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TWI, what happened to supports and demo's ability to carry extra nades?

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#2
Domi_y0 said:
Like seriously? Why are you insisting on making kf2 so different from kf1? Same goes to fp mechanics (yea i know you wanted to make it the same as in kf1, but when are we gonna get that change?)

Please gimme an answer
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They put all the nades (and more) into the pulveriser and let zerk carry a huge supply instead of support or demo. "Why" is the better question.
 
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#3
Domi_y0 said:
Like seriously? Why are you insisting on making kf2 so different from kf1? Same goes to fp mechanics (yea i know you wanted to make it the same as in kf1, but when are we gonna get that change?)

Please gimme an answer
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I assume that Tripwire thought the ability to carry extra grenades were overpowered.

Tripwire have already stated that they are reworking the demo's skill, so the demo may get extra grenades.
 
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#5
Orly?

Orly?

I do not want to sound like a hater (seriously, i've always loved TWI and their games, and probably will forever), but ever since they introduced their live-update thingy it looks like they are having way too much fun tweaking the hell out of little values instead of showing us some progress (bigger updates).

No hate intended, I'm sure they're working hard over at TWI HQ and just don't show their work yet, but I'd love to finally welcome some bigger updates again.
 
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#6
Domi_y0 said:
...ever since they introduced their live-update thingy it looks like they are having way too much fun tweaking the hell out of little values instead of showing us some progress (bigger updates).
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Uh, dude. If they didn't have the live-update function you would be complaining that there are no updates and wondering where the big updates are, rather than complaining that they've done nothing but live updates and wondering where the big updates are. If you want proof, just look back to how many people were @&%#$ing about a lack of updates back before they introduced live updates. Now, those people are almost all silenced. This is no coincidence, matey.

As for where the extra grenades have gone, I'm guessing that Support's are gone for balance reasons (they're really good now), but I'm seriously hoping that Demo's come back when they do the re-work. Having only five quick-thrown grenades as an explosives expert perk is seriously not cool.
 
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#7
Ramare said:
Uh, dude. If they didn't have the live-update function you would be complaining that there are no updates and wondering where the big updates are, rather than complaining that they've done nothing but live updates and wondering where the big updates are. If you want proof, just look back to how many people were @&%#$ing about a lack of updates back before they introduced live updates. Now, those people are almost all silenced. This is no coincidence, matey.

As for where the extra grenades have gone, I'm guessing that Support's are gone for balance reasons (they're really good now), but I'm seriously hoping that Demo's come back when they do the re-work. Having only five quick-thrown grenades as an explosives expert perk is seriously not cool.
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Uh, "dude". No I would not be complaining. If you actually had read my post carefully you would have noted that I never complained about their live-update implemention. In fact, I think it is a great idea since this way they can tweak little numbers to balance said things without having to force all players to download an update via steam.

It's just that I'd love to see them push out bigger things more frequently. And yes I am clearly aware of the fact that bigger content takes time, and that little things such as balance adjustments have to be made just as well as bigger content updates.
 
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#8
Not just made alongside content, but performance tweaks and bugfixes generally must be done first. One of the reasons updates can take so long is that they must crush any bugs which interfere, on top of that creating new content creates a boatload of bugs too which also need squashing.

Any dev worth their salt, TW included, tend to fix bugs as the first priority. Think of it like room-clearing in a CQB setting, you cannot leave rooms unchecked behind you or you could end up surrounded and the whole mission/your skull is busted.

On-topic however, I agree that Demo needs more grenades. I would say the same for SUP but it seems they want to separate SUP from nade specialty and I'm okay with that (never quite understood it once Demo appeared). Don't get me wrong though, I'd be open to SUP getting 'em too, but to me that depends on whether SUP will get a Demo/Zerk style rework (in my opinion all perks besides ones already done/planned should each go through this long process).

Demo's +5 ammo bonus should apply to nades. His dynamite can be used as much as any other Demo weapon which is unique to the perk currently, I think having 10 nades may be a great solution and allows for a decent (if not potentially dangerous) way to protect yourself on RPG/C4 loadouts.
 
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#9
Take it from someone who kited Offices with the spawn rate cranked up to 45. Extra nades were stupidly overpowered for two reasons:

1. Damage bonus. I have to say the support's nades being stronger is a bit unusual. Why did he have that? It was one of those old stats that was simply carried over from the mod for tradition's sake.

2. Grenade chaining. One explosive could set off others in the area. This was the big one, for it did two things: made the otherwise TRASH demo viable, and propelled the support into the top tier alongside the sharpshooter and zerk. A support specialist could easily solo all six fp spawns in wave 10 without any sort of assistance from anyone else, owing to the famous nade + hunting shotgun combo, via grenade chaining.

Now, going back to KF2. A five grenade limit allows for more versatility among the perks; not only that, receiving a guaranteed grenade for every ammo box (as opposed to KF1's 10% chance) offers some much needed freedom of use with the bloody things, because in KF1 grenades were saved for VERY specific scenarios. Trying to use them on trash was a waste, as the zeds would simply path around it, and sirens in KF1 would actively scream at nades on the ground (they don't do this in 2, if you've noticed).

If anyone was going to get a grenade upgrade, it should be demo. But here's the balance kicker, and I like this idea because it is an actual dilemma of choice for good demo players: they must pick between the perk skill Spare Grenades or On Perk. What would you want? More firepower, or that ability to stun fps?

Or that was how I felt, until demo recently received his grossly unwarranted ammo buff (27 for a C4? TWI plz). Now I'm not so certain even demo should receive a grenade bonus.
 
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#10
Domi_y0 said:
Uh, "dude". No I would not be complaining. If you actually had read my post carefully you would have noted that I never complained about their live-update implemention. In fact, I think it is a great idea since this way they can tweak little numbers to balance said things without having to force all players to download an update via steam.

It's just that I'd love to see them push out bigger things more frequently. And yes I am clearly aware of the fact that bigger content takes time, and that little things such as balance adjustments have to be made just as well as bigger content updates.
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Sorry brother, it's hard to tell tone on the internet so I just assumed that you were whining rather than being wistful. And it isn't because I didn't read your post "carefully" (whatever that means) because I just looked back and read your comment again, and thinking about it without the added context from your reply I got the same feeling from it I did the first time. It isn't a big deal now that we've identified that this is merely a misunderstanding. It can be shockingly easy to misinterpret tone and intention from text anyway, so no hard feelings, eh?

Anyway, yes, the live update system is great, I agree. But, I think that the live update system is actually making them take less time to bring out big patches (as hard as that may be to believe) rather than making them take more time.
 
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#11
Ryno5660 said:
I would say the same for SUP but it seems they want to separate SUP from nade specialty and I'm okay with that
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which is strange, since Support has a Grenade Damage Bonus. maybe it'll disappear for something else in the future, but it's there now. *shrugs*

Gallic_Taffer said:
Grenade chaining.

receiving a guaranteed grenade for every ammo box (as opposed to KF1's 10% chance) offers some much needed freedom of use with the bloody things


If anyone was going to get a grenade upgrade, it should be demo. But here's the balance kicker, and I like this idea because it is an actual dilemma of choice for good demo players: they must pick between the perk skill Spare Grenades or On Perk. What would you want? More firepower, or that ability to stun fps?

Or that was how I felt, until demo recently received his grossly unwarranted ammo buff (27 for a C4? TWI plz). Now I'm not so certain even demo should receive a grenade bonus.
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which, since you mentioned Sirens not actively attacking Explosives (which i'm... not... jerking off too... i mean what? i didn't say anything. nothing to see here.), also should (even though i'm sure we all know, but just incase, yno) mention that Grenades don't chain in Killing Floor 2.
since it's certainly a big difference!

indeed, not being able to carry a whole ton of them, but... being able to reliably get more from Ammo Boxes means you can use Grenades without worrying that you're wasting them and need to save them for an absolute emergency.
meters usage in a specific time frame, but lets you use them more often in general.

that would be a good choice too, more Firepower vs more security from more available CC.
27 Units for C4 is pretty silly to me as well. you get a lot of death from each one, i don't see it.
for the others, not quite as universal. the M79 has... a lot of Ammo now, not sure what to think. a few extra RPG's, that does let you use RPG's more than only exclusively on Heavies? same vein as the Grenades, i think. having a bit extra to let you use them more throughout the game, without having to save them only for Heavies.
 
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#12
Gallic_Taffer said:
Take it from someone who kited Offices with the spawn rate cranked up to 45. Extra nades were stupidly overpowered for two reasons:

1. Damage bonus. I have to say the support's nades being stronger is a bit unusual. Why did he have that? It was one of those old stats that was simply carried over from the mod for tradition's sake.
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Yea I'm really against this. Why does the support have bonus damage from grenades? We have a demolitionist, the extra damage on nades was added in just because there wasn't any perks related to explosives, but was kept after demo was added for no justifiable reason and the same goes for the extra explosives carrying. Sure he would be extremely weak and have nothing to do without them but theres always a better change. So my thoughts are on to make a split between support of being a multiple trash killing perk that has plenty of ammo or a single target high damage killer with low ammo.
 
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#15
Last time I checked, it actually applies to all Gunslinger weapon (knife and grenade included). But, with knife/grenade, you don't loose your stack even if you miss the "head".

Also, it does not only impact headshot. If you have a +60% stack, and you hit the body, you will do +50% on a body shot.

This is basically a "bonus damage" for all gunslinger weapon (which applies even if you hit the body or use grenade/knife).

By the way, Bonebreaker (+20%) also affects your grenade.
 
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#17
Domi_y0 said:
I do not want to sound like a hater (seriously, i've always loved TWI and their games, and probably will forever), but ever since they introduced their live-update thingy it looks like they are having way too much fun tweaking the hell out of little values instead of showing us some progress (bigger updates).

No hate intended, I'm sure they're working hard over at TWI HQ and just don't show their work yet, but I'd love to finally welcome some bigger updates again.
Click to expand...

The quick tweaks of little values were what many had asked for.

It HAS been a while since the last big update. But...i guess that makes sense?
 
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