrence and depends on being lucky enough to spawn a bloat, pick the exact hallway a zerker is running though, place them in a way where he needs to hit them and not get killed while setting them up.

 

[Shining Wolf]

TBH... I really want it in the main game if it just pulled the player towards the siren and they could still shoot. That would help with zerkwalling a lot

Every zed needs something "like" the sirens and exploding crawlers if anything.

Spent a couple days on this (hadn't played KF2 in a while) and goddamn if the zeds couldn't possibly be more underpowered.

This mode is fun for a few matches, but when all servers are easy "normal" mode with people at level 25 the zeds hardly ever stand a chance. They give you no reason to want to be a zed.

Spawn in to die mostly to 1 shotty shot or 1 pistol shot. Such fun. Much challenge.

This game mode is broken, and it doesn't help that map exploits still let the human players huddle in a little safe spot spewing rockets, grenades, fire, etc. Disappointing vs mode is disappointing.

Yeah, I have less than an hour of vs just because it sucks so much to play as the zeds. The real nail in the coffin is that unlike L4D where being a suicide rusher has at least the consolidary prize of doing perminent damage (I hate L4D vs but it's at least somewhat balanced), everything you do to players in this game is totally undone by unlimited heals.

 

[Yoshijk]

Siren tractor beam is cheap in the aspect of having too much range. Should be halved, in my opinion.

It sucks when one hides in a high place like a second floor window, guarded by a wall so no one can shoot it while pulling on you from what seems like 30 feet away.

 

[Zerobot1]

Sorry but there's no way that anyone who has played as Zeds against a capable 6 man team with Zerkers + Medic could ever suggest nerfing any of the Zeds at this point in time. Siren pull is one of the only useful things, and then you have to be lucky and hope a Zed with actual damage output is hitting them for you, otherwise they'll barely get through your armour in a full grab duration.

Every game is different and you can take advantage of stupid decisions that players make at times, but against anyone competent it's really just a case of feeding them XP until the Patty wave, and then they hurl abuse at you and complain that you're not walking into their bullets for them.

 

[BJ Vynz]

I will say that and arguably the bloat. The bloat is the one nice thing the zeds get in the form of area control, if you can herd a player though a hallway with bloat mines then they will die really quick.

Only problem is that this is a rare occurrence and depends on being lucky enough to spawn a bloat, pick the exact hallway a zerker is running though, place them in a way where he needs to hit them and not get killed while setting them up.

In other words you need a handful of "what if's" happening for this to play out.

Right now berzerker + med = god mode. Every zed needs better abilities than the junk they've got. Siren is perfect, if ridiculously low in health.
There isn't 1 zed a half decent team can't kill in a split second on easy "normal" mode. FP's and Scrakes last all of five seconds.

 

[Rocker Fox]

In other words you need a handful of "what if's" happening for this to play out.

Right now berzerker + med = god mode. Every zed needs better abilities than the junk they've got. Siren is perfect, if ridiculously low in health.
There isn't 1 zed a half decent team can't kill in a split second on easy "normal" mode. FP's and Scrakes last all of five seconds.

Yeah, like you said it is a lot of what ifs but before the patch i noticed bloats having a ton of hp and resist vs even the scrake.

I get what you saying, every other zed seems piss weak when playing against a halfway decent medic+zerk combo (which is all the time) which is why i mostly avoid the mode to be honest.

FPs and Scrakes do need a buff though, when they die that quick it feels like there is no point in even having one on a team since they die so fast and all damage is healed back almost instantly. Still think that it also lies in the problem of the gamemode itself, it's extremely easy to camp one spot all game long and just not care what gets thrown at you.

 

[sathenzar]

Sorry but there's no way that anyone who has played as Zeds against a capable 6 man team with Zerkers + Medic could ever suggest nerfing any of the Zeds at this point in time. Siren pull is one of the only useful things, and then you have to be lucky and hope a Zed with actual damage output is hitting them for you, otherwise they'll barely get through your armour in a full grab duration.

Every game is different and you can take advantage of stupid decisions that players make at times, but against anyone competent it's really just a case of feeding them XP until the Patty wave, and then they hurl abuse at you and complain that you're not walking into their bullets for them.

Well my mod uses suicidal mode, so at that point the siren is cheap. With 2 sirens you would get a free win by holding them for 6 seconds they would always die with each pull because of the poke damage.

 

[kreso5]

Funny how Siren's pull is actually first mechanic they added in game that is going more towards KF way of playing (being specifically good at something and bad at something else, promoting ACTUAL teamwork).

But yes, I agree that it's really cheap to pull someone down from barn to fall down, because Siren pulls him forward, or to Vortex him through small gap, like windows on Farmhouse, or gaps in fences on Biotics Lab, without even needing to point it directly at them. That's just plain bad.